RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat)

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/1/2017 4:59:54 PM

John B.

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The invasion of Java is about to begin. I should be on the ground next time and I'm glad to have located Scott's CVs near Moresby so I know the KB can operate with a bit more impunity. I've got two divisions heading in and my first target will be Soerebaja after I land. the Dutch bombers keep coming in but they're pretty much suicide troops anyway.

In China, I'm stuck at Sian since he has a huge army there. So, I'm moving in artillery since I might as well shell his troops to death and take the city eventually anyway. I did manage to sneak into Kwelin which breaks his internal rail line but it looks like the four corps he has trapped near Changsha will get away. For some reason my attacks against them were all disasters even though he was out of supply.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/1/2017 5:02:29 PM

John B.

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In Burma, Rangoon will fall soon, it's only a matter of time. I don't have any plans to go into India so I may use my troops there to put additional pressure on China by going through the back door. The terrain may be too awful, but it will be interesting to see what happens.

And, last but not least, here is the production screen. Oil is depleting and I'm staring to move that and resources in. Building planes faster than they are being shot down so far so that's a good thing. :) I'm also building up some Light Industry. I know that the payoff is a long time coming, but it can serve as a source of supply when the fuel runs out.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/1/2017 10:43:20 PM

Bif1961

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The only benefit he has is terrain at Clark, everything else is negative. I would bomb to eat up what little supply he has left and keep his disruption up and after 2-3 days do a shock attack that should flip the odds from 1-1 to probably 2-1 or 3-1 in your favor and with no supplies and no forts that should end him.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 7/1/2017 10:50:42 PM >

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/2/2017 1:01:03 AM

John B.

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Shock attack can be risky given how much power he has there but since he's at low supply you might be right. I'll give it 48 hours and give it a shot.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 12:05:35 AM

Bif1961

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True and Bataan collapse and 70,000 surrendered to a smaller Japanese force because they were worn down from weeks of being out of supply. HoITPAE to reinforce your loses.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 5:41:28 AM

obvert

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So. In your first Japanese game how are you finding the economy?

Curious to see what you're prioritising for airframes. What are your 2nd gen RnD choices? Your 3rd gen?

Also, have you begun to track resources into the HI yet? It's easy to lose sight of how much the Japanese economy needs to stay running. Make sure to have ALL of the available resources from Sakhalin and Hokkaido on CS supply routes back and forth into the HI. Also, Hokkaido needs some fun to run the HI factories. I usually set one TF to return with fuel after dropping resources at Ominato.

Armor and heavy arty are cheap to buy out of Manchuria. If you're progressing in China these will help immensely!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 3:59:51 PM

Aurorus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

So. In your first Japanese game how are you finding the economy?

Curious to see what you're prioritising for airframes. What are your 2nd gen RnD choices? Your 3rd gen?

Also, have you begun to track resources into the HI yet? It's easy to lose sight of how much the Japanese economy needs to stay running. Make sure to have ALL of the available resources from Sakhalin and Hokkaido on CS supply routes back and forth into the HI. Also, Hokkaido needs some fun to run the HI factories. I usually set one TF to return with fuel after dropping resources at Ominato.

Armor and heavy arty are cheap to buy out of Manchuria. If you're progressing in China these will help immensely!

I find the heavy artillery from Manchuria more helpful in the first months in places like Clark Field and Singapore, where there will be a large stack of allied troops in good terrain. This depends, of course, on how you approach Singapore and Luzon. As Obvert mentions, the heavy artillery is not expensive (unlike the other artillery).

I am also curious about your decisions with regard to aircraft production and R&D. If you could post a screenshot of tracker and update us as to how your factories are allocated... inquiring minds want to know.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:17:02 PM

John B.

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@bif. I have a shock attack set to go into Clark Field this turn (Feb. 3rd). If it doesn't work I'll give the pixel widows and pixel orphans your address. :) Kidding, of cousrse, with the low supply messages I've been getting from the allied side I should not be at too great of risk of calamity.

@ Aurous and Obvert. Ah, tracker, someday I'll be able to get that to work. In any event, I'll post a series of screen shots with both current aircraft production and the R&D models.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:18:03 PM

John B.

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current production screen one.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:18:34 PM

John B.

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Current Production screen two

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:19:07 PM

John B.

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R & D Screen One

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:19:34 PM

John B.

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R & D screen two

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:20:05 PM

John B.

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R&D Screen three.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:20:37 PM

John B.

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R & D Screen 4.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:21:05 PM

John B.

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R & D screen 5.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:21:40 PM

John B.

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R & D Screen 6

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:22:35 PM

John B.

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Last but not least, R & D screen 7.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 10:29:53 PM

John B.

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Any advice is most welcome.

I looks like I might get the Toka early, but who cares, I'm not sure a 1945 bomber helps all that much although it is a swift little plane. I admit a lack of intimate knowledge of Japanese airframes so I puttered around a bit at the start and have not done much to this since then.

I've taken your heavy artillery out of Manchuria advice. Since Singapore has fallen and Clark is on the ropes, I have it all heading to Sian where there is an enormous boatload of Chinese forces holed up in a level 3 fort. I think it's a long term bad idea for Scott but I think that the heavy artillery will do the best there. I"ve only pulled one division out of Manchuria thus far and am now concentrating on the support units.

I have been moving resources into the home islands and I think that I'm above my starting stockpile. As for oil, that stockpile is not going down as fast now that some imports are heading in. I've been buidling up HI in China and Manchruia (and will do so elsewhere) on the theory that (a) don't have to move resources and (b) strat bombing those out of Japan factories don't produce VPs.

I've kept some fuel consumption down by keeping the KB near Singapore for these first two months.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/3/2017 11:49:45 PM

Aurorus

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Your production of existing frames looks pretty good. I assume that this is PDU:on, since you are missing some things (like Sonia and Lilly). You may want to retain some of the Lilly air groups as Lillies and set up some production for the IIa and IIb. The IIa is your first bomber with armor, and the IIb is an air-force dive bomber, which is the only good anti-ship airforce bomber. You are also missing the Tina, which is your only navy transport. (It is also your best transport). You only ever get 2 or 3 squadrons of Tinas, so a production of 5 or so per month should be sufficient.

As to R&D, you want to try to use factories of 30, as there is a major bonus for having a 30-factory. You want to think of R&D in terms of what you intend to produce of any given model. The expansion of the industry costs 1000 supply per point as it is repaired, whether you expand and repair it now or once the aircraft becomes available. So it is in your best interest to set your factories to expand now. Many of the factories upgrade for free: either to new production models or to new R&D models. For example, if you set 6 factories to 30 on the A6M2-Rufe, in March 1942, you will have the option to either have these factories enter into production of the Rufe, or convert, without damage to the A6M3a. If you wish them to convert to the A6M3a, you click on them when these are blue (in March 1942 in the case of the A6M2-Rufe) and select the next plane in the line (the A6M3a). Because factories repair much faster when a plane is near its availability date, this is a way to greatly accelerate certain lines of R&D, especially the Zero, the Oscar (if you want to R&D Oscar), and the Tony.

In general, in PDU:ON, you want to focus on 1 good fighter for each stage of the war for both the air-force and the navy. Zero R&D is almost essential to any Japanese strategy. So you want approximately 4-8 size 30 factories set to the A6M2-Rufe or the A6M3 (which also upgrade without damage to the A6M3a). It is best to choose either the Nick or the Jack and set 3-7 size 30 factories to one or the other. For the final stage of the war, the A7M2-Sam is the plane for the navy. You probably want to set some factories to this as well. Paxmondo recommends going all-in on the A7M2, setting 12 size 30 factories to this fighter. This is very heavy and much more than most Japanese players set in the early war, but putting some factories on it is probably not a bad idea.

For the army, there are many different R&D strategies. I play PDU:off. If I were to play PDU:On, I would not bother with Oscar R&D at all. I would focus mostly on Tony and especially Frank with some on the Tojo to accelerate the Tojo IIc. So a typical air-force R&D strategy for me in PDU:On would look something like Frank 10x30 factories, Tony 5 x 30, Tojo 4 x 30. Once the Tojo becomes available, I would expand one of those size 30 factories to 90 and set the rest to the Tojo IIb or c.

In order to become night-fighter squadrons, the squadrons have to be upgraded to a night-fighter plane from the squadron upgrade path. You cannot simply pay PPs to change them over to nightfighters in many cases. So some minor research in the various types of night-fighters is warranted. Something like Nick 1d 2 x 30, Dinah IIIKAI (1 x 30), J1N1 Irving (2 x 30), and so forth. 1 factory for each night-fighter type. It is also nice to set 1 x 30 factory to the Fances night-bomber to advance it closer to 6/44.

Jills and Judies are also helpful to accelerate. Something along the lines of 2 or 3 size 30 factories for each.

Basic idea: size 30 factories. The number of factories should be near the number of planes that you intend to produce of each model per month. To give you an idea of later war production, the Japanese produced about 360 Franks per month. That would 12 size 30 factories.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/4/2017 12:03:08 AM

Aurorus

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To give you an idea what I am talking about, here is a screenshot of some of my R&D set up in my new DBB-lite game. This is PDU:Off and it uses the DBB upgrade paths, so it is not meant to be a definitive example of how you should set up R&D or production for a stock PDU:On game. It is merely meant to be illustrative. Also notice that you want to have at least 10K supply (more like 15K) in every base that is repairing air R&D, because the R&D factories will no repair if the base has less than 10K supply.

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< Message edited by Aurorus -- 7/4/2017 12:07:42 AM >

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/4/2017 12:22:00 AM

John B.

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Aurorus,

This is very helpful, thanks!

I'm not clear on the ability to switch factories to the next R&D or to simply start producing the new plane. What if I forget, do they automatically start producing the new aircraft or do they automatically become R&D for the next model in the chain? Also, what about factories producing the current airframe. Do these automatically upgrade and start producing the new plane when it becomes available? I take it one good source for extra factories is to convert some of the R&D factories set for late 45 early 46?

I'll start bringing the aircraft R&D factories up to 30. Thanks for the tip about the Lillies. I did not know they got so much better.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/4/2017 12:35:36 AM

Aurorus

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If you turn upgrade to "off," the R&D factories will not convert to production. This is something that I need to do in this game for my R&D factories. You will have some notice that production is about to begin in the month before the airframe becomes available. The R&D factories will become blue and show a percentage each day. When this percentage reaches 100, the factories will convert to production if upgrade is set to "on." During this period, when the factories are displayed in blue, you can click on them to change them to R&D the next plane on the path.

After changing them once, you can also click on them again and advance them further along the path: skipping steps. This is considered by some (myself included) to be gamey. Others do not think that it is gamey. This is especially effective to advance research in the A6M line (skipping directly to the A6M5c or the A6M8, for example) and in the Tony line (skipping directly to the Ki-100 from the Ki-61a).

If you and your opponent have no qualms about skipping steps, going for the Ki-100 Tony and making it a mainstay of your air-force is a very good idea (because these factories repair very early for the KI-61a, allowing you to research a late-war fighter in 1942).

Keep in mind that you get a research bonus if you have 500 engines of the type necessary in the pool. So don't neglect your engine production. You can safely expand Nakajima 45 production to 300 or 350 now. You will eventually need that much or more production each month. For the moment, the engine production counts as research and will advance the availability date of the engine.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/4/2017 12:27:52 PM

John B.

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Thanks! I'll have to start increasing the size of my engine factories. except that now I'm starting to realize in real time that Japan is not the same bottomless source of supply that one finds in the US. :) I think skipping research steps is gamey as well so I won't be doing that.

And, in good news, Clark Field was shock attacked and fell! I'm going to rename it "Bif1961 Field" in his honor since he had the idea.

My troops in the Phillipines are now moving into Bataan where I expect the fort level is pretty high. This is good news since it means I'm likely to be able to free up the Philippines troops a month or more in advance of when they usually come in. It also saves two other divisions that were heading to the Philippines. One will go to Canton and the other will head south to take part in the Darwin invasion.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/4/2017 5:59:00 PM

Aurorus

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Indeed, how you manage both your supply and fuel is critical to your success as Japan. If you are aggressive on all fronts and wage a vigorous air campaign, you will most likely burn out Japan's economy by the end of 1943: not having enough supply to continue operations. Be judicious and efficient in your use of supply. For example, do not bomb things only because your bombers have nothing to do for the day. (This is a mistake that I often made against the AI while learning the basics). Have a purpose for everything that you do.

Your BBs and CVs are fuel hogs. Again be judicious. I read somewhere that your fleet should be in port at least 50% of the time. I think it is more that your BBs should be in port 90% of the time, and the rest of the fleet 30-40% of the time. Make good use of your CAs and CLs. Do not use your BBs for anything that a CA can do. I try to go through the whole of 1942 refueling my BBs only once. IMO, your BBs are best conserved until the late-war when they can make a run at US CV or amphibious groups which have too much fighter cover to attack by air. Fast transport groups composed of CLs and DDs are great, but they also use more fuel than traditional transports or amphibs. Again, be judicious.In the beginning, however, use your fleet as you see fit, at least until March 1942.

Be careful of long sieges and continuous bombardments with large stacks. These use inordinate amounts of supply. Try to win battles quickly and decisively and avoid prolonged engagements on the ground as much as possible.

A little expansion of both heavy industry and light industry in important areas is helpful. I like to expand light industry in Korea and at Manila, for example. I also like to expand heavy industry some in Korea: maybe 100 points.

Finally, be careful with upgrades. For example, many of your units start with slow-firing type 1 37 mm anti-tank guns. While you will want to upgrade these eventually to the type 95 guns (which will in turn upgrade to the 47 mm), do so judiciously, because the armament cost of wholesale upgrades is large. Rear-area units should not be upgraded until absolutely necessary. The same applies to the old model, type 89A, medium tanks. I like to upgrade only after the armor has suffered some losses. This preserves vehicle points and heavy industry.

At some point in mid to late 1942, after building a stockpile of merchant shipping points, you will probably want to shut off all merchant ship production not necessary for the CVEs or tankers to conserve heavy industry for airframe and engine production.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/13/2017 12:20:14 PM

John B.

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Here we are at Feb. 10, 1942. I think things are going along pretty well. I'm on Java and attacking Soerabaja. It should fall fairly quickly. In Burma not much has changed. Scott has put a lot of stuff into there including the Viper force that he flew into Rangoon and some Indian brigades. I view this as free VP for me since I get to fight these troops on the right side of the logistics barrier. The Thai army has managed to get into a stalemate and two IJA divisions are on the way so my hope is to be pretty much cleared out by the end of February. I don't intend to go into India, I'll send some troops into China to see if I can cut off the air supply.

Speaking of China. Aurorus, I hear you on the long term sieges but I think that's what China always turns into. Scott has about 15 corps or so stacked up in Sian. I'm moving in heavy artillery and killing about 5-10 squads per turn. I'm happy to spend the supply for this since China will run out first and it will be a cheaper way to take Sian than by frontal assault. I'll bombard until March or so and then give it a go. But, Scott might pull back before then, we'll have to see.

More tooing and froing near Morseby.

My current thinking is an attack on Perth. If I land a raiding regiment with transports at the city north of Perth on turn 1 on turn two they could drop on Kilgorie (sp?) which cuts off all rail transportation to western Australia. I'm not sure I could stay for the game, but it may derail (pun intended) his advance in the central pacific and, with only open ocean behind me I would have the land based air advantage since he could not build up island bases to cut off the flow of supplies and ships down there.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/13/2017 12:20:53 PM

John B.

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Oh, it seems to take forever to load oil on TKs while fuel seems to load right up. Is there something that I'm missing about transporting oil?

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/13/2017 3:47:38 PM

Aurorus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Oh, it seems to take forever to load oil on TKs while fuel seems to load right up. Is there something that I'm missing about transporting oil?

If a base has refineries, it will not load its last oil. The game engine wants to maintain a supply of oil at the base sufficient for about 10 days of refinery consumption. That is the only way that I can see that load rates differ for oil and fuel.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/13/2017 4:01:26 PM

John B.

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Oh that makes a lot of sense! I wonder if it will make a difference if I turn off the stockpiling of oil. I'll give that a try and see if it helps.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/13/2017 4:15:03 PM

Aurorus

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The scoresheet looks very good. Your army losses are a little high, but that depends on what you have been doing in China. Your air-to-air losses are also a little high for this point in the war, but your flak losses are very low: no bombing of Singapore? I recommend keeping your Zeros and Oscars in their best manuever bands: 15K or under. If he is also flying high on sweeps or CAP stay a little under 15K, about 12K. This gives your Zeros and Oscars a little climb distance to engage the enemy while still remaining in their best manuever band.

Your sorties number looks good as well. It appears as though you are not just flying aircraft for the sake of flying them but using your sorties for the things that are important.

All-in-all, a good start for Japan. Stay mindful of your supply and fuel use and develop a good R&D program and you should be set as Japan.

I also like to increase light industry in few places like Manila, for example. There are surplus resources nearby. It is far enough from the Home Islands to justify saving fuel by shipping resources there rather than Honshu, and it is unlikely to fall into allied hands until late in the war.

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RE: Quisling! An AFB does Japan (No PanzerKat) - 7/13/2017 11:48:00 PM

Bif1961

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How did the shock attack on Clark go?

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