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Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s WitE?

 
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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> The Operational Art of War IV >> Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s WitE? Page: [1]
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Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s WitE? - 6/25/2017 5:54:43 AM   
jimhatama

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/18/2016
Status: offline 		Can someone explain in detail?
Post #: 1
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/25/2017 12:30:21 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		The wargame "War in the East" is set in only one place.

The wargame "TOAW" is set in any location around the world and time going back about 200 years
.

(in reply to jimhatama)
Post #: 2
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/25/2017 1:09:51 PM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Larry Fulkerson of this forum has extensively played both WitE and TOAW IV D21 (i.e. Barbarossa) and may be the best person to answer.

I purchased WitE when it came out and found it hard to get into. Only one theater and most of the "Road to Moscow" scenarios start on 22 June but end later depending on the objective (Smolensk, Kiev, Moscow, etc.). I was never comfortable with the time, distance scale in WitE.

And of course, the number of scenarios, time periods, scale in TOAW make a totally different game.

Larry?

Cheers



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RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/29/2017 11:05:27 AM   
TheDudelyLlama


Posts: 14
Joined: 11/8/2006
From: Directly under the earths sun..... now!!
Status: offline 		I have TOAW 3 and WITE (and WITW). I enjoy all of the games and they are all enjoyable for most people who enjoy playing this subject matter. One thing that did annoy me somewhat about WITE was the gaminess of the turns. People could micromanageme the movement and battle selection down to a fine art much like chess openings. This was ok if you were someone who had put in as much micromanagement study into the movement of individual units etc. for the first 2-3 turns. But it was not just a disadvantage if you did not know the "opening moves" as well, it was almost pointless playing someone whom was a higher study of these openings. War is about the unknown, contingency, being able to adapt because your plan doesn't survive contact with the enemy, etc. Not practicing and refining your opening and counter opening moves to a fine art like chess.

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like WITE and will continue to play and enjoy it. I'm just a lot more ruthless in screening people that I play now because of this.

Some Dude

< Message edited by Some Dude -- 6/29/2017 11:08:18 AM >

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 4
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/29/2017 11:44:25 AM   
jimhatama

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/18/2016
Status: offline 		And how exactly WITE turns differ from TOAW? What makes them less gamey?

(in reply to TheDudelyLlama)
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RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/29/2017 1:52:44 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jimhatama

And how exactly WITE turns differ from TOAW? What makes them less gamey?


Let's see. They're both round. They both grow on trees. They are both considered fruit. Both are sweet when ripe. One is red most of the time. One is orange most of the time. One you peel. The other you don't have to. Most importantly they both taste different from one another.

Why do people insist on asking how a game compares to another when they are both entirely different things. Yeah they both have counters and maps and you move stuff. But they are different after those basics. If you are a GG Fanboi you'll say his games are better. If you are a TOAW fanboi you'll say that is better. Just buy TOAW (it doesn't cost $80.00) and play it. If you don't like it you can probably sell it to someone who will like it and recoup some of your money. If you want to ask how they differ you'll find a boatload of opinions that have already been given by doing a search. Find the one that suits you
best and go with it.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 6/29/2017 1:55:44 PM >

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http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to jimhatama)
Post #: 6
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/29/2017 2:13:28 PM   
Tamas

 

Posts: 985
Joined: 1/7/2001
Status: offline 		If you are interested in how TOAW's turn system works in detail (it is quite different from other turn based wargames, as it tries remove/minimise the unrealistic aspects of turn-based play), I suggest you read the Battlefield Time Stamps thread on this forum where it is explained.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 7
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/30/2017 6:21:14 AM   
Cfant

 

Posts: 473
Joined: 12/12/2010
Status: offline 		WitE is a pure IGOYOUGO-game. It's more complex and detailled as Panzer General, but it plays the same way. Then there are WEGO-Games like AGEOD-games oder WitP. TOAW is between these and something very unique. Every game-turn is split into subturns. If you attack in one subturn, but the fight goes on very long, it effects all other units too. It adds much more uncertainity to the game. If you don't like that, take WitE. If you want this thrill, take TOAW.

WitE is about the Eastern Front only. TOAW has dozens of scenarios about dozens of conflicts from about 1800 to the future. Even hypothetical ones. So if Ostfront ist NOT your only interest, you should keep that in mind.

(in reply to Tamas)
Post #: 8
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 6/30/2017 11:55:21 PM   
wurger54

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Texas
Status: offline 		My TOAW observations are based on an earlier version, but I always thought it was slick, well designed, playable product. I always enjoyed it. WitE is more like a massive study of the Ost front forced into a game. Certain aspects test my skills of comprehension. Now I love WitE! It is one of the games I think I'll always have going via PBEM, but it can be a beast. I am looking forward to the new TAOW also.

_____________________________

Wurger

(in reply to jimhatama)
Post #: 9
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 7/1/2017 9:22:18 AM   
TheDudelyLlama


Posts: 14
Joined: 11/8/2006
From: Directly under the earths sun..... now!!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jimhatama

And how exactly WITE turns differ from TOAW? What makes them less gamey?


Follow up on what Tamas said.

(in reply to jimhatama)
Post #: 10
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 7/2/2017 6:40:50 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Some Dude

I have TOAW 3 and WITE (and WITW). I enjoy all of the games and they are all enjoyable for most people who enjoy playing this subject matter. One thing that did annoy me somewhat about WITE was the gaminess of the turns. People could micromanageme the movement and battle selection down to a fine art much like chess openings. This was ok if you were someone who had put in as much micromanagement study into the movement of individual units etc. for the first 2-3 turns. But it was not just a disadvantage if you did not know the "opening moves" as well, it was almost pointless playing someone whom was a higher study of these openings. War is about the unknown, contingency, being able to adapt because your plan doesn't survive contact with the enemy, etc. Not practicing and refining your opening and counter opening moves to a fine art like chess.

Again, don't get me wrong. I really like WITE and will continue to play and enjoy it. I'm just a lot more ruthless in screening people that I play now because of this.

Some Dude


Completely agree, in a wargame I want to play the history and the strategy not just fight a conavaluted game system.


_____________________________

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“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

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(in reply to TheDudelyLlama)
Post #: 11
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 7/5/2017 1:15:48 AM   
winkr7

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 1/9/2015
Status: offline 		In one you can blow up specific bridges and you need to rebuild them. In the other the AI lines its units up 6 deep right before the first blizzard.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 12
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 7/6/2017 2:57:54 PM   
stormbringer3

 

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
Status: offline 		Please elaborate, to which game does each of the above statements apply?
Thanks.

(in reply to winkr7)
Post #: 13
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 7/6/2017 5:25:47 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

Please elaborate, to which game does each of the above statements apply?
Thanks.


TOAW you can blow up bridges because there are roads. In WitE you can't blow up bridges because, well, there are no roads. In TOAW because you can blow up bridges you can also fix them. In WitE you can't fix bridges because there are no bridges because, well, there are no roads. One sec while I fire up my copy of WitE...ah there we go. Yeah I don't think you can blow up rail bridges either. You just destroy a rail line but you have to have a land unit do it. No air strikes on bridges, right? So in essence you can't blow up rail bridges either and thus cannot fix them because they don't get blown up.

As for the WitE AI lining up units six deep: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2605136 The very first post. Yeah it's not the AI but the AI does the exact same thing. This does not look like fun to me. You can look in the AARs and see the same thing over and over and over. And then in WitE units magically get teleported several hexes away as though Scotty was a madman with a teleportation device. What's with that?

Anyway, it's all a matter of opinion as to which you would like the most. But here's some incentive or anti incentive. WitE costs $80.00 unless you can catch it on sale for a few bucks less. Even then it's fairly steep. You can buy a couple of fun games with that. TOAW with literally hundreds of scenarios covering every theater from 1km per hex to 50km per hex (no WitE doesn't do that) and from mid 1800s to early 2000s (no WitE can't do that). And some other game of your choice. Maybe Graviteam's Mius Front game or Tunisia game.

Good luck in your choices.

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to stormbringer3)
Post #: 14
RE: Whats the main differences beetween this and Gary`s... - 8/20/2017 9:02:24 PM   
Champagne


Posts: 356
Joined: 9/28/2004
Status: offline 		I have played lots of GG WitE and lots of TOAW III. I have had lots of fun playing both.

But this is important: when I was having THE MOST fun playing one of these two games, it was almost always with TOAW.

_____________________________

Only the dead have seen the end of War.

-- Plato

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 15
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