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New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and Deadly

 
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New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and Deadly - 8/9/2017 1:39:47 AM   
Gunner98

 

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This one jumps back in time from the scenarios in Norway and represents the first in a series covering the retaking of Iceland.

This scenario is playable by NATO:

You are the CO of the Force Recon Battalion of 2nd MEF (Marine Expeditionary Force) and you will be leading a risky para drop onto Iceland tonight. If all goes well you will link up with the landing elements of the two assaulting Marine Regiments by this time tomorrow. A quick scan of the Drop Zone names however, reminds you that on operations such as these things don’t always go right!

I look forward to your comments and critiques.

enjoy.

B

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< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 8/9/2017 1:42:43 AM >
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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/9/2017 2:17:15 AM   
Badlandz

 

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Ok, downloaded.
Quick check. Noticed two markers for each of Sondrestrom and Nuuk airfields. If it's intentional I don't understand the purpose.

Thanks
Ed

Edit :Forgot to add that Thule is named Group 7513.

< Message edited by Badlandz -- 8/9/2017 2:30:19 AM >

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/12/2017 9:50:28 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks Badlandz

The double markers for the two bases are shadow contacts. You should be able to select them both, hit 'P' to drop the contacts and the real base will reappear instantly while the shadow will disappear.

Will fix Thule

Tx

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/12/2017 10:49:27 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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A quick question: the briefing says there should be 6 MC-130P from 9th SOS (plus two from 15th SOS) at Thule, but there are only 4. Which number is correct?

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/12/2017 11:21:55 PM   
gabravo2005

 

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I haven't looked at the scenario yet, but I intend to, but I don't know if it says so in your briefing or anything but Force Recon units are designated Companies, yet are commanded by a Lt Col. The "regular" Division Recon Battalions are also commanded by Lt Col's.

Can't wait to give this scenario a go though!

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/13/2017 12:12:54 AM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

6 MC-130P from 9th SOS


Typo in the brief - 6 total, 4 from 9th SOS and 2 from 15 SOS.

Enjoy

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/13/2017 12:15:10 AM   
Gunner98

 

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I didn't realize that the Coys were comd by Lt Cols. In this scenario you have 1 Coy with the Bn HQ and some attached Marine Raiders.

Perhaps a bit non-standard. The next scenario (name still undecided) will have another Coy of Force Recon.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/13/2017 2:32:31 PM   
Primarchx


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I'm given two AC-130s to lend support but have no intel on the Soviet forces on Iceland. Since an escort of 8 x F-15s is provided as escort I assume the airspace is contested. The SAM situation isn't spelled out but I assume it is still dangerous, as well. Not a spot you would normally deploy gunships.

ETA we also get Flankers going out to attack CSG a/c unchallenged. They get shot down after they attack but still get into firing position to down Hawkeyes.

ETA2 the sole KC-135 over Greenland was not able to refuel all 8 F-15As and the Combat Shadow tankers don't have refueling booms.

< Message edited by Primarchx -- 8/13/2017 4:15:10 PM >

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/13/2017 10:41:43 PM   
gabravo2005

 

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There were no Marine Raiders in the 90's. The modern Raiders are something that have come about in the last decade.

Now a days with a Marine Special Operations Command all of the stand alone active duty Force Recon companies were deactivated, most of the Force Recon operators became CSO's in MARSOC.

The Force Recon capability did not necessarily go away, all division recon battalions (think Generation Kill) were increased in size by one company, which is called Force Reconnaissance Company. This is so that divisions still have access to a deep reconnaissance asset.

Sorry for kind of hijacking this thread lol. Love your scenarios by the way

< Message edited by gabravo2005 -- 8/13/2017 10:42:13 PM >

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/15/2017 1:35:55 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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Here's a quick question. What altitude is it realistic to drop paratroopers and supplies from?

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/15/2017 6:40:44 AM   
Maromak


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Usually 1,000ft or even lower during an actual conflict.

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Certa Cito

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/15/2017 9:23:25 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Have never been inclined to jump out of a perfectly safe aircraft but I believe a jump altitude of between 600-800ft is routine combat operations with supply slightly higher.

There are a few jumpers on the forum who should be able to confirm or deny that though.

B

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/15/2017 3:09:33 PM   
Maromak


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Yep 600ft - won't be needing that reserve chute!!

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/16/2017 2:36:23 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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Are Marine F-18 pilots trained to land on carriers? (He asked hopefully, staring at a dwindling fuel gauge...)

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/16/2017 8:52:57 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Yes

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/16/2017 4:52:25 PM   
Schr75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Have never been inclined to jump out of a perfectly safe aircraft


Amen to that.

I have been a pilot for 28 years and always found it a lot easier to just land the plane, instead of relying on gravity, luck and a piece of folded linen in a backpack.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/16/2017 9:22:20 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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"A quick scan of the Drop Zone names however, reminds you that on operations such as these things don’t always go right!"

Playthrough #1

(The scenario actually starts with carrier-based CAP getting tangled up with Russian ELINT and CAP in the Keflavik area, and the Russians then moving to engage support aircraft in the carrier group. I restarted, went into the NATO side, and put the carrier CAP on a tighter leash to avoid this.)

Initial launch and refueling went well, and the formation moved towards Iceland in good order. My thought was to pick off support aircraft from the north, and try and draw off any defending fighters in that direction and destroy them before the C-130s came in from the west.

On the ground one of the SOF reported BMDs patrolling in the drop zone area, so the F-18s were tasked to overfly those zones before the drop. Then the BMD actually spotted the SOF and destroyed them (basic optics at night, with no thermals, vs carefully hidden infantry – what were the odds?). Either bad luck, or something going wrong.

A pair of Eagles went in first, staying low then popping up to destroy both Su-24s. There was no response at first, but then after a couple of minutes things started erupting all over the place. The Eagles knocked off a couple of Mig-23s in the NW, and made a nasty discovery. The Russians have been ordered to push their attacks without evading, and they don’t turn aside to dodge incoming missiles. This means they’re not abandoning their own SARH missile shots. No free rides simply by putting a Sparrow down the bearing any more.

Now the main group of Eagles finds itself facing Flankers and Fulcrums, with an enemy ground based jammer fuzzing things up between my planes and their planes. My jammers are there too, but all they’re doing is preventing the Su-27s from using their Alamo-Cs at long range where I might be able to dodge them. Now they’re only firing well inside the no-escape zone! Still, I manage to shoot the enemy down at the cost of almost all my Sparrows.

The C-130s are down at wavetop height now, and the F-18s fly in to start working over the drop zones, killing the jammer and clearing the first two zones. That’s when the Russians surge their fighters, and suddenly I’m facing fresh Flankers, Fulcrums, and Foxhounds all at very close range. C-130 vs Mig-31? Hell no. The call goes out to abort.

The C-130s wheel about and flee as best they can. The F-18s try and dodge the salvo of incoming heavy missiles, nape-of-the-earth and beaming on afterburner, but all four of them are lost in quick succession. The F-15s press in using their last few Sparrows, and then they switch to Sidewinders as they try to cover the retiring C-130s. Several Eagles are shot down, but they manage to take down the most dangerous pursuers, and the C-130s flee into the night. None are lost, and the valuable troops on board survive to fight another day. Meanwhile the remaining Russian fighters patrol over Reykjavik…


Could I have gotten in? Maybe… I’m pretty sure it would have cost me all my Eagles to try and take out the fighters. Even one surviving enemy fighter could take out a few of the C-130s, and I would have been facing opposition on at least two of the drop zones. If there’d been two more fresh fighters popping up it would have been enough to make it a complete massacre. (And it turns out that there were a lot more than 2 available…)

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/16/2017 9:25:55 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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What's this scenario called? Swift, Silent, and Deadly? All right then, let’s have another go…

Playthrough #2

This time the C-130s come in first at very low level from the north, and the enemy surveillance planes and ground patrols are left alone. The F-18s are up north behind the C-130s, and the Eagles are patrolling off the west coast. There’s been a bit of air-to-air skirmishing in that area (some with the carrier), but not a lot.

The C-130s get to their drop zones undetected, pop up to 900 feet, and unload their troops, before diving again and retreating. Some hop over the ridgeline and head west along the fjord towards the Eagles, one heads back north along its original route, and some swing south towards the carrier group.

Now that the troops are on the ground they need protection in their drop zones, and the F-18s come in low using their night vision pods to find and attack the Russian patrols. This goes well, and soon two F-18s head west for the Eagles, and two head south towards the cover of the carrier group.

The F-18 attacks seem to be what prompts the Russian response, and swarms of fighters take off shortly after the first bombs hit. The Eagles immediately engage, but in many cases they are out-ranged (Alamo Cs, AA-9), and as more enemy take off they soon become outnumbered too. The Eagles do a fighting retirement to the west, saving the retreating F-18s, but the C-130s in the area have a problem. Now that the enemy fighters are up and their radars are on the C-130s are easily visible (despite my jammers), and they’re not far enough away yet to be safe, or fast enough to outrun the approaching foe. The Eagles do what they can with their remaining missiles, but some are shot down nonetheless.

A similar problem faces my retreating F-18s and C-130s in the south. They had been relying on low-level evasion to escape towards the carrier, but once the enemy fighters are airborne my planes are painfully obvious on radar. Carrier-based fighters try and help, but the fighters pouring out of Keflavik interfere enough that they can’t save all the C-130s. Ship-based SAMs start engaging too, and that, combined with an F-14 surge, is just enough to save the F-18s (fleeing on fumes), which barely make it to the S-3 tanker. (I took manual control of allied forces in this area.)

The final result in this case is much better. The troops and supplies are safely on the ground, and local Russian patrols have been destroyed. A good number of enemy aircraft have been destroyed, including some very valuable MiG-31s. The Combat Talons took severe losses, but only after dropping their troops. Overall, the mission is graded a success this time.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/16/2017 9:31:04 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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This is a very interesting scenario, requiring stealth and self-control (ahem) to achieve mission objectives. My usual overt ‘I can take you in the air’ methods don’t pay off here. If you’re sneaky you can get in. The real trick is getting out again. If you don’t engage immediately with the F-18s then you can probably get the C-130s out intact, but then you run the risk of losing your troops in the drop zones to enemy ground forces. How long can you afford to wait? Again, this is a really good scenario for forcing the player to evaluate the situation and make the proper decisions to ensure success.


The Carriers

I think the biggest issue at the moment is the pair of carrier groups. They’re very close to the enemy coast, but very weakly defended, with only four Sparrow-armed planes on CAP missions, despite known enemy fighters with longer-ranged weapons in the area. The way the missions are configured on the WP and NATO sides means there will soon be fighting near the carriers, and those defences are insufficient.

The Vinson’s CAP will try and engage the Su-24 ELINT planes immediately after they launch, chasing them across Iceland, which in turn prompts a response from defenders in the Kef/Ryk area that gets them shot down in short order. Once the Russians are airborne they easily spot the support aircraft in the carrier group (E-2s, EA-6s, etc.), which they will engage successfully. Similarly, the Russian aircraft on the other side of Iceland (particularly the Mig-31) will spot the Eisenhower’s carrier aircraft and move to engage, without any effective response from the carrier forces. If the scenario is started and the AIs are allowed to do their thing you will routinely lose multiple Hawkeyes, which seems unrealistic given the fighter strength which the carriers should be able to use to prevent this.

Later on, when the Russian’s launch their big intercept mission, the Vinson carrier group just sits there and offers no additional support, despite the very lucrative target (the swarm of enemy fighters they have to fight tomorrow anyway) which is only minutes away. In my case a good part of that fighter surge came south towards the carrier while they were chasing the C-130s, but the numerous ready fighters which could have intercepted the enemy remained unavailable. Tanker support, responsive movement and activation of the EA-6 jammers, and similar support functions are not available either.

I’d suggest putting the carrier groups on the player side, but keeping all the aircraft which are set aside for tomorrow’s operations on an allied side, just like they are now. The player would have control of support assets (tanker, jammer, ASW, AEW) and some fighters (perhaps 6-8 F-14s) that are set aside for CAP duty. The player could use special actions to obtain additional fighters (more F-14s with Phoenix, F-18s with AMRAAM) at a points cost, just like you have done with the strike aircraft. (A very nice mechanism, incidentally. Assets available, but at the cost of disrupting your future operations. It feels like a realistic constraint.) This way the player can have the carrier groups and their aircraft respond sensibly to the enemy actions, while preventing unintentional engagements.

If you would prefer the carrier groups to remain on the AI side, then I’d suggest some adjustments to the missions. Support aircraft patrols (Hawkeye, EA-6, etc.) would be moved further out to sea, and positioned so the carrier group is between them and the airbases. Carrier group SAMs would be changed to Weapons Free, to allow them to immediately engage enemy aircraft attempting to reach the support aircraft. More aircraft would be assigned to CAP missions (minimum 6), and CAP mission zones and permissions would be adjusted to keep them defensively near the carrier, instead of allowing them to go hunting over Iceland. Turning off investigating outside patrol area would be helpful, for instance. (Adjusting the Russian CAP to keep them out of the carrier group might also be desirable from the Russian perspective – would they really want to intrude on a carrier group with all its defences?)


Assorted Items

Carrier aircraft will try and refuel from the distant tankers off towards Greenland, and they can get pulled well out of position, or into dangerous locations. Forbidding them to refuel would probably keep them closer to the carriers they are meant to defend.

Ship-based SAMs and the CAP could benefit from being on Weapons Free, since there’s no possibility of civilian aircraft coming out to interfere with the carriers.

The Eisenhower doesn’t have any AIM-7Ms in its magazines to re-arm its CAP.

Both the NATO and WP sides in this scenario have auto-evade turned off. I’m not sure if this was intentional. I think this has actually made the Russian fighters more dangerous in this situation (usually I can count on the AI to flinch first in a SARH duel). However, it also means that other aircraft (allied support units, WP elint missions, etc.) make no effort to elude missiles, and WP aircraft still won’t dodge even when they’re not illuminating, when it would be to their advantage to do so.

One RP in the Vinson CAP prosecution zone is not set as relative.

The description for the F/A-18 w Mk 82 special action says ‘CLONE’ at the start.

Perhaps have the EA-6 jammers active?

Had you wanted the ASuW Strike mission to still be set up? It’s set for pre-planned targets only, but the list is empty, so it won’t launch. (Left over from a different scenario, I guess?)


< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 8/16/2017 9:52:20 PM >

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/17/2017 12:24:10 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Thank you for another great report Andrew. The dilemma of what to do with the carriers was one of the big issues with building this scenario. Still a bit of work to make it right but I thought the player would be getting a bit board with the CVGBs by now so wanted to focus on the Para insertion.

Won't be able to look at it in any detail until next week, when I should be able to release the next one as well. Some really good suggestions so thanks a lot.

B

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 8/26/2017 4:26:24 PM   
Gunner98

 

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OK here is a revised version. I've kept the Carriers under AI control but have addressed most of the points brought up.

As always, very keen to get your comments.

Enjoy.

B

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 9/25/2017 5:22:50 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Anything else on this one guys?

Thanks

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RE: New Scenario for Testing NF 11.2 Swift, Silent and ... - 12/18/2017 10:26:45 PM   
Gunner98

 

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OK guys have changed this one up a bit. Juggled a few of the WP events and gave the player another Special Action to play with.

Enjoy

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