Sonobouy Realism

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Sonobouy Realism - 8/3/2017 6:23:32 PM

Talisman

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

Hi,

I was recently playing around with some homemade airborne ASW scenarios, specifically Nimrods hunting in the GIUK gap and was struck by two things:

1. Currently CMANO seems to treat each and every sonobouy as an allied asset in it's own right (rather than a sensor belonging to a parent asset). As such, the bouy's sensing output is visible universally to all allied units until it scuttles. If true, perhaps this is a fair compromise for the sake of play-ability, but I fear it is placing unfair advantage in the hands of the allied commander, presiding over vast fields of staring sonobouys, irrespective of whether or not an allied ASW asset is around to pick up their transmissions. Perhaps a more realistic implementation could apply some additional logic, such as:

- only display bouy sensor output when in RF range of a suitably equipped allied unit.

- When multiple bouys are in range of such a unit, limit the number of bouy sensors displayed at any one time, in accordance with the RF channel handling and simultaneous monitoring capacity of said platform. Perhaps the 'active' or listening bouys could cycle, simulating the platform's operator switching between channels?

2. Currently, when I drop a bouy, regardless of platform altitude or bouy setting, the bouy is immediately live. My understanding is that in reality, 'shallow' bouys take around two minutes to go live once wet, and deep bouys about four. Add to that the decent time based on altitude and you have a fairly significant window in which an evading submarine could clear the datum...

If there are any ex-Orion or Nimrod or Bear Tacco's reading this, please feel free to wade in :)

Cheers!

Post #: 1

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/3/2017 7:33:32 PM

RoryAndersonCDT

Posts: 1830
Joined: 6/16/2009
Status: offline

Turn on Datalinks in the Map Settings window. The datalink from P-3 to the sonobouy is modeled.

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(in reply to Talisman)

Post #: 2

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/3/2017 7:47:39 PM

Talisman

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

Hey, thanks for the quick feedback!

Just tested it. No datalink equipped allied unit on scene, no feed from the bouy. Beautiful!

Under the hood is the model also taking bouy datalink range, simultaneous channel monitoring limits and deployment times into account?

(in reply to RoryAndersonCDT)

Post #: 3

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/4/2017 10:12:36 AM

AlGrant

Posts: 912
Joined: 8/18/2015
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Last time I checked the range wasn't modeled (at least not to the limits listed in the DB) but when new aircraft come on mission and one goes RTB the datalink will swap the new aircraft.

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Post #: 4

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/4/2017 12:57:17 PM

Talisman

Posts: 18
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline

Cool, I'll set up a few more tests and post my results.

(in reply to AlGrant)

Post #: 5

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/6/2017 11:38:16 PM

PaladinZeroSix

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/24/2014
Status: offline

Out of curiosity, what is the effect (in CMANO, not real life) of the existence of a datalink between a sonobuoy and the P-3?

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Post #: 6

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/6/2017 11:43:01 PM

Raptorx7_slith

Posts: 380
Joined: 7/27/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaladinZeroSix

Out of curiosity, what is the effect (in CMANO, not real life) of the existence of a datalink between a sonobuoy and the P-3?

If there is no aircraft in range of the sonobuoys data-link you won't get any information from them.

(in reply to PaladinZeroSix)

Post #: 7

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/7/2017 12:06:21 AM

PaladinZeroSix

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/24/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: raptorx7

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaladinZeroSix

Out of curiosity, what is the effect (in CMANO, not real life) of the existence of a datalink between a sonobuoy and the P-3?

If there is no aircraft in range of the sonobuoys data-link you won't get any information from them.

Thanks. So, as long as there is at least one sonobuoy-datalink-equipped receiving platform in range, the contact information from the sonobuoy is known to all friendly units in the scenario?

This probably deserves its own thread, but having searched the forum, as I understand it, all friendly units share a common operating picture ("COP") consisting of every track (friendly, enemy, neutral) perceived by any friendly unit anywhere. The only exception is that, with the recent update, a platform that loses ALL of its comms capabilities neither shares this global COP nor contributes its own sensor contacts (or even its own location/status) to the COP. Is my understanding correct?

I'm trying to understand how tactical datalinks like Link 16/22 or Cooperative Engagement Capability are modeled in CMANO, since they are reflected in various platforms' database entries.

< Message edited by PaladinZeroSix -- 8/7/2017 12:07:35 AM >

(in reply to Raptorx7_slith)

Post #: 8

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/7/2017 12:39:55 AM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Reading some of the documentation and a quick search of the forum...

http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4076 It is fully explained in this article how CEC

It has also been discussed multiple times that, beyond some of the comms disruption capabilities, creating multiple sides allows you to bring units, groups, services, and countries into and out of comms fully. It is a combination of the comms disruption, events, and LUA. It has to be done setup in the scenario editor, but is not too difficult. I have been playing around recently with letting units not get sonobouy information based on comms and events. I have also built 1960s-era recon missions where the info gathered is not available until an aircraft returns to base or some set time after an overflight. So there are numerous capabilities in-game to limit intel and comms. edit: forgot to mention a key part is LUA side-switching.

I would suggest if you think a topic deserves its own thread, go ahead and do it. Leaving it at the bottom of this thread will lead to no one seeing it eventually in searches.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 8/7/2017 12:49:39 AM >

(in reply to PaladinZeroSix)

Post #: 9

RE: Sonobouy Realism - 8/7/2017 1:31:08 AM

PaladinZeroSix

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/24/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Reading some of the documentation and a quick search of the forum...

... It is fully explained in this article how CEC

It has also been discussed multiple times that, beyond some of the comms disruption capabilities, creating multiple sides allows you to bring units, groups, services, and countries into and out of comms fully. It is a combination of the comms disruption, events, and LUA. It has to be done setup in the scenario editor, but is not too difficult. I have been playing around recently with letting units not get sonobouy information based on comms and events. I have also built 1960s-era recon missions where the info gathered is not available until an aircraft returns to base or some set time after an overflight. So there are numerous capabilities in-game to limit intel and comms. edit: forgot to mention a key part is LUA side-switching.

I would suggest if you think a topic deserves its own thread, go ahead and do it. Leaving it at the bottom of this thread will lead to no one seeing it eventually in searches.

Thanks. Interesting article re: CEC.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 10