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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 8:11:00 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Time to identify weak spots along the Chinese MLR and concentrate some troops to break through. Canton and Hong Kong may be relatively easy prizes if he has started to move too much east.
I am sure that your landing has upset his supply line to China using Shanghai port so he will be fighting at a disadvantage soon.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11701
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 9:53:08 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Are there still Japanese mines to clear at Ningpo?

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 11702
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 10:11:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
Are there still Japanese mines to clear at Ningpo?


When Ningpo flipped to the Allies, John's mines became my mines - friendly. However, John sewed mines there after the flip. My DMSs have been working to clear them the last two turns.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 11703
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 10:21:27 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/25/44

Gents, if you're reading both AARs, you'd better not respond to this post at all. I might be able to read between lines in this situation.

11th Airborne Division: Looking for possible para-drop targets.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11704
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 11:26:21 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Mines are a terrible thing to waste.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11705
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 11:42:44 PM   
perkinh


Posts: 181
Joined: 2/7/2010
From: Central, NC
Status: offline 		So after after a couple of years away i felt the tingle again. So to scratch that itch..... i decided to read the biggest AAR on the block, and i was not disappointed. Thanks for the good read, and i hope to begin on Johns side next. It is my hope that the itch will subside and i can avoid falling back into my pension for destroying trees with copious notes and plans, that just get disrupted by a brilliant opponent or a bad weather role. Kind of like binge watching on HULU....no waiting. Good Luck!

_____________________________

One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine.... is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 11706
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 11:54:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for commenting. You must be a glutton for punishment or a graduate of the Evelyn Wood School of Speed Reading to make it through the Encyclopedia Pacifica: Ensign's Edition.

(in reply to perkinh)
Post #: 11707
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/7/2017 11:57:54 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		If he's neglected any of those areas, it would be fantastic to drop a Division - I think it would definitely be a shock to his system....

Good luck & remember, fortune favors the bold.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11708
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 1:01:31 AM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		In every game I've played to date, one of those bases was targeted as my "End-game" base. I won't tell you which one, but it's a dandy for a great many reasons :) Unfortunately, having always played Allies, I've always suffered the "just got into '43, the big-fun is over for the Japs, so they just disappear" curse.

_____________________________


(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 11709
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 4:20:13 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Moppo would not be useful to you from a strategic bombing perspective, as it would be constantly harassed. However, you could probably farm that for VPs as well. Just not as many as an aerial campaign with 2Es/4Es and fighters.

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 11710
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 8:45:11 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Time to identify weak spots along the Chinese MLR and concentrate some troops to break through. Canton and Hong Kong may be relatively easy prizes if he has started to move too much east.
I am sure that your landing has upset his supply line to China using Shanghai port so he will be fighting at a disadvantage soon.

I suspect that MLR is pretty strong but if John is going to contest the coastal invasions or prepare to fight inland he has to start pulling troops form there. One wonders if he will make an all out effort to take Lingpo back or assume that CR is moving up and over to Shanghi

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11711
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 10:23:57 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I have yet to airdrop an entire division in this game.
How many squadrons are assigned the task?
How long will it take?
How much will reach the destination before an LRCAP intercept starts to attrite the effort?
Where are the best and worst possibilities of heavy LRCAP intercept?
What other factors matter?

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 11712
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 1:41:58 PM   
Flicker

 

Posts: 229
Joined: 11/24/2011
From: Rocket City USA
Status: offline 		CR - nice job so far. Love to see the word Shanghai! Also like the Korea plan and hope it might lead to Manchuoko and Soviet activation.

Although I've read John's AAR and commented on health issues, I'd like to offer a comment that I don't think violates Opsec. Consider an airdrop on Hwaiyin if it triggers reinforcement by the '8th Prov Chinese Corps' (37 AV available from Apr 43), or if the LCU is no longer available (I'm unclear whether or not ground unit availability expires), then consider dropping at dot base Pengpu to sever the rail line.


(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 11713
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 2:20:08 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Flicker

CR - nice job so far. Love to see the word Shanghai! Also like the Korea plan and hope it might lead to Manchuoko and Soviet activation.

Although I've read John's AAR and commented on health issues, I'd like to offer a comment that I don't think violates Opsec. Consider an airdrop on Hwaiyin if it triggers reinforcement by the '8th Prov Chinese Corps' (37 AV available from Apr 43), or if the LCU is no longer available (I'm unclear whether or not ground unit availability expires), then consider dropping at dot base Pengpu to sever the rail line.




Inland bases are out. CR has said that he needs to be able to reinforce by sea.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Flicker)
Post #: 11714
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 2:53:45 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		There are a lot of possibilities, and some are just coming to mind now. But the core of the original idea was the possibility of seizing an unoccupied coastal base with big potential. That would require only a small paratroop detachment followed up by a large reinforcing operation by sea. That is still my preferred plan, though the odds of finding a vacant base are small.

If I do find such a base, though, the op might expand considerably to create as much uncertainty and stress as possible. Under that scenario, I might drop small detachments on a bunch of bases/dot hexes to disrupt as much communication and supply flow as possible.

But if the original plan isn't viable because John's bases are all garrisoned, then I'll probably not disclose the presence of 11th Air Division. I'll keep it "secret" in hopes an opportunity will arise later.

The air division has about 170 AV but only has 1942 paratroop squads. The unit is set to upgrade but hasn't. I don't know how my pool looks for '44 paratroop squads. It should be good since I haven't done anything with paratroops in two years. But it really doesn't matter since I don't plan to use the unit for anything other than unoccupied targets. For that mission, '42 squads is sufficient.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11715
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/8/2017 3:31:23 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Those squads come in slow. You will definitely need to break down the division to upgrade it, and even then there might not be enough until much later than you want.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11716
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 12:37:37 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Sound like a MacAurhtur plan, use airborne to seize a distant objective then reinforce quickly by sea.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 11717
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 12:48:51 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Sound like a MacAurhtur plan, use airborne to seize a distant objective then reinforce quickly by sea.

quote:

Sound like a MacAurhtur plan, use airborne to seize a distant objective then reinforce quickly by sea.
Well that is kind of the thing I would be worried about. You have to take the fleet up into a sea that is surrounded by potential airfileds and then keep running supply up. At this point you assume he will not take the shrink wrap off the KB but it would be interesting if he unleashed all his aircraft and tried to bottle you up in there. Couple of bad die rolls and you have some cripples to get out of the arroyo. rewards are great, as his supply to China is eventually cut. Interesting

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 11718
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 2:31:11 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10/26/44

Paint crashed and ate my first exciting diagram. Then the Forum ate my first exciting post. So I'm cutting my losses and going with just this:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 11719
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 5:05:38 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		After you stabilize the Ningpo-Shanghai region, you might consider using that Airborne Div. on Amami Oshima - bypassing Okinawa and minor islands for now. Great place to have fighter escorts for your bombers. There is a weak naval fort there and he may not have added much infantry support there.

BTW, I am not sure Night Fighters can sweep enemy bases. The Black Window has a good radar but intercepting and dogfighting with a fighter at night is gonna be near impossible.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11720
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 5:56:08 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I have yet to airdrop an entire division in this game.
How many squadrons are assigned the task?
How long will it take?
How much will reach the destination before an LRCAP intercept starts to attrite the effort?
Where are the best and worst possibilities of heavy LRCAP intercept?
What other factors matter?


At this stage in the game, it's not actually that hard. You can airdrop everything that can be airdropped with ~250 transport planes or thereabouts, and those numbers are easy to get with just a little effort. The main constricting factors are:

1) Airfield size/stacking
2) Having the division at said airfield in the first place

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 11721
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 8:37:33 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		There is a free program that is far superior (and still just as simple to use as) MS Paint. It is called Paint.net https://www.getpaint.net/download.html

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 8/9/2017 9:28:28 AM >

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11722
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 2:18:56 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I have yet to airdrop an entire division in this game.
How many squadrons are assigned the task?
How long will it take?
How much will reach the destination before an LRCAP intercept starts to attrite the effort?
Where are the best and worst possibilities of heavy LRCAP intercept?
What other factors matter?


Every transport you can put your hands on-three to four hundred at least. You really want the bulk of the divsion to go in on the first wave to take advantage of the shock effect.

The aim is to gain surprise so that LRCAP is not a factor. However, an landing like that should be preceded by sweeps and massive bombing attacks, as well as putting your own LRCAP over the target. This should wear out the LRCAP if it happens to be present. The bigger threat is massive AA concentrations. Heavy bombing to ensure disruption. If there is air combat between fighters as a result of a supply or para drop, I have seen massive losses on both side but there is never a combat animation.

If 100% prepped and supported by a massive bombing effort, a high experienced division can defeat a full Japanese brigade on any clear terrain city hex.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 11723
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 3:19:06 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Moppo would not be useful to you from a strategic bombing perspective, as it would be constantly harassed. However, you could probably farm that for VPs as well. Just not as many as an aerial campaign with 2Es/4Es and fighters.


How so? With the potential for level 9 port and level 9 airfield and 4 hexes from 6 major bases (not including that heavy urban city)... I don't see how it could be harassed effectively. Mosquito bites and pin-****s, sure... but I think the positives outweigh that. Canoe can put up too much CAP and too many mines. It would make a great springboard to get to other Korea bases....and also it can start knocking down the 8k Manchuko Garrison requirement and possibly activate the USSR "much sooner", possibly bringing the war to an end much much faster than just strat bombing would do.

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 8/9/2017 3:20:46 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11724
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 4:21:37 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline 		Dan, I would like to express once again my appreciation for the time and effort that you spend on this AAR. I am in January 1944 on my very first PBEM. I have learned so much from this AAR and the discussions that take place within its pages. Thank you sir, for the fine efforts. And thanks to the Peanut Gallery for their contributions as well.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11725
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 5:58:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Ace (in reply to Loka): Under the peculiar circumstances of this game, I would've taken Moppo had it been vacant. Loka is right that Moppo is vulnerable to strong enemy attacks by sea and air due to proximity to the Home Islands. But the threat would be considerably diminished with Death Star on patrol.

Dave: Thanks to all of you for reading and offering helpful or encouraging comments. I appreciate the Forum and all forumites, even on the occasions I come across snippy. Best game ever. Best gaming community ever.

(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 11726
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 7:20:32 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		Either way you go, you can nuke Japan from Formosa :)

I think going to Korea would continue the excitement of the match. It would create a fun schwerpunkt for the end game in which you could crush Japan once and for all. It would be more "interesting" then mopping up the back areas of the DEI/Nam/Malaysia (you know that's just going to be a boring "bomb bomb bomb invade deliberate attack, next base please" without much "fear factor" in it.)

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 11727
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 7:38:21 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Either way you go, you can nuke Japan from Formosa :)

I think going to Korea would continue the excitement of the match. It would create a fun schwerpunkt for the end game in which you could crush Japan once and for all. It would be more "interesting" then mopping up the back areas of the DEI/Nam/Malaysia (you know that's just going to be a boring "bomb bomb bomb invade deliberate attack, next base please" without much "fear factor" in it.)

I agree with you, but it just doesn't seem right for the audience to tell the director how to make the movie!
CR is extremely solid in his planning and tight execution of ops, but a "knight's gambit" type of move is not in his comfort zone unless he knows how good his odds are.
I am very happy to watch what solid play looks like and watch the spectacular gambles in other AARs.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 11728
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 7:48:49 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
watch the spectacular gambles in other AARs.


Hmm., Horrywood? Cough. Cough.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 11729
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 8/9/2017 10:00:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I understand the feeling very much - invade Korea and things remain hot and exciting; back off and things may be comparatively dull.

Into the medium term, there is no doubt now that I'm going to focus on China and Hainan Island. Indochina, Malaya and Java will follow. Somewhere down the road, Korea or Hokkaido may figure in.

The war in China should be interesting; but to me the most interesting aspect of the game to Forumites is when, where and why John will commit KB.

I used to read Sports Illustrated regularly. It was an incredibly well written magazine back in the '90s. I found that my taste in articles was counterintuitive. Rather than enjoying reading about the Yankees and the Cowboys and the Lakers, I most enjoyed reading about teams/franchises for whom the wheels had come off.

Why? I dunno. But I'm going to try to knock the wheels off the Empire, so that it comes to a whimpering sad end.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 11730
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