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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 8:55:22 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Looks like they swapped out the 1:48 model of the FW 190D-9 listed (number 3 on the list) for a 1:36 model between October 2016 and present. I didn't see the HA-152, but they've got a lot of models.

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 8:57:34 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Andre , they seriously need your contributions. Might O suggest a P-3C update II from a NAS Brunswick , PATWING five , say VP-8 or maybe VP-92?


Settle down there, tiger. We'll get back to USN stuff before long.

ETA: Besides, these guys are light years ahead of my modeling skills. I wouldn't do the P-3C justice, Steve.

ETA II: PATWING 5? VP-8 or VP-92? Never. Those guys eat their young.

ETA III:

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 6/27/2017 9:07:41 PM >

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:06:07 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Here's another for today. Enjoy.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 123
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:06:35 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		OK, didnt see the Fw190D-9 acknowledgement.
Model based on an aircraft built at Mimetall, Erfurt.

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Post #: 124
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:08:08 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Here's another for today. Enjoy.




Hedgehog release.
Wonderful picture

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Post #: 125
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:09:13 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Here's another for today. Enjoy.


Hedgehog release.
Wonderful picture


You mean painting? Yes. Nicely done. Aye-Hedgehog release. Guess the ship?

Hint: The Hedgehog system was carried on a variety of Allied ships.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 6/27/2017 9:10:26 PM >

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:09:50 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		USS England attacking with hedgehogs?

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:11:53 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

USS England attacking with hedgehogs?


Yes. Alas, my "Hint" to throw off the dogs onto other Allied ships didn't rattle you.

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Post #: 128
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:12:08 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		DE-635.


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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:13:44 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		There was only one ship to achieve her record, and It was obviously one of her class. Who else could it be? Even Ernie King said "There will always be a England in the US Navy".

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:14:20 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
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From: Mordor Illlinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

USS England attacking with hedgehogs?


Yes. Alas, my "Hint" to throw off the dogs onto other Allied ships didn't rattle you.

No, you actually threw this "dog" a bone.

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:15:06 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

DE-635.



Yes. She sure had a helluva couple weeks in May 1944, didn't she?

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:17:30 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		Actually England has a place of fondness in my heart , and my spouse's family. Her Uncle , MM3 Oland Paradis was aboard USS LST 342 off Tulagi when RO-106 torpedoed her. England got her.

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:18:32 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		Got to run. Have fun with the other kids Andre. Try and play nice!

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 9:19:26 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Not a plane, boring.


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Post #: 135
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/27/2017 10:36:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		More planes tomorrow Jeff.

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 3:10:55 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		It's been resolved now, but the whole Ta-152/Fw-190D thing. It gets confusing late war. The 190D was a stopgap design that put the Jumo 213 into the standard Fw-190 airframe. They needed to lengthen the fuselage, but essentially did the bare minimum to get the job done. A few late Ds that didn't see very large production numbers had enclosed wheel wells, but most had the back-end of the engine visible through the wheel well because they had to remove the bulkhead separating the wheels from the engine bay to shoehorn in the engine.

As production went on Ds and Ta-152s swapped parts. About halfway through production most Ds got the Ta-152 canopy and at the end the Ds got the Ta-152 tail. At that point in the war, things were so chaotic many Ds were completed with bare metal undersides even though the Germans didn't have Alclad and the aluminum began to corrode almost immediately.

The Ta-152H used the same Jumo 213 engine as the Fw-190D, so the noses looked the same. But where the 190D had the 190A wing with slight modifications, the Ta-152 had an all new wing. Kurt Tank had tried since the 1930s to get an allocation of Daimler 600 series engines for the Fw-190. He knew all along that combining the Daimler engine with the Fw-190 airframe would produce an amazing fighter, but Messerschmitt got most of the Daimler engine production because they were favored by the regime. Kurt Tank finally got a handful of DB-605 engines at the end and built the Ta-152C prototypes, but it was too late.

Focke-Wulf had already shook up things when they used a bomber engine in a fighter with the Fw-190. The BMW 801 engine was so good in that application it created a shortage of the BMW engines and bombers had to make do with other engines for the most part. The BV-141 recon plane lost out to the Fw-189 in part because it used one BMW-801 engine and those were becoming a limited commodity and the Fw-189 used Argus engines.

I think the Bf-109 would have gone out of production in favor of more Fw-190s if they had mated the Daimler 600 series to the Fw-190 airframe earlier. It's one of those cases where we can be glad politics trumped the right answer many times in Nazi Germany. If the Ta-152C had essentially replaced the Bf-109 in 1943, the air war over Germany would have been a fair bit tougher.

Bill

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 3:26:06 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I'm counting 24 hedgehog bombs in that painting, but I thought the weapon only fired 18? I'll have to do some checking.

As for the ship identity, the transom stern gives her away as American, but I was thinking one of the big PGs rather than a DE because all the guns at the stern look like light AA weapons rather than the 3" most DEs had (a few had 5").

EDIT: Wiki confirms the hedgehog had 24 bombs.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 6/28/2017 3:30:33 AM >

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 3:30:52 AM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I'm counting 24 hedgehog bombs in that painting, but I thought the weapon only fired 18? I'll have to do some checking.


All the pictures I've seen have 6 rows of 4 projectiles each.

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Post #: 139
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:10:44 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Today's entry. Name that plane.




Attachment (1)

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:16:11 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Actually England has a place of fondness in my heart , and my spouse's family. Her Uncle , MM3 Oland Paradis was aboard USS LST 342 off Tulagi when RO-106 torpedoed her. England got her.


The Wiki on her last sub kill is amusing-as much as such things can be 'amusing'. You can get a sense of the frustration of the other ASW ships as they send her in and she immediately scores:

RO-105

The three destroyer escorts reached Manus at 1500 on 27 May. After taking on fuel, provisions, and ammunition, they sailed at 1800 28 May with Spangler (DE-696) to rejoin the search. Hazelwood detected RO-105 on RADAR at 0156 on 30 May and missed with a depth charge attack. George and Raby joined Hazelwood and made sixteen Hedgehog and depth charge attacks over a period of 25 hours. RO-105 came up for air at 0310 on 31 May and was immediately detected by George and Raby. RO-105 stayed directly between the two destroyer escorts for five minutes before submerging so neither Raby nor George could fire without endangering the other. Sequential Hedgehog attacks were then made by Raby, George, Raby, and Spangler. All missed. Division Commander Hains then radioed, "Oh, hell. Go ahead, England." [6] England then scored six to ten detonations in a Hedgehog attack at 0736. A major explosion followed at 0741 and a fountain of oil and debris appeared on the surface.[7]

This anti-submarine warfare performance was never matched in World War II, and won for England a Presidential Unit Citation, and the assurance from the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral E. J. King, "There'll always be an England in the United States Navy." His pledge was fulfilled on 6 October 1960, when DLG-22 was assigned the name England.

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:27:13 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Today's entry. Name that plane.




P-4M Mercator from Martin.

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Post #: 142
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:29:14 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		Actually it's a P-4M1q to be really specific, I completely missed the RADOME. Time for more coffee.

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Post #: 143
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:34:39 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Actually England has a place of fondness in my heart , and my spouse's family. Her Uncle , MM3 Oland Paradis was aboard USS LST 342 off Tulagi when RO-106 torpedoed her. England got her.


The Wiki on her last sub kill is amusing-as much as such things can be 'amusing'. You can get a sense of the frustration of the other ASW ships as they send her in and she immediately scores:

RO-105

The three destroyer escorts reached Manus at 1500 on 27 May. After taking on fuel, provisions, and ammunition, they sailed at 1800 28 May with Spangler (DE-696) to rejoin the search. Hazelwood detected RO-105 on RADAR at 0156 on 30 May and missed with a depth charge attack. George and Raby joined Hazelwood and made sixteen Hedgehog and depth charge attacks over a period of 25 hours. RO-105 came up for air at 0310 on 31 May and was immediately detected by George and Raby. RO-105 stayed directly between the two destroyer escorts for five minutes before submerging so neither Raby nor George could fire without endangering the other. Sequential Hedgehog attacks were then made by Raby, George, Raby, and Spangler. All missed. Division Commander Hains then radioed, "Oh, hell. Go ahead, England." [6] England then scored six to ten detonations in a Hedgehog attack at 0736. A major explosion followed at 0741 and a fountain of oil and debris appeared on the surface.[7]

This anti-submarine warfare performance was never matched in World War II, and won for England a Presidential Unit Citation, and the assurance from the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral E. J. King, "There'll always be an England in the United States Navy." His pledge was fulfilled on 6 October 1960, when DLG-22 was assigned the name England.



My guess is that England had a really good SONAR man at work. To get that degree of accuracy with old style active SONAR is hard. To get it accurate as to be able to score 1st try , especially in "blue-out" conditions (the water really screwed up by previous depth charge attacks) is to say the least , impressive. This sounds like a very talented skipper , actually listening to an equally talented SONAR man.

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RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:40:44 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Actually it's a P-4M1q to be really specific, I completely missed the RADOME. Time for more coffee.


13 minutes? I'd say you need more coffee!

Yes. Martin P4M-1Q.

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Post #: 145
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:42:55 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Actually England has a place of fondness in my heart , and my spouse's family. Her Uncle , MM3 Oland Paradis was aboard USS LST 342 off Tulagi when RO-106 torpedoed her. England got her.


The Wiki on her last sub kill is amusing-as much as such things can be 'amusing'. You can get a sense of the frustration of the other ASW ships as they send her in and she immediately scores:

RO-105

The three destroyer escorts reached Manus at 1500 on 27 May. After taking on fuel, provisions, and ammunition, they sailed at 1800 28 May with Spangler (DE-696) to rejoin the search. Hazelwood detected RO-105 on RADAR at 0156 on 30 May and missed with a depth charge attack. George and Raby joined Hazelwood and made sixteen Hedgehog and depth charge attacks over a period of 25 hours. RO-105 came up for air at 0310 on 31 May and was immediately detected by George and Raby. RO-105 stayed directly between the two destroyer escorts for five minutes before submerging so neither Raby nor George could fire without endangering the other. Sequential Hedgehog attacks were then made by Raby, George, Raby, and Spangler. All missed. Division Commander Hains then radioed, "Oh, hell. Go ahead, England." [6] England then scored six to ten detonations in a Hedgehog attack at 0736. A major explosion followed at 0741 and a fountain of oil and debris appeared on the surface.[7]

This anti-submarine warfare performance was never matched in World War II, and won for England a Presidential Unit Citation, and the assurance from the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral E. J. King, "There'll always be an England in the United States Navy." His pledge was fulfilled on 6 October 1960, when DLG-22 was assigned the name England.



My guess is that England had a really good SONAR man at work. To get that degree of accuracy with old style active SONAR is hard. To get it accurate as to be able to score 1st try , especially in "blue-out" conditions (the water really screwed up by previous depth charge attacks) is to say the least , impressive. This sounds like a very talented skipper , actually listening to an equally talented SONAR man.


Who was actually the one to 'pull the trigger' on the Hedgehog in these cases? He/they need to be taken into consideration as well. The SONAR operator wasn't the one, was he? I also doubt the Captain would order the firing per se. Isn't there another link in the chain that's overlooked?

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Post #: 146
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:47:59 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Actually England has a place of fondness in my heart , and my spouse's family. Her Uncle , MM3 Oland Paradis was aboard USS LST 342 off Tulagi when RO-106 torpedoed her. England got her.


The Wiki on her last sub kill is amusing-as much as such things can be 'amusing'. You can get a sense of the frustration of the other ASW ships as they send her in and she immediately scores:

RO-105

The three destroyer escorts reached Manus at 1500 on 27 May. After taking on fuel, provisions, and ammunition, they sailed at 1800 28 May with Spangler (DE-696) to rejoin the search. Hazelwood detected RO-105 on RADAR at 0156 on 30 May and missed with a depth charge attack. George and Raby joined Hazelwood and made sixteen Hedgehog and depth charge attacks over a period of 25 hours. RO-105 came up for air at 0310 on 31 May and was immediately detected by George and Raby. RO-105 stayed directly between the two destroyer escorts for five minutes before submerging so neither Raby nor George could fire without endangering the other. Sequential Hedgehog attacks were then made by Raby, George, Raby, and Spangler. All missed. Division Commander Hains then radioed, "Oh, hell. Go ahead, England." [6] England then scored six to ten detonations in a Hedgehog attack at 0736. A major explosion followed at 0741 and a fountain of oil and debris appeared on the surface.[7]

This anti-submarine warfare performance was never matched in World War II, and won for England a Presidential Unit Citation, and the assurance from the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral E. J. King, "There'll always be an England in the United States Navy." His pledge was fulfilled on 6 October 1960, when DLG-22 was assigned the name England.



My guess is that England had a really good SONAR man at work. To get that degree of accuracy with old style active SONAR is hard. To get it accurate as to be able to score 1st try , especially in "blue-out" conditions (the water really screwed up by previous depth charge attacks) is to say the least , impressive. This sounds like a very talented skipper , actually listening to an equally talented SONAR man.


Who was actually the one to 'pull the trigger' on the Hedgehog in these cases? He/they need to be taken into consideration as well. The SONAR operator wasn't the one, was he? I also doubt the Captain would order the firing per se. Isn't there another link in the chain that's overlooked?

I don't know for certain , but generally the SONAR operator gave the info, the skipper made the call and someone else would "press the button" , maybe a gunners mate , maybe a junior officer (as portrayed in "The Bedford Incident"). Unless of course there was a senior officer aboard.

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Post #: 147
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:51:56 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		In one of my favorite "underground" Navy films of the 1950's "Launch 'em" there's a great scene where the skipper of the CV (Hancock)orders an alarm pulled and the 1st class stops the seaman from pulling it , points to his chevrons , then pulls it himself (It's a silent movie). Just one more "sight gag" in an absolutely hilarious movie that the USN did it's best to make sure never saw the light of day.

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Post #: 148
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 1:53:46 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Actually it's a P-4M1q to be really specific, I completely missed the RADOME. Time for more coffee.


13 minutes? I'd say you need more coffee!

Yes. Martin P4M-1Q.

What do you mean 13 minutes? Oh , you think I hang around all day waiting for your post. Sorry. I was checking my email while waiting for my other computer to boot up. And looked.

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Post #: 149
RE: OT: Name that plane / ship - 6/28/2017 2:10:27 PM   
DRF99


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		This YouTube video shows a gunner turning a crank to actually launch the bomblets. No doubt after getting the fire command.

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Post #: 150
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