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RE: WitE 2 - 8/7/2017 7:53:37 PM   
RedLancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

Maybe you can get Jison to do the map once it's been finalised.
Manstein63


He's not interested and the graphics are completely different. The WitE map is made up of tableaus whilst WitE2 is a mosaic.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Manstein63)
Post #: 1351
RE: WitE 2 - 8/7/2017 8:02:59 PM   
Templer_12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer...The WitE map is made up of tableaus whilst WitE2 is a mosaic.

Time for a short teaching lesson?

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Post #: 1352
RE: WitE 2 - 8/7/2017 8:09:00 PM   
Sammy5IsAlive

 

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline 		Are all of the rivers in the WITE2 shot now minor rivers? If there are still some major ones then there needs to be much more contrast between the two (as there is in the WITW map).

The lakes look a lot better, which I think is really important from an aesthetic point of view.

I'd have both forest tiles looking a bit 'heavier' myself - at the moment I'm not sure if there is a big enough contrast between clear and light woods. Part of me wonders whether there should be an additional tier of 'dense' woods to represent the Taiga in the north which was a full blown wilderness environment compared to areas like the Ardennes which was heavily forested but with plenty of infrastructure/shelter. Maybe that aspect is dealt with by the differing levels of road infrastucture that was shared a while back?

For what it is worth I would still miss the current WITE map, which I think is much more attractive. Although I can appreciate how increased complexity in gameplay areas such as logistics/air war/weather necessitate a map that to an extent prioritises function over attractiveness.

I do prefer the town/city graphics you get in Jison's map mod compared to the dots you get in WITE base game and in WITW.



< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 8/7/2017 8:30:31 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 1353
RE: WitE 2 - 8/7/2017 8:37:35 PM   
RedLancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer...The WitE map is made up of tableaus whilst WitE2 is a mosaic.

Time for a short teaching lesson?


Naturlich...

War in the East uses a tableau map. The art is drawn in large graphic files. These are relatively easy to draw and finish to a high standard, but it is difficult to change the map if there is a mistake. It is hard to match to the underlying code so that the right art matches the correct hex attributes.

War in the West/E2 is a mosaic. Each hex has its own art and attributes. The map text is separate too. In the editor (with full functionality enabled) I can (and am doing so for witE2.0) move cities, rivers, terrain and rail lines around the map with ease and the art follows suit. However as it is a mosaic the art is tied to each of the hexes but I can change that as I want too. Having a mosaic makes blending to a high standard more challenging so the final product is more difficult. It does allow us to have a living map - the text changes as you zoom which is a bonus.

The reason we changed was not only to expand the map to the west and have a more editable construct but also the new map uses much less memory so the game runs much faster.


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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1354
RE: WitE 2 - 8/7/2017 8:51:11 PM   
RedLancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Are all of the rivers in the WITE2 shot now minor rivers? If there are still some major ones then there needs to be much more contrast between the two (as there is in the WITW map).

The lakes look a lot better, which I think is really important from an aesthetic point of view.

I'd have both forest tiles looking a bit 'heavier' myself - at the moment I'm not sure if there is a big enough contrast between clear and light woods. Part of me wonders whether there should be an additional tier of 'dense' woods to represent the Taiga in the north which was a full blown wilderness environment compared to areas like the Ardennes which was heavily forested but with plenty of infrastructure/shelter. Maybe that aspect is dealt with by the differing levels of road infrastucture that was shared a while back?

For what it is worth I would still miss the current WITE map, which I think is much more attractive. Although I can appreciate how increased complexity in gameplay areas such as logistics/air war/weather necessitate a map that to an extent prioritises function over attractiveness.

I do prefer the town/city graphics you get in Jison's map mod compared to the dots you get in WITE base game and in WITW.




All the rivers in the new screenshot are minor. As I hope my response to Templer indicates some things are really easy to change and mod to personal preferences. The mosaic map is excellent in that respect. I have considered changing the towns from dots but other things have priority. For example we are currently looking at adding road graphics although my major task at the moment is adding elevation shading to the map. It has no impact on gameplay but looks more interesting. You can see a bit in the screenshot.

I still have an idea to get Pavel to code the woods to change colour by season. The art setup has the scope to be adjusted to match and would allow the scope to have thicker conifer forests. Anything is challenging though as there are 134190 hexes.


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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Sammy5IsAlive)
Post #: 1355
RE: WitE 2 - 8/8/2017 3:04:24 PM   
Capitaine

 

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Status: offline 		Very impressive improvements, Red Lancer. Excited about the new product.

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Post #: 1356
RE: WitE 2 - 8/8/2017 6:59:01 PM   
Commanderski


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quote:

I still have an idea to get Pavel to code the woods to change colour by season. The art setup has the scope to be adjusted to match and would allow the scope to have thicker conifer forests.


Not a requirement for the game but I would love to see that!

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Post #: 1357
RE: WitE 2 - 8/11/2017 5:48:09 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

Anything is challenging though as there are 134190 hexes.


Not all of these are woods although :)

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Post #: 1358
RE: WitE 2 - 8/11/2017 7:05:22 PM   
Templer_12


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Status: offline 		Which feature will impress us the most?

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Post #: 1359
RE: WitE 2 - 8/11/2017 7:06:53 PM   
Zorch

 

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Status: offline 		How about swamps so realistic you can feel the mud?

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RE: WitE 2 - 8/11/2017 8:07:40 PM   
RedLancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

How about swamps so realistic you can feel the mud?


If you have an idea PM me. I've been experimenting with improved swamp terrain but I've not found anything better.

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1361
RE: WitE 2 - 8/11/2017 9:10:35 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

How about swamps so realistic you can feel the mud?


If you have an idea PM me. I've been experimenting with improved swamp terrain but I've not found anything better.

I'm quite happy with WitW graphics. It's not a big deal to me - I'd rather the effort was put into aspects.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 1362
RE: WitE 2 - 8/20/2017 8:52:39 PM   
xxCLASHxx


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From: England
Status: offline 		Wow just been reading a huge chunk of this thread, some great debates going on for WitE 2. There is always a lot of maths involved with this type of game and therefore it is feasible that once you have found a working formula you could win verses AI each time. I appreciate that playing a person changes that but for many it will remain the AI.

My question and first post in the forum is this - Is there a way of FOW throwing up variances that would be influential enough to prevent a formula win but yet still be simulatory realistic - A simulation usually represents as closely as possible the actual realism of the day, so adding in unexpected random factors may veer from this.

I say this understanding that you can crank up the bias for either side but what if there was an option for a different way to tax the player v AI where perhaps units were deployed differently or bad Stalin or Hitler decisions were changed. What if you play as Russia and the 6th army does not stay and perish but actually retreats in good time and good order.

I always wonder how it would of effected Germany if they had not paused on the destruction of the BEF at Dunkirk and whether this would have released units to the Eastern front later in the war.

Thanks - Shaun

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Post #: 1363
RE: WitE 2 - 8/21/2017 2:50:45 PM   
RedLancer


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Status: offline 		WitE 2 has an events system where you can add occurrences that then impact elements of the game such as unit withdrawals, available APs etc. The conditions for events to be triggered are not just time related but also geographical and player related. There is also the ability to add a probability to the event occurring. This provides the scope for much more flexibility in gameplay.

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1364
RE: WitE 2 - 8/21/2017 3:07:26 PM   
Telemecus


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Status: offline 		I am curious how broad this system could be. For example could it track diplomacy? I know one of Hitler's reasons for holding on to the Crimea for as long as possible was to entice Turkey to join the war. Even if not coding in Turkish armed units could you have a scenario where Axis supply could come in through the South Caucasus. Or if the Axis reach a broad stretch of the Volga could this trigger a Japanese attack on Russia (meaning units heading East?) Will this events system be modifiable in the editor?

I appreciate that WitE is not meant to be a game with diplomacy etc involved, but it is interesting to see how much other possibilities could be recreated.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/21/2017 3:18:34 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 1365
RE: WitE 2 - 8/21/2017 3:21:19 PM   
RedLancer


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Status: offline 		The system is pretty broad in its scope and probably can do at least some of what you suggest - not sure about supply through Caucasus. We already have events that mimic the events in the West to regulate how much you need to put into the Theatre Boxes. You can do the same for the Soviets. It is absolutely editable.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1366
RE: WitE 2 - 8/21/2017 3:36:42 PM   
xxCLASHxx


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Status: offline 		Thank you Red Lancer - that sounds really interesting, I often wondered why Japan did not leave the US alone and carve Russia up with Germany.

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 1367
RE: WitE 2 - 8/21/2017 6:40:45 PM   
Omat


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Status: offline 		Hello

Mybe one reason was the battle of Battles of Khalkhin Gol...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

Omat



quote:

ORIGINAL: xxCLASHxx

Thank you Red Lancer - that sounds really interesting, I often wondered why Japan did not leave the US alone and carve Russia up with Germany.



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(in reply to xxCLASHxx)
Post #: 1368
RE: WitE 2 - 8/22/2017 1:51:12 AM   
Joel Billings


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxCLASHxx

Thank you Red Lancer - that sounds really interesting, I often wondered why Japan did not leave the US alone and carve Russia up with Germany.


You can always get Gary's World at War: A World Divided which is a global WWII strategy game (like Axis & Allies but on steroids). It allows you to explore possibilities like the one you mention. It's on sale for another day or two as part of the Digital Board Game sale. It's nothing like War in the East though.

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Post #: 1369
RE: WitE 2 - 8/22/2017 11:15:02 AM   
xxCLASHxx


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Japan - Russia

Yes this was a really interesting read and explains much, of course it was also noteworthy to see the appearance of Zhukov too.

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Post #: 1370
RE: WitE 2 - 8/26/2017 9:15:42 AM   
miv792

 

Posts: 159
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Status: offline 		1.I do not know whether it was mentioned, but I would very much like to put the mouse on the air base and see the text to whom this air base is subordinated.
Не знаю упоминалось ли, но очень бы хотелось навести мышь на авиабазу и видеть текст кому эта авиабаза подчинена.
2.Also it would be desirable to completely disconnect the air battle with reconnaissance for both sides. Too tiring and insignificant.
Также было бы желательно полностью отключить воздушное сражение с разведкой для обеих сторон. Слишком утомительно и незначительно.

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Sorry for my english

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Post #: 1371
RE: WitE 2 - 8/27/2017 4:50:10 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: miv79
2.Also it would be desirable to completely disconnect the air battle with reconnaissance for both sides. Too tiring and insignificant.
Также было бы желательно полностью отключить воздушное сражение с разведкой для обеих сторон. Слишком утомительно и незначительно.


It is possible to set the message level to 1 or less to not see any battle results from recon. And you can do your sides whole recon by pressing AI in the air recon mode i.e. one click to do the lot. Getting the AI to do your recon with the message level 1 on, even if not eliminating recon from the air war, will reduce it to mere seconds.


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/27/2017 4:51:13 PM >

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Post #: 1372
RE: WitE 2 - 8/28/2017 10:11:42 AM   
miv792

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
It is possible to set the message level to 1 or less to not see any battle results from recon. And you can do your sides whole recon by pressing AI in the air recon mode i.e. one click to do the lot. Getting the AI to do your recon with the message level 1 on, even if not eliminating recon from the air war, will reduce it to mere seconds.


The problem is that when you press 1, why then the air attacks are also not visible, not counting the recon.

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Sorry for my english

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Post #: 1373
RE: WitE 2 - 8/28/2017 12:15:59 PM   
RedLancer


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Status: offline 		In the WitW Air Directive Summary Screen you can toggle in the far right column (Exec Detail) whether it shows during the phase. Set ADs you don't want to see to NONE.

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1374
RE: WitE 2 - 8/28/2017 12:50:40 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: miv79
The problem is that when you press 1, why then the air attacks are also not visible, not counting the recon.


Are you sure? When I press 1 I can see all air missions except recon?

During your action phase you can toggle to 1 for when you do recon and back up again afterwards?

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RE: WitE 2 - 8/28/2017 1:57:25 PM   
miv792

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
In the WitW Air Directive Summary Screen you can toggle in the far right column (Exec Detail) whether it shows during the phase. Set ADs you don't want to see to NONE.

How else would this be done for the enemy :)
I just want to see the bombing of enemies, without seeing their scouts.


< Message edited by miv79 -- 8/28/2017 1:59:39 PM >

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Post #: 1376
RE: WitE 2 - 8/28/2017 2:02:10 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: miv79

How else would this be done for the enemy :)
I just want to see the bombing of enemies, without seeing their scouts.



Do you mean in the battle results mode when you click on battles to see what happened, rather than watching it as it happens? There I agree it would be nice to filter out the recon battles and see everything else alone.


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 8/28/2017 2:04:40 PM >

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Post #: 1377
RE: WitE 2 - 8/28/2017 4:44:43 PM   
miv792

 

Posts: 159
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		Meant when there is a window with a fight, when the enemy mustangs fly on a reconnaissance mission. Although I pressed the key 2, with the key 1 there is no battlefield with bombers. Although your idea is also good, because it's also not very good when you see so much intelligence :)

< Message edited by miv79 -- 8/28/2017 4:51:56 PM >

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Post #: 1378
RE: WitE 2 - 8/31/2017 4:39:12 PM   
RforRush

 

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Status: offline 		Will there still be script in WitE2 generating additional retreat casualties for Soviet player till start of September? It doesn't look realistic in a way implemented now in WitE1.

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Post #: 1379
RE: WitE 2 - 8/31/2017 5:34:19 PM   
RedLancer


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Status: offline 		I don't know but I don't think so. I say this because things change weekly.

I think I should stress once again that WitE2 is very, very different from both WitE and WitW. For a start the combat engine has been completely redone by Gary and Jim (Jaw) has redone the data based on his Steel Tigers work.

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1380
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