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Problems With Malta - 7/28/2017 9:24:28 PM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		I seem to have a problem with the taking of Malta against human players. I constantly bomb the place, back to
the Stone age & destroy their harbours, but after bombing raids my Para's refuse to activate (jump), HOWEVER,
they will jump if they are allowed to go 1st.

Have I missed something in the instructions or is it a strange quirk in the game.


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Post #: 1
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/28/2017 11:50:21 PM   
xwormwood


Posts: 1149
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline 		You don't really need paras, you can always do an amphib invasion.
Everything else should be described more detailed, else it is impossible to understand where the problem can be found (in the game, or in front of the screen).
;)

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RE: Problems With Malta - 7/29/2017 1:39:44 AM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		You missed what I am getting at...My Para's wont jump if the bombers go first. The weather in all of the games is fine, the para are prepared, but this only happens when
playing humans.

I usually have to do an amphib invasion to take the place.

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Post #: 3
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/29/2017 4:00:38 AM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		Are they in range of Malta?

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Post #: 4
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/29/2017 5:50:58 AM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		Yep...that was my 1st thought, but thanks for suggestion.

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Post #: 5
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/29/2017 7:02:43 AM   
Amadeus

 

Posts: 181
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline 		Weird. I take Malta by this in my last game.
Supply could be an issue. Please press s key and control supply.

< Message edited by Amadeus -- 7/29/2017 7:03:11 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/29/2017 10:20:15 AM   
Goodenough


Posts: 35
Joined: 6/20/2016
From: UK
Status: offline 		Is it because the unit on Malta is hidden?

If Malta looks empty then Paras can land, bombing first will reveal the unit in Malta.

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Post #: 7
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/29/2017 10:29:27 PM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		Weird is really an understatement, anyway the supply is 10..so I am trying something new, by turning off & then back on
the prepare button & see what happens.




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Post #: 8
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/30/2017 9:33:42 AM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		I think Goodenough's suggestion is likely the case, because if Malta appears empty (i.e. before your planes have spotted any enemy present in it) it will be possible to launch your paras... but after your planes have spotted a defender, your paras won't be able to launch to attack Malta until the defender has been destroyed. Or until next turn when spotting is re-calibrated.

Hopefully that explains it?



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Post #: 9
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/30/2017 1:01:58 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		Is that really true? If fow is on so a hex looks empty paras can land? So what would happen in Malta's case since there is no other land hexes for the paras to divert to? Because I assume if the paras launch thinking a hex is vacant and find troops there, they would just land adjacent or somewhere else instead.

Or are they just destroyed? Or does an actual combat take place and are destroyed if they do not win?

I've always made sure hexes were empty before landing them so never tried landing them on top of units. Since I figured really bad things would happen to me

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Post #: 10
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/30/2017 8:56:26 PM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		Thanks, that is the answer...although I would suggest that you twig rules to allow the Parra's to jump, afterall
they can jump onto the Belgium fortress, even when the troops are exposed.

As for Numdydar enquiry, they are shattered, even if the defender is reduced to one.

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Post #: 11
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/31/2017 4:04:37 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Is that really true? If fow is on so a hex looks empty paras can land?


If the hex looks empty then they can launch, but they wouldn't be able to land because there is nowhere free to land.

In other circumstances they would land in an adjacent empty hex, but when there isn't one you are correct in thinking that it would all end badly, hence the need for prior reconnaissance. It saves lives!

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Post #: 12
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/31/2017 6:13:20 PM   
xwormwood


Posts: 1149
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline 		But the game
could benefit from a new rule / adapted system, where one can land into occupied hexes, invade occupied hexe, attack until anhiliation (trapped unit breaks out in an all out attack - now or never).
:)

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Post #: 13
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/31/2017 8:46:18 PM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Is that really true? If fow is on so a hex looks empty paras can land?


If the hex looks empty then they can launch, but they wouldn't be able to land because there is nowhere free to land.

In other circumstances they would land in an adjacent empty hex, but when there isn't one you are correct in thinking that it would all end badly, hence the need for prior reconnaissance. It saves lives!


I think that the type of unit occupying the hex should influence whether you can launch or not & if successful
go with Xwormwood's Idea.


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Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Post #: 14
RE: Problems With Malta - 7/31/2017 11:15:16 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		There should be certain hexes on the map that should always be 'known' even with fow On. Malta, Gibraltar, and maybe some others as the Axis pretty much knew what was in those locations all the time. At least to when Sicily was taken.

The Allies would know what was in any port in the English Channel and in NA that was in Axis hands.

Just a thought.

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Post #: 15
RE: Problems With Malta - 8/4/2017 3:58:35 PM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline 		I see Axis players in PBEM trying all the time to take Egypt without first having Malta. I think that's actually self-defeating? Or is it possible at all?

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Post #: 16
RE: Problems With Malta - 8/4/2017 6:10:52 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline
quote:

I think that's actually self-defeating?


It is indeed; or at least a long taking and risky operation, since you`ll need towns with 5 supply to build the HQ-Chain at least, and with the often 2 times striking Malta-effect given seldomly.

Alltogether there`s no point in doing so: operate all bombers, an HQ and 1 para at min. to Sicily after the fall of France (a maritim bomber could also be helpfull, as well as a fighter just in case). Place at best an italian sub to block both ports of La Valetta, and attack with the med. bombers first, best with those most experienced at first to keep losses down. Blocking the port will prevent the AA from being reinforced, the med. bombers will reduce entrenchement.

If the opponent decides to help Malta with the RN, sink his ships first with your bombers and the RM, then continue the attack. Usually 2 turns of good weather are enough to get the job done; doesn`t matter if a german or italian para is taking Malta or an italian corps via amphib.. Now one could send the not needed fighters and bombers to Bengasi on foot without further costs of operating, or attack Tunesia.

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Post #: 17
RE: Problems With Malta - 8/5/2017 6:09:21 AM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline 		Thank you, Commander Sugar, your post contains a perfect operative summary of how to carry out the Malta operation, I will keep it as a reference. I had read longer versions in this forum, and by far not as clear


< Message edited by GeneralFerraro -- 8/5/2017 6:13:43 AM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Problems With Malta - 8/5/2017 10:09:29 PM   
xriz

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/11/2008
Status: offline 		Why not allow paratroopers to jump on units in single hexes, like Malta. Allow one round of ground combat. If the Para's fail to destroy the defenders, the Para's are considered pushed off into the sea or captured, either way the Para unit is eliminated. A harsh result for poor planning and expedited real results for good planning.

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Post #: 19
RE: Problems With Malta - 8/6/2017 2:17:22 AM   
xwormwood


Posts: 1149
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xriz

Why not allow paratroopers to jump on units in single hexes, like Malta. Allow one round of ground combat. If the Para's fail to destroy the defenders, the Para's are considered pushed off into the sea or captured, either way the Para unit is eliminated. A harsh result for poor planning and expedited real results for good planning.


Some kind of "all or nothing" attacks would be nice. I wouldn't call such a jump (like you described) poor planning. Why not allow desperate attacks. May it be a para jump, and amphib landing or an all out assault. "All in", do or die. War nows situations like this, and often enought such attacks have been ordered, for several reason.

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Post #: 20
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