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best AI ? - 8/6/2017 9:20:51 AM

Mind

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I do not like play games as multiplayer/ PBEM, etc. I want play against AI. I noticed famous games series like Close Combat, Combat Mission give much more playing them human vs human. Could you give me an advice: 3 best choices of operational/tactical/strategic games with best AI? I prefer Modern, WWII or Ancients.

Post #: 1

RE: best AI ? - 8/6/2017 10:25:36 AM

salazarus

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I would say Decisive Campaigns is you best bet. I think Barbarossa is the best one, but Warsaw to Paris and Case Blue are also good. They all are operational.
For modern I would choose Flashpoint Campaigns it is grand tactical we-go game. Steel Panthers is also good choice for tactical game if you don't mind dated graphics or Tigers on the Hunt if you don'y mind quirky interface and board game feeling. Lock �n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad is also worth mentioning.
For ancient I would choose Alea Jacta Est if you like Ageods games or Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War.

(in reply to Mind)

Post #: 2

RE: best AI ? - 8/6/2017 11:30:06 AM

MrsWargamer

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There's no such thing as 'good AI' in war games. Either the game is so detailed the AI never had a chance, or it is simply beyond the scope of current game design.

Sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but I've played too many designs over too many years.

No idea why you specifically dislike playing human opponents. But that is where the challenge lives.

I've done beta for Steel Panthers campaigns. They are challenging, seemingly difficult, but the moment you use the rest of the program for something like Long Campaigns where you design your own starting force, well the game is like playing against a moron.

I've played major favourites like Strategic Command, and the AI is simply unable to handle the most basic strategic concepts.

Both the above games though against a human are totally incredible.

So the problem is some games are great purchases vs a person and a waste of time vs the machine.

I love playing Battle Academy, but the moment you have played a scenario more than 3 times, the surprises are over and the AI challenge vanishes.

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(in reply to salazarus)

Post #: 3

RE: best AI ? - 8/6/2017 11:38:57 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: salazarus

I would say Decisive Campaigns is you best bet. I think Barbarossa is the best one, but Warsaw to Paris and Case Blue are also good. They all are operational.

warspite1

+1 Currently getting my bottom handed to me by the AI on DC: Warsaw to Paris - and did so regularly with DC: Barbarossa too.

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Post #: 4

RE: best AI ? - 8/6/2017 12:35:41 PM

rico21

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I do not have any good AI to offer you.
But if you want a good game hard to win, HELL from Slitherine.

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Post #: 5

RE: best AI ? - 8/6/2017 1:01:32 PM

Zorch

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Chess.
The computer needs artificial dumbness to make it competitive.

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Post #: 6

RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 2:54:04 AM

aaatoysandmore

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You'll need a commodore 64 emulator but some really good wargames or like wargames are Centurion Defender of Rome and War of the Lance.

Modern day Command Ops, Panzer Command: Osfront (tactical) and Conquest Medieval (skill based not a dice rolling RNG game; might not be what you want but he AI is good on 4 and 5 settings)

Honorable mention is a little game called "HELL" the skirmish mode AI is not to shabby and the campaign AI will give you headaches.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 8/7/2017 2:55:04 AM >

(in reply to Zorch)

Post #: 7

RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 2:59:11 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

There's no such thing as 'good AI' in war games. Either the game is so detailed the AI never had a chance, or it is simply beyond the scope of current game design.

Sorry to sound like a wet blanket, but I've played too many designs over too many years.

No idea why you specifically dislike playing human opponents. But that is where the challenge lives.

I've done beta for Steel Panthers campaigns. They are challenging, seemingly difficult, but the moment you use the rest of the program for something like Long Campaigns where you design your own starting force, well the game is like playing against a moron.

I've played major favourites like Strategic Command, and the AI is simply unable to handle the most basic strategic concepts.

Both the above games though against a human are totally incredible.

So the problem is some games are great purchases vs a person and a waste of time vs the machine.

I love playing Battle Academy, but the moment you have played a scenario more than 3 times, the surprises are over and the AI challenge vanishes.

Much of the AI quality of a game depends on the player. Not everyone is you or me or plays like you or me. I too have been skeptical of modern day ai's but, there are some that are actually good.

So, to say there are no good ai's speak for yourself. There are some good ones out there because in my 35+ years of playing against them I have seen them.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)

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RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 3:08:20 AM

budd

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I'll echo was others have said, Decisive Campaign games, Command Ops and heard good things about Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War but haven't played it. i will never ever play "Hell" again, I finished the campaign but i think that is the most i have ever cussed out a game, that game was brutal for me.

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Post #: 9

RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 4:45:34 AM

Rebel Yell

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The AI created by Facebook had to be shut down when it invented it's own language.

Some day, the tech and code for the high dollar AI's will make it's way down to wargame companies and we'll see a quantum leap that might even make single player games challenging enough to be worth playing.

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RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 9:34:53 AM

altipueri

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I only ever play against the AI and I am generally very satisfied with the level of AI opponents.

If you find that you are so clever and ruthless that you can beat a game easily you should either curb your inner bully and make some house rules to favour the AI or, play chess against a computer because nowadays you will lose. In fact a program like Chessmaster will rank you and show you just how good you are, or not.

I think Command Ops has good AI, and I like it and Campaigns On The Danube for its play style.

I still enjoy the original Combat Mission games - I just have to try to ignore the suicidal infantry charges against me.

My ideal game would be a Campaigns On The Danube (Muskets and before) or a Command Ops style game with random scenario generator.

(in reply to Rebel Yell)

Post #: 11

RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 10:24:32 AM

demyansk

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I like Cmbb and cmak but they operate too slow on Windows 10.

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Post #: 12

RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 10:37:40 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

There's no such thing as 'good AI' in war games. Either the game is so detailed the AI never had a chance, or it is simply beyond the scope of current game design.

....

So the problem is some games are great purchases vs a person and a waste of time vs the machine.

...

For the OP, these have been recommneded but I'd say Flashpoint for a modern game (partly as both sides have a delayed order system), Campaigns on the Danube for Napoleonic (partly as both sides have a delayed order system) and AGEOD's AJE for ancient (like Pride of Nations its one of those games that the AI can play well).

There is a clue in there that the best vs AI games all have an order/turn resolution routine and the two best have very realistic orders (with delays, lost instructions etc). In effect, while you can learn to play both well, you can never min-max as something will always go wrong (for both you and the AI).

For Mrs W ... can I humbly dissent from your first statement and enthusiastically endorse the second.

Some games the command routine is such that the AI is not hampered (as above), in others I play for a bit of light fun (Strategic Command is an excellent eg, I can have fun vs the AI because I just play in a relaxed manner which suits the time commitment and the rule base).

But as an eg of the other, I'd never play AGEOD's Wars in America vs the AI. Partly as the sheer geographical scale, linked to very small armies (even in the tax evader's revolt scenarios and the war of 1812) means any AI will struggle. But its more because its just such utter fun PBEM. Burn down settlements, gamble on winter lifting early or arriving late, spend a campaign season setting up the next year, all the time worrying that your opponent has spotted a fatal mistake - quite simply nothing like it. I would play AJE or Pride of Nations vs AI as the rule set, unit density and geographical set up all make it easier for the AI to make reasonable decisions.

edit: others where the rules/scale/situation work to give good vs AI are War in the West, basically if you play the Allies its a problem solving exercise (a very complex one) and the AI copes well as the Axis side. Campaign Series is another modern tactical game where the AI is pretty good, but where you can usually work out the solution to a scenario so for long term play better against an opponent (though there are lots of scenarios). I found Brother against Brother (civil war grand tactical) to have a good AI but the choice of battles is less good (First Bull Run does tend to be repetitive).

< Message edited by loki100 -- 8/7/2017 10:43:58 AM >

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RE: best AI ? - 8/7/2017 2:18:54 PM

altipueri

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

I like Cmbb and cmak but they operate too slow on Windows 10.

Yes, keeping old XP or windows 7 PCs and laptops going is important.

(in reply to demyansk)

Post #: 14

RE: best AI ? - 8/8/2017 6:17:27 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I'll echo was others have said, Decisive Campaign games, Command Ops and heard good things about Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War but haven't played it. i will never ever play "Hell" again, I finished the campaign but i think that is the most i have ever cussed out a game, that game was brutal for me.

Lol; awww cmon it wasn't that bad was it?

I really enjoy the challenge of that game; it can be very hard for some I've read.

(in reply to budd)

Post #: 15

RE: best AI ? - 8/8/2017 6:28:15 PM

budd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I'll echo was others have said, Decisive Campaign games, Command Ops and heard good things about Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War but haven't played it. i will never ever play "Hell" again, I finished the campaign but i think that is the most i have ever cussed out a game, that game was brutal for me.

Lol; awww cmon it wasn't that bad was it? I really enjoy the challenge of that game; it can be very hard for some I've read.

That AI was a cheatin Sum Bitch

, you should of seen how fast i uninstalled it after i beat the campaign, light speed.

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RE: best AI ? - 8/8/2017 6:31:57 PM

budd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

I like Cmbb and cmak but they operate too slow on Windows 10.

i could never get the games to a wide screen aspect in Win 10, so i finally gave up on them. That square box, i just couldn't play with that. If I could get it to work i'd probably go reinstall and mod it again.I moved on to the new CM games.

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RE: best AI ? - 8/10/2017 12:19:25 PM

wodin

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You'll find the same games coming up every time this is asked.

Command Ops 1 and 2
Unity of Command (so I believe)
Ultimate General Civil War games seemed pretty good
Steel and Iron (with campaign expansion)
Rule the Waves
SSG games always seemed pretty good

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RE: best AI ? - 8/10/2017 1:15:22 PM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I'll echo was others have said, Decisive Campaign games, Command Ops and heard good things about Hannibal: Rome and Carthage in the Second Punic War but haven't played it. i will never ever play "Hell" again, I finished the campaign but i think that is the most i have ever cussed out a game, that game was brutal for me.

Lol; awww cmon it wasn't that bad was it? I really enjoy the challenge of that game; it can be very hard for some I've read.

That AI was a cheatin Sum Bitch , you should of seen how fast i uninstalled it after i beat the campaign, light speed.

Got your money's worth I bet.

Actually you wanna see another AI that will beat your azz on a regular basis try Gremlins Inc. Ruthless "normal" ai I've ever seen. To beat 5 or 6 ai opponents in one game is almost impossible. I really enjoy the challenge of that one also now that they fixed it.

< Message edited by aaatoysandmore -- 8/10/2017 1:17:22 PM >

(in reply to budd)

Post #: 19