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Alternate Rules - 4/24/2003 12:16:32 AM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		Dear Matrix,

Ive been looking on the web (mainly Grognard) at rule varients to enhance our Emires game (without making it too complex) and got to wondering if you had done the same and are adding a few of thse or some of your own?:eek:
Post #: 1
- 4/24/2003 7:09:53 AM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 564
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		jamo262,

I do believe that you've come to the right place. There are quite a few that have said that they've done exactly that.

Just hang around a while and you won't be disappointed. :)

_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 2
- 4/24/2003 11:54:06 PM   
Wynter

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 1/10/2003
From: Belgium
Status: offline 		We use the advanced naval rules in our EiA games. They certainly are worth introducing in your game as those rules make the naval phase more interesting.

Jeroen.

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 3
- 4/25/2003 1:10:04 PM   
oleb

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 10/18/2002
Status: offline 		The real EiA enhancement is Empires in Harm.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eih

I do hope that computer EiA will feature as much as possible from EiH, and since the map changes coincides with changes from EiA to EiH I`m optimistic.

_____________________________

Ktarn

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 4
- 4/25/2003 1:50:07 PM   
Dagfinn

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 1/20/2003
From: Western Norway
Status: offline 		What I'm realy hoping to see, is different scenarios.

Especialy the 1792 starting point.

_____________________________

In our darkest hours all the shades are gray

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 5
Cant wait - 4/26/2003 8:38:55 PM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		If Matrix get this right this could be the greatest most fun game ever. Anyone agree?:)

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 6
Yes, indeed. - 4/27/2003 11:13:37 AM   
Le Tondu


Posts: 564
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline 		We are all (I guess) holding our collective breaths right about now. I have no inside information or anything even close to it. I just feel that we're in for a pleasant surprise.

Now, if they'd only release some more information. :)

_____________________________

Vive l'Empereur!

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 7
- 4/27/2003 11:48:45 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Obviously, I'm with you all in this "hope" thing. I am (and have been) a little worried, however.

You may remember that this project started out, way back when, as a fresh look at strategic warfare during the Napoleonic era. I hoped then for something novel, something fresh, something that pointed a new direction.

Well.

What we have, more or less, is a port of a paper-and-cardboard game many years out of print and even more years aged from its design inception. I enjoyed EiA to some extent, but felt its imperfections and limitations as I became more familiar with it. The people I played it with got to the point where they were happier with other approaches to the subject (most notably AH's old War and Peace rendering, though the even older SPI monster covering the same subject had its fans, too). Our primary complaints? Awkwardness of play, a level of abstraction that removed the "feel" of command during the era, and mechanics that didn't convey much of the flavor of the period. In short, we pretty much got tired of EiA because it was too distant from the historical realities. It was, according to one former player, "Milton Bradley gaming with a whole bunch of extra rules."

I'm hoping ... just hoping ...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 8
- 4/27/2003 1:21:59 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		I'm with you Pasternakski.

But I am afraid it will be exactly what you said, a port of EiA into the computer. There is too strong of an "if it ain't EXACTLY EiA, I won't pay or play".

I would hope that there is at least some implimentation of the variants offered by the AFA rules, as well as simultaneous movement options as well. Better represent the armies of the period, integrate leadership down to corps level and improve the tactical combat at least.

But it will be the only game in town so I will pay and play.

And keep hoping that someday a game that is "as a fresh look at strategic warfare during the Napoleonic era" gets published.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 9
- 4/27/2003 2:20:36 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by denisonh
[B]I'm with you Pasternakski.

But I am afraid it will be exactly what you said, a port of EiA into the computer. There is too strong of an "if it ain't EXACTLY EiA, I won't pay or play".

I would hope that there is at least some implimentation of the variants offered by the AFA rules, as well as simultaneous movement options as well. Better represent the armies of the period, integrate leadership down to corps level and improve the tactical combat at least.

But it will be the only game in town so I will pay and play.

And keep hoping that someday a game that is "as a fresh look at strategic warfare during the Napoleonic era" gets published. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep. I got my plastic all poised and ready. Matrix need not worry, I'll be buying, after all, it's the only game in town.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 10
- 4/27/2003 8:58:14 PM   
jnier


Posts: 402
Joined: 2/18/2002
Status: offline 		I have mixed feeling about this issue. On the one hand, doing something fresh would be great, because, as has been pointed out EIA is not perfect and it's combat rules do not have the level of detail neccassary to capture the flavor of Naploenonic combat. All valid points.

On the other hand, EIA is a great game, with time-tested game mechanics. The mechanics aren't perfect, but they actually work, (which is more than you can say for many computer games) and they make the game a ton of fun.

My opinion on this is that ports of board games often turn out to be better computer games than a completly new game, because you don't have to invent new game mechanics. All you have to do with a port is program the game...not invent a new game. And unless you have very deep pockets and lots of time, its very hard to invent entirely new game mechanics and program these new game all at the same time. It can be done (UV is a good example), but it is very difficult and the fact that Computer EIA will be a port will increase the liklihood that we will get a playable (and fun) game.

After having been burned with previous strategic Napleonic flops (1813 being the best example), I have no problem with Matrix deciding to go the "safe" route with Computer EIA.

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 11
- 4/27/2003 10:03:46 PM   
jamo262


Posts: 82
Joined: 4/21/2003
From: Perth Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jnier
After having been burned with previous strategic Napleonic flops (1813 being the best example), I have no problem with Matrix deciding to go the "safe" route with Computer EIA. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes 1813 was quite an experience. "Basically it dosent work" was how one friend described it.

I think computer EIA could work well but there were a few problems with the basic game that were irksome. As far as being a simulation of war and politics in that era I rate supply (too easy) and the uncontrolled major powers rules as problem areas. And I hate it when Russia and England combine to sink the French in Port just for the hell of it

Also there were some things as regards combat that the game couldnt simulate. The surrender at Ulm,(although there is an optional surrender before battle rule somewhere) and Blucher rejoining Wellington after being defeated on the first day. Maybe its a question of scale. Can anyone devise a more stressful combat system than chit-picking?

Anyway I just noticed on the Grognard Website varients ranging
from the errata through to Empires in Harm that got me thinking a lot of people had been trying to improve on the game. The most elegant being perhaps the Monte & Beth varient (basically a composite).

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 12
- 4/28/2003 8:52:24 PM   
mmurray821

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 3/12/2003
Status: offline 		I agree that EiA has the potential to be a great game. I still love the board game and computer version would be great. However, Master of Orion 3 had the potential to be a great game too. What we got instead was a lobotomized zombie.

I still have hope for EiA though! :D

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 13
- 5/11/2003 9:47:43 AM   
JRichert

 

Posts: 55
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Memphis, TN
Status: offline 		What changes did EiH make to the map?

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 14
- 5/11/2003 11:17:43 PM   
oleb

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 10/18/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRichert
[B]What changes did EiH make to the map? [/B][/QUOTE]
Too many to list. They`ve added lots of minors in Germany and Italy, and a few areas as well. The former provinces of Georgia and Armenia has been divided into four new minors, and one new Turkish province, a strip of Persia has been added as well. Anatolia and some Russian provinces has been divided into more provinces.

You can download the map from the EiH Yahoogroup`s [URL=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eih/files/]file section[/URL]. Its the file called "Map2a.zip".
I`m not sure if the file section is open to the public, but membership is.

_____________________________

Ktarn

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 15
- 6/5/2003 6:52:38 PM   
Ragnar

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 3/6/2003
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ktarn
[B]
You can download the map from the EiH Yahoogroup`s [URL=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eih/files/]file section[/URL]. Its the file called "Map2a.zip".
I`m not sure if the file section is open to the public, but membership is. [/B][/QUOTE]

That's not the most recent map, though. Afaik, the're currently no reliable map that goes with the V4.0 of EiH. Still, that doesn't stop people from doing their own re-creations and modifications. Most of those have been moved to a new egroup due to filespace constraints: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eih-files/

Open membership, iirc. While taking a look, I suggest taking a look at EiH_1788-1816.gif Made by Waldek Gumienny and complete_map_v1.01.gif where someone (well, me, actually) took it upon himself to patch Bob Kraus´ Middle East map onto the European one, for those that wish to add Persia as a Major Power.

Like the game Matrix will eventually produce, EiH handles many things slightly different from EiA. Some things are better, some are not, but it's mostly a matter of opinion. However, it's still about as much fun to play as the original, so who cares?

I think the most recent attempt at Napoleonic Wargaming is "War and Peace" by Microids. It's a 3D RTS that regrettably puts too much emphasis on the 3D landscape. And despite the efforts that where made to make it something more by having a lot of different troop types and different formations to chose from it still suffers from the main culprit that most RTS suffer from: all combat is something of a frontal assault vs counterattack.

Ragnar

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 16
- 6/5/2003 7:16:01 PM   
Reknoy

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 11/26/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ragnar
[B]Like the game Matrix will eventually produce, EiH handles many things slightly different from EiA. Some things are better, some are not, but it's mostly a matter of opinion. However, it's still about as much fun to play as the original, so who cares?

[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm trying to take this philosophy as well. I always recall someone moaning about some rule clarification before the start of each game.

Nobody cared much once it was started.

Emphasis on the word "slightly" :)

(in reply to jamo262)
Post #: 17
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