RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/8/2017 8:25:10 PM

Canoerebel

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John's worked hard to retrieve units from forward bases, including Oz, Timor, New Guinea, and probably Java.

He's accomplished a lot in pulling back so many units, but I'm hoping it will mostly be for naught. To this point it really didn't help him with the defense of Luzon, Formosa and coastal China. And if he's now concentrating on preparing the defenses for the Home Islands by emptying or weakening his forward positions like Java, Makassar, Borneo, Malaya, Sumatra, then that'll make the next Allied ops easier.

I don't have plans to invade the Home Islands, so let him pack them full of troops.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 11251

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/8/2017 9:35:37 PM

BillBrown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John's worked hard to retrieve units from forward bases, including Oz, Timor, New Guinea, and probably Java.

He's accomplished a lot in pulling back so many units, but I'm hoping it will mostly be for naught. To this point it really didn't help him with the defense of Luzon, Formosa and coastal China. And if he's now concentrating on preparing the defenses for the Home Islands by emptying or weakening his forward positions like Java, Makassar, Borneo, Malaya, Sumatra, then that'll make the next Allied ops easier.

I don't have plans to invade the Home Islands, so let him pack them full of troops.

That is the best news I have seen lately.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 11252

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 2:27:25 AM

Canoerebel

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9/16/44

Peep Show II: Twin Allied attacks really mess up two IJA stacks. Over the past four or five days, John's army has declined from 185k to 120k. I think John is beside himself. I think this is serious enough to prompt him to do something rash. Let's see.

Coastal China: Little plan to rough up enemy stack works well (thanks, BBfanboy, for the bombardment tutoring) but the attack still comes off at 1:1 and inflicts high disablements on my division. I'll try again tomorrow to neuter the attacking enemy force.

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Post #: 11253

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 2:37:19 AM

Canoerebel

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9/16/44

Details regarding the Formosa battles and the tough little fight near Amoy.

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Post #: 11254

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 2:52:11 AM

Canoerebel

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9/16/44

The battle near Amoy is particularly interesting. To my surprise, John's stack has really roughed up the single US division - a good one with experience and up-to-date equipment; but my efforts to tinker with John's stack prior to his attack did pretty well; but the outcome is still uncertain - my division could take very heavy losses or John could skewer his little army by attacking again.

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Post #: 11255

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 3:29:45 AM

Canoerebel

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Combat report (see two posts above) showed 33rd Div. adjusted downwards for leaders, fatigue and experience. Why? This division looks pretty good to me. And the leader is outstanding. What's going on underneath the hood?

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Post #: 11256

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 3:47:20 AM

BillBrown

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Really bad die rolls? One good thing is that you have a lot of ready guns, that will help a lot if he attacks again.

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Post #: 11257

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 5:55:28 AM

BBfanboy

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I wonder if the AI can "decide" the leader is one of the disabled casualties, and thus not available for the battle?

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Post #: 11258

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 9:41:56 AM

JeffroK

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37mm AT Guns v an Armoured Division??

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Post #: 11259

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 12:36:34 PM

Canoerebel

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57mm AT Guns are tough to come by, so I'm stockpiling them. I'd have upgraded when I realized 2nd and 3rd Tank Division were coming, but not enough supply to permit it.

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Post #: 11260

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 12:40:01 PM

Canoerebel

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9/17/44

See map for details.

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Post #: 11261

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 12:54:27 PM

Lowpe

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Sometimes those rolls are relative, and need only show up in one unit for the malus to appear.

So, perhaps only one unit of Japan was low on supply...or perhaps one unit has a super great leader that outdiced your guy.

I have no idea if leadership land dice rolls are influenced by disruption levels. Maybe.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 7/9/2017 1:06:31 PM >

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Post #: 11262

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 1:03:21 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Combat report (see two posts above) showed 33rd Div. adjusted downwards for leaders, fatigue and experience. Why? This division looks pretty good to me. And the leader is outstanding. What's going on underneath the hood?

Leader experience - A Forrest serving under the command of a Hood?

The Unit fatigue and experience are conundrums? Compared to the Japanese? Yet they got no bonuses.

Did the 33rd have high disruption before the attack?

You show a supply lack, before combat?

� Command - Helps in several ways. They help in giving a bonus to ground combat. If no Corps HQ is in range of a ground unit, the Command HQ can give a bonus like a Corps HQ if it is in range of a ground unit. If there is a Corps HQ within range of the battle, and the Command HQ is within 2 times its command range of the battle, it can add up to an additional 90% bonus to the Assault Value of an attacking force for odds calculations. The bonuses are impacted by the leaderships rating of the commander of the HQs. .

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 7/9/2017 1:05:19 PM >

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Post #: 11263

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 1:13:12 PM

MakeeLearn

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No opsmode(-) showing but was the 33rd in move or combat mode when attacked?

Maybe it's just fate.... well led, well rested, experienced troops still do bad things.... SHOCKING!

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 7/9/2017 1:22:31 PM >

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Post #: 11264

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 4:17:15 PM

Canoerebel

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Combat mode.

Combat should be unpredictable, but under all the circumstances here, I felt sure this unit would stand up well against the enemy. Let's see if I can extract it before it hemorrhages.

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Post #: 11265

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 4:21:57 PM

Xilana

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Looking back at my post from July 1st, it still looks a lot like 6th Army at Stalingrad. I do appreciate one thing though about the Pacific strategy in the real war, an invasion of China would have been a blood bath due to the numbers of Japanese troops that might have been engaged. While people speak about Army
force compositions at this stage of the war, I think the overlooked portion of the equation is numbers. If you throw enough experienced troops at a good unit with better equipment, you may see some wrecked divisions. I would consider some of the marine divisions during the island campaigns - fixed enemy forces battered the marines pretty hard.

As to the aircraft buildup on your flanks, kamikazes perhaps? I'd say good move on pulling back the big boys, they probably would have walked into an ambush.

OT1: Allied intel was very good at this stage of the war. Does the game portray this well would be my question?

OT2: I'd hazard a guess that your esteemed opponent is busy pulling out troops on the perimeter. I would be doing this if it were me at this stage of the game. What I don't understand is why you'd dump them in backwater theaters like SE Asia. Obviously in a real conflict, one could say for what purpose while here I'd surmise VP generation and perhaps preservation of coastal bases. Why? In the real war, the Kaigun was to a degree wasted in useless and defiant acts. In a game where VP exists, force preservation matters. You need places to hide those ships.

I think I see your end game based on a statement or two...the question becomes with the altered history allowing Japan to focus research on bomber killer aircraft, do you think your 4E bombers have the ability to incinerate Japan. If not, you may be in for a grind on land.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 11266

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 6:55:43 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: venividivici10044a

Looking back at my post from July 1st, it still looks a lot like 6th Army at Stalingrad. I do appreciate one thing though about the Pacific strategy in the real war, an invasion of China would have been a blood bath due to the numbers of Japanese troops that might have been engaged. While people speak about Army
force compositions at this stage of the war, I think the overlooked portion of the equation is numbers. If you throw enough experienced troops at a good unit with better equipment, you may see some wrecked divisions. I would consider some of the marine divisions during the island campaigns - fixed enemy forces battered the marines pretty hard.

As to the aircraft buildup on your flanks, kamikazes perhaps? I'd say good move on pulling back the big boys, they probably would have walked into an ambush.

OT1: Allied intel was very good at this stage of the war. Does the game portray this well would be my question?

OT2: I'd hazard a guess that your esteemed opponent is busy pulling out troops on the perimeter. I would be doing this if it were me at this stage of the game. What I don't understand is why you'd dump them in backwater theaters like SE Asia. Obviously in a real conflict, one could say for what purpose while here I'd surmise VP generation and perhaps preservation of coastal bases. Why? In the real war, the Kaigun was to a degree wasted in useless and defiant acts. In a game where VP exists, force preservation matters. You need places to hide those ships.

I think I see your end game based on a statement or two...the question becomes with the altered history allowing Japan to focus research on bomber killer aircraft, do you think your 4E bombers have the ability to incinerate Japan. If not, you may be in for a grind on land.

One of my bomber groups littered over the Home Islands and I nearly got 100VP. It can be done over the land if that is what CR chooses to do.

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Post #: 11267

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/9/2017 9:34:00 PM

JohnDillworth

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"TURKEY TROTS TO WATER. WHERE, REPEAT WHERE, ARE THE UPGRADED CHINESE DIVISIONS? THE WORLD WONDERS"

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Post #: 11268

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 1:39:40 AM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth
"TURKEY TROTS TO WATER. WHERE, REPEAT WHERE, ARE THE UPGRADED CHINESE DIVISIONS? THE WORLD WONDERS"

Perhaps 10 corps/divisions have upgraded to '43 squadrons and are moving to the front lines. Another 10 or so are consigned to garrison duty. Much of my Chinese army is on the front lines and not in a base hex, so ineligible to upgrade.

At the moment it suits me to have an MLR situated well inland. It makes it more difficult for John to switch units between there and the coastal area.

There will come a day when the Chinese share in the offensives, but that's still some months away.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 11269

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 1:43:33 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: venividivici10044a

Looking back at my post from July 1st, it still looks a lot like 6th Army at Stalingrad. I do appreciate one thing though about the Pacific strategy in the real war, an invasion of China would have been a blood bath due to the numbers of Japanese troops that might have been engaged. While people speak about Army
force compositions at this stage of the war, I think the overlooked portion of the equation is numbers. If you throw enough experienced troops at a good unit with better equipment, you may see some wrecked divisions. I would consider some of the marine divisions during the island campaigns - fixed enemy forces battered the marines pretty hard.

As to the aircraft buildup on your flanks, kamikazes perhaps? I'd say good move on pulling back the big boys, they probably would have walked into an ambush.

quote:

OT1: Allied intel was very good at this stage of the war. Does the game portray this well would be my question?

The level/frequency/reliability of SigInt doesn't increase in the late war, as best I can tell. But in this particular game, under these circumstances, I'm getting the info that I need: (a) the most important info is KB's location, and John reveals that so often that it's like the ultimate intelligence coup; and (b) given my very long and narrow salient from Oz to DEI/Borneo to Luzon to Formosa to China/Indochina, many of John's bases are within range of Allied reconnaissance aircraft.

Thus I'm getting a great deal of intel, and nearly all of what I really want.

quote:

OT2: I'd hazard a guess that your esteemed opponent is busy pulling out troops on the perimeter. I would be doing this if it were me at this stage of the game. What I don't understand is why you'd dump them in backwater theaters like SE Asia. Obviously in a real conflict, one could say for what purpose while here I'd surmise VP generation and perhaps preservation of coastal bases. Why? In the real war, the Kaigun was to a degree wasted in useless and defiant acts. In a game where VP exists, force preservation matters. You need places to hide those ships.

I think I see your end game based on a statement or two...the question becomes with the altered history allowing Japan to focus research on bomber killer aircraft, do you think your 4E bombers have the ability to incinerate Japan. If not, you may be in for a grind on land.

My 4EB are pretty tough, especially at night. At least to this point.

Long term, though, it's the combination of ship bombardments, fighter sweeps and 4EB that should allow the Allies to devastate the Japanese economy, thus harvesting victory points. Taking a few more bases north of Foochow would allow that kind of mix; or, if KB takes a thumping, I can park Death Star close to Japan, use carrier air and bombardments, and employ 4EB on strategic missions. I don't yet know when and how the right circumstances will come about but they are likely to eventually.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 7/10/2017 1:47:13 AM >

(in reply to Xilana)

Post #: 11270

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 2:09:47 AM

Canoerebel

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9/18/44

Intelligence Screen: Allied harvesting of victory points is beginning to pick up a little momentum. Formosa - points for bases and points for destroying enemy squads and devices - is primarily responsible.

If I understand this game, I think it may be more efficient to engage in strategic bombing of Home Island industry rather than invading and taking bases. The latter seems like a more expensive and risky method of scoring points. So the long term plan is to close on Japan and hammer it from the air even while turning my military focus on the DEI for the rest of '44. But I'll continually reevaluate options.

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Post #: 11271

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 2:25:27 AM

Canoerebel

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9/18/44

See map for details.

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Post #: 11272

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 12:42:51 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

9/18/44

If I understand this game, I think it may be more efficient to engage in strategic bombing of Home Island industry rather than invading and taking bases. The latter seems like a more expensive and risky method of scoring points. So the long term plan is to close on Japan and hammer it from the air even while turning my military focus on the DEI for the rest of '44. But I'll continually reevaluate options.

Correct.

Every amphibious invasion you mount offers the possibility to lose ship VP's to kami's. The nature of the VP game means that it doesn't take heavy losses to make large-scale kami strikes a VP gain for Japan.

It doesn't even need to be the larger warships, either. A trio of CVE's (and they'll die in bunches to kami's) is worth around 150 planes, while the amphib ships are around 30 VP's a pop (not including the troops aboard).

You have the positions on China and Formosa to effectively prosecute an extensive strategic bombing campaign. The Shanghai region will provide you the fighter bases to control Kyushu and you can take your time to push through the Ryukyu islands if you want closer bases.

This game is effectively over - the Japanese are beaten. The only question is what the victory level will be.

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Post #: 11273

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 2:08:49 PM

Canoerebel

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I went back a few days to take another look at 33rd U.S. Division just before she underwent attack.

She looked like a fine division ready to dish it out.

The only possibilities I can come up with: (1) bad luck on dice roles? (2) perhaps those 37mm AT guns screwed the pooch vs. 2nd Tank Div. (3) Perhaps 2nd Tank Div. has elite experience - 20 points or so higher than the Americans?

Well, time to move on; but I'll be a bit antsy the next time an American division goes into combat in China.

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Post #: 11274

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 2:24:12 PM

Mike McCreery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I went back a few days to take another look at 33rd U.S. Division just before she underwent attack.

She looked like a fine division ready to dish it out.

The only possibilities I can come up with: (1) bad luck on dice roles? (2) perhaps those 37mm AT guns screwed the pooch vs. 2nd Tank Div. (3) Perhaps 2nd Tank Div. has elite experience - 20 points or so higher than the Americans?

Well, time to move on; but I'll be a bit antsy the next time an American division goes into combat in China.

Infantry are not great against tanks even 44 American infantry.

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Post #: 11275

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 4:21:56 PM

MakeeLearn

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Does moving even in combat mode give penalties?

"� Combat � The unit is in optimal formation for fighting � but has its movement reduced because the unit is moving tactically anticipating a battle. "

May have done better if in an Attack mode instead of Defend. That was a lot of Jap vehicles. It's not that you did bad but that you suffered penalties.

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Post #: 11276

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 4:27:54 PM

traskott

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Good to see the 33rd could escape. Now it's time of R&R, although supplies looks like a bit low....

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Post #: 11277

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 4:29:17 PM

Lowpe

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Japan should be using the fantastically overpowered Type 3 Medium tank...which in history Japan only made 2-300 of, and they all stayed on Honshu.

Obviously a late game boon to Japan from the developers. One of many. Those 37mm wouldn't do much.

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Post #: 11278

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 5:16:04 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Does moving even in combat mode give penalties?

"� Combat � The unit is in optimal formation for fighting � but has its movement reduced because the unit is moving tactically anticipating a battle. "

May have done better if in an Attack mode instead of Defend. That was a lot of Jap vehicles. It's not that you did bad but that you suffered penalties.

I believe that it does. I am sure that it means any fortifications are not counted (and field fortifications are reset to 0); I suspect terrain benefits might be lessened; and I suspect a penalty of some kind is applied.

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Post #: 11279

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 7/10/2017 7:16:03 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Does moving even in combat mode give penalties?

"� Combat � The unit is in optimal formation for fighting � but has its movement reduced because the unit is moving tactically anticipating a battle. "

May have done better if in an Attack mode instead of Defend. That was a lot of Jap vehicles. It's not that you did bad but that you suffered penalties.

I believe that it does. I am sure that it means any fortifications are not counted (and field fortifications are reset to 0); I suspect terrain benefits might be lessened; and I suspect a penalty of some kind is applied.

If you even begin a march with an LCU, it clears any field fortifications that it had built.

Aside from the indirect effect, moving in Combat mode does not have any direct affect combat (your 2nd and 3rd points).

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Post #: 11280

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