Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

I have a problem!

My two bombarding TF went in on Attu overnight. The results for the BB TF were slightly disappointing, but I got no result at all for the CA TF, just a notification that they had bombarded the target.

BUT, at the end of the turn BOTH of these TF have disappeared! They're not on the map and not listed on the TF listing!

I have re-run the turn from the pre-turn auto-save and obtained exactly the same results (presumably, and sensibly, the pre-turn save also stores a ready list of random rolls? Thereby guaranteeing the same outcome) as regards air-raids and bombardments. Unfortunately, the TF disappear again. And just in case the AI has some sort of super-weapon they're not listed as sunk either!

Now, as I reported in my first playthrough, a 'ghost TF' appeared on the top edge of the map a few turns ago. This cannot be clicked on or controlled in any way.

After that last turn two more have appeared a few hexes west of the ghost. Could these be my missing TF? And we're nowhere near Bermuda!

If anyone has any ideas on how to fix this or has experienced it before (even if you've not found a solution) then I'd much appreciate your feedback. Thanks in advance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

I have a problem!

My two bombarding TF went in on Attu overnight. The results for the BB TF were slightly disappointing, but I got no result at all for the CA TF, just a notification that they had bombarded the target.

BUT, at the end of the turn BOTH of these TF have disappeared! They're not on the map and not listed on the TF listing!

I have re-run the turn from the pre-turn auto-save and obtained exactly the same results (presumably, and sensibly, the pre-turn save also stores a ready list of random rolls? Thereby guaranteeing the same outcome) as regards air-raids and bombardments. Unfortunately, the TF disappear again. And just in case the AI has some sort of super-weapon they're not listed as sunk either!

Now, as I reported in my first playthrough, a 'ghost TF' appeared on the top edge of the map a few turns ago. This cannot be clicked on or controlled in any way.

After that last turn two more have appeared a few hexes west of the ghost. Could these be my missing TF? And we're nowhere near Bermuda!

If anyone has any ideas on how to fix this or has experienced it before (even if you've not found a solution) then I'd much appreciate your feedback. Thanks in advance.

Start by looking at the TFs in the pre-turn save - what routing instructions did they have? What was the home port? What was the threat tolerance?
The most like culprit is a TF commander "retreating from air threat" (I think this message flashes briefly on screen and may be recorded in the ops report. Make sure the routing instructions say "Direct/Absolute" and do not use way points with fuelling (the latter causes some routing anomalies in the GC).

If you are not happy about the TF Commander and there is an equivalent ship that could take over command, swap out the latter ship to another TF and then bring it back in to take over command.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

BBfanboy

For the two BB and CA bombarding TFs:-

Routing instructions : Normal, no refuelling

Threat tolerance : Normal

Reaction : 4 hexes

Bombard range : minimum 0

Home port : Dutch Harbor

Re-test 1: So, restarting the pre-turn auto-save again, I now change routing to direct, threat tolerance to absolute, and reaction to zero hexes. Remember I've changed their mission to surface combat from bombardment also!

That's better! Both TF pass through Attu Island hex (I presume so since because nothing happens this not actually shown) and emerge returning to Dutch Harbor unscathed and entirely still under my control.

Re-test 2 : Now I will try the same but re-set the CA TF mission to bombardment, leaving the BB mission to surface combat.

Excellent! CA TF bombards Attu (and I get a result reported this time) and both the CA and BB TF are on the map returning to Dutch Harbor at the end of the turn.

Re-test 3 : Now, both the BB and CA TF will bombard with routing at direct, threat at absolute, and reaction at zero. Minimum bombardment range is 1 for BBs (seems cannot be 0) and 0 for CAs.

Even more excellent! Both TF bombard immediately after each other on the same night and emerge on their way back home in the morning.

Now I will continue to the subsequent day and allow the third bombardment TF, the CLs, to go in to Attu and bombard without changing its settings (route normal, threat normal, reaction zero, bombard range 0).

And, of course, it disappears! It would appear to become part of the original ghost TF symbol which now lists 2 TF present.


So, what's happened? What's the solution?

It would seem the jump to the map-edge is NOT dependent on the TF making a bombardment nor is it dependent on the reaction setting. It does seem to be dependent on the TF traversing the Attu hex and on the routing and / or threat tolerance settings.

As a precaution I will set all bombarding TF to direct routing and absolute threat tolerance on the turn they go into the attack. This really should not be necessary but I don't want any more glitches!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


The key part of my previous advice was setting the set tolerance and routing to Direct/Absolute!
It does not matter that it is night or that you have no direct indication of air threat, the AI knows about air threats, including if it has Bettys at PJ set to naval attack and it will cause your TFs to flee. Given the proximity of the map edge they seem to be choosing to flee in that direction rather than back to their base.

Always set bombardment TFs to "Direct/Absolute" to keep them on course. If you don't, sometimes the AI reacts to a sub threat a hex or so away and makes a wide loop around it, causing your TF to use up its movement points too soon. I don't think this happens in PBEM games but the AI knows too much in games against it. You can test this a little by picking a location with a known threat and routing a TF close to that threat to a point beyond, then play with the threat tolerance and see what the routing does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

Thanks for the insight, Aurorus.

I'll understand the nuances of this game eventually!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

Hi tarkalak

Thanks. As you will see, I have tried changing the routing settings and it works!

I came to the conclusion that reaction settings were not relevant because the CL TF had a reaction setting of zero yet it still disappeared. However, I could easily be wrong because its routing and threat tolerance were both normal, and of course, for the successful bombardments by the BB and CA TFs I had set reaction to zero.

I did not report it here but my first test was to set patrol zones for the BB and CA just west of Attu and avoiding actually entering its hex. Sure enough they stayed on the map but one of them had a most peculiar friendly AI route setting for its patrol (which was triangular 2 hexes apart) wherein there was a huge detour between two of the waypoints which were only 2 hexes apart. I can only assume that during daylight the TF was very wary of air attack from Attu even though no significant threat has been discovered on Recon.