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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/18/2017 7:42:26 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		I think your option 2 means that neither you, nor your opponent would go for war... yet
If that is what you really meant, then I suggest you define the conditions for maintaining peace and/ or to start a full war

(in reply to Drakanel)
Post #: 1051
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/18/2017 7:50:04 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I think your option 2 means that neither you, nor your opponent would go for war... yet
If that is what you really meant, then I suggest you define the conditions for maintaining peace and/ or to start a full war



Turning a blind eye to the Soviet activation will not help Japan as the benefit obtained by the Chinese forces is automatic and permanent.

Alfred

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 1052
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/18/2017 7:56:10 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		In AI games active Soviets still do not share supply with Chinese. My China is struggling while Alma-Ata road is open. Urumchi cannot pull Soviet supply.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 1053
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/18/2017 8:49:25 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		I look at it as fortunes of war.....certainly conflicts have started with about as much intent in the past & it does add an element to the game that we don't see very often.

Heck, I'd just love to see what happens - it's only a game, after all.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 1054
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/18/2017 8:53:13 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		At least in head to head they do share. Not immediately after activiation, takes 2 turns or so to get supply fro Alma Ata to Wasu.

Hartwig

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 1055
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/18/2017 11:38:40 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		I vote for option 2. Stalin didn't want a war with Japan and moved many resources to fight the Germans at the gates of Moscow, at this point he would ignore this Japanese mistake.

(in reply to Drakanel)
Post #: 1056
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 3:09:20 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		If there was a save before you hit endsave it is easy for Japan to just change that one TF to do not unload or send to a different hex...quite a challenge for the Allied player to remember all of his moves or not be tempted to avert some disaster..even Mother Theresa could not do it

Even the ENIAC Mk III would forget something and in any event, the combat replay will be different just because of the Japanese turn change...."butterfly wings"

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 1057
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 3:12:38 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		An Allied human player will doubtless get supply to China via Mongolia-Manchuria, even if only via road hexes. It will be 100x more efficient than airlifting from Burma

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1058
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 3:58:05 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		No decision for about a week I guess...as Obvert is vacationing without a computer.

So, I think it will boil down to war with the Soviets....

or redo the turns.

Being the glutton for punishment that I am...I am thinking war with the Soviets. I got this kind message from Germany you see....they really want my help.

Be a short game I fear, but fun! Totally screws Japans plans I fear...but such is war.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1059
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:21:48 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Really a different war...biplanes versus Nates and Claudes I guess. Probably very little pilot training will be done with fighters...well, on the job training.

Have to revamp r&d pretty much as I wonder if I could make 1944 without losing.








Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1060
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:23:48 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

No decision for about a week I guess...as Obvert is vacationing without a computer.

So, I think it will boil down to war with the Soviets....

or redo the turns.

Being the glutton for punishment that I am...I am thinking war with the Soviets. I got this kind message from Germany you see....they really want my help.

Be a short game I fear, but fun! Totally screws Japans plans I fear...but such is war.



Be good for readership and you don't have to worry about all those Franks and Sams.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 6/19/2017 4:24:23 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1061
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:29:37 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Mig3 is super nasty.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/19/2017 4:30:01 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1062
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:33:46 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

No decision for about a week I guess...as Obvert is vacationing without a computer.

So, I think it will boil down to war with the Soviets....

or redo the turns.

Being the glutton for punishment that I am...I am thinking war with the Soviets. I got this kind message from Germany you see....they really want my help.

Be a short game I fear, but fun! Totally screws Japans plans I fear...but such is war.



Be good for readership and you don't have to worry about all those Franks and Sams.


I can get Franks for sure, I think. Sams? I guess it depends if B17s & 24s show up at Vlad. So cutting the supply line to Vlad would be super critical. NJP has done this recently, but not so early. Neither did Radar...I think his AAR was taming the bear.

But this will end badly, as it is scenario one.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1063
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:46:14 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Fast as Hell and very durable, with armor...weak gun and short range but would be formidable to sweep against.

I think you will have to take Valdivostock to deny them the base. Best move fast before the Siberian rifle divisions starrt to fill out.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1064
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:54:44 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Can't figure out how to show Soviet tanks only without loading a game as Allies.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1065
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 4:57:44 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If Eric is enjoying the game and looking for a hard-fought match that will unfold over years, he might wish to avoid Soviet activation. Activation offers the prospect of novelty but also promises to cut the game short. You may both enjoy avoiding that kind of deviation from the norm.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1066
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 5:00:43 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		The Soviet '43 Sapper and Calry squads are beasts...so are the '44 Motor and Para squads

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1067
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 5:09:22 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		By the end of June '42, a Soviet Tank Brigade will have 96 crappy T-26's and T-7's with pretty good motorized infantry

A Soviet Rifle Div will have 399 AV...high 50's experience..even with no training..and just a ton of arty and mortars and 30x45mm AT guns. Yikes.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 1068
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 5:14:19 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If Eric is enjoying the game and looking for a hard-fought match that will unfold over years, he might wish to avoid Soviet activation. Activation offers the prospect of novelty but also promises to cut the game short. You may both enjoy avoiding that kind of deviation from the norm.


Oh, I think it would be hard fought, and he won't AV Japan prior to 44 I think -- but I know what you mean.

OTH, doesn't every Allied play really want to give the Soviets a try?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 1069
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 6:39:34 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
OTH, doesn't every Allied play really want to give the Soviets a try?

You are not ready yet. No forts on the border, no airforce at hand to quickly extinguish his, no plan for cutting off Soviet supplies. What is the interest in seeing you steamrolled from Manchukuo plains and then steadily bombarded in Korean forests.

There are several AARs with early Soviet actovation, last one by njp. But all of them had non-trivial preparations. It is necessary to contain Russians at start, else runaway tanks can give you a lot of grief


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Can't figure out how to show Soviet tanks only without loading a game as Allies.

Tanks are there in the vehicle database part although with no meaningful sorting and nation selection. About 200 of each type in the pools. In 42 TOE they are a bit more crappy than your light Types, but there is a whole lot of them

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 6/19/2017 8:21:19 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1070
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 7:36:51 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		You can't base any non-Soviet aircraft at bases within the Soviet Union. If he captures bases in Manchuria with Soviet forces, those are fair game. So you don't have to worry about 4E's in the USSR.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 1071
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 7:59:50 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Would be pretty funny if Imperial Japanese domination of the Pacific were thwarted by ... a lazy clerk carelessly miscopying a destination for a few crates of supplies. This would be fascinating to watch, just like a train wreck in slow motion.

Trying to imagine how this incident would have played out with the real people in charge of Japan and the USSR ... no way would the Soviets be ready for anything significant for a full year until they finally broke the German army and began to turn the tide at Stalingrad. You could even make the case that the war with the Germans was far more pressing all the way through 43 with Kursk and the Soviet counter-offensive into Eastern Ukraine. By 44, maybe, the Soviets would begin some opportunistic calculations and jump in if they thought the Japanese were going down.

Maybe you two could try it both ways? If you're itching to play out a Pacific War with full USSR participation ... go for it, but keep a save from just before the mistake, so you could play a more conventional Pacific War later.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1072
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 8:01:59 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Mig3 is super nasty.





Look at Soviet pilot pools and replacement rates. I think that may cheer you up a bit.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1073
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 8:38:51 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You can't base any non-Soviet aircraft at bases within the Soviet Union. If he captures bases in Manchuria with Soviet forces, those are fair game. So you don't have to worry about 4E's in the USSR.


So what if the allied player uses PP to change the base from USSR to US? Such a thing might be the best 500 PP spent in the history of all WITP campaigns.

Does it get supplies from the USSR or do the allies have to ship them in?

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1074
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 8:39:50 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		What oil and resource capability does the USSR have that you can capture?

'Can' being the key word...

_____________________________


(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 1075
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/19/2017 10:14:38 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You can't base any non-Soviet aircraft at bases within the Soviet Union. If he captures bases in Manchuria with Soviet forces, those are fair game. So you don't have to worry about 4E's in the USSR.


So what if the allied player uses PP to change the base from USSR to US? Such a thing might be the best 500 PP spent in the history of all WITP campaigns.

Does it get supplies from the USSR or do the allies have to ship them in?


It goes by country code, so it still doesn't work.

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 1076
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/20/2017 1:05:21 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have to say I am leaning towards fight the Soviets...

Obvert is fine either way and OTH we would endeavor to recreate the identical turn with just the once exception on Japan's side...but Obvert probably couldn't do nearly as well recreating his turn should we decide instead to redo the turn.

So I will take a week and look at it...and see if Japan wants to tackle the Bear. I am definitely leaning towards this as it would make for a very different game. Perhaps, even surprising.

Obvert is on vacation so no time lost in making the decision.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/20/2017 1:07:01 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1077
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/20/2017 2:06:01 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		MIG 3 was not a very good fighter in reality and pilot quality was very poor, as most had been moved to face the German onslaught. Not sure if the game has given it that much account as the Soviets stripped the far West to counter the German invasion.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1078
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/20/2017 2:43:57 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Looking pretty fugly, to be quite honest. No great unit withdrawls till July of 42; no airplane withdraws at all; half of the starting 2000 planes are fighters.

Looks super tough and very suicidal. And this isn't even any of of the Navy which will be problematic too.


I like it! Maybe they aren't this strong, since it comes from a scenario 2 start...and not scenario one.

Graphic got screwed up a little, hope you can read it.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 6/20/2017 2:44:33 AM >

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 1079
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 6/20/2017 2:48:27 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Plane builds...






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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1080
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