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Today's Forcast on SPWAW - 5/26/2001 11:28:00 PM

DFourthHorseman

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Hi. I have noticed something about SPWAW 5.01 when I'm playing the long WWII Campaign. The weather now in Europe has lots of low visiblity, so when I'm assaulting, with a visibility of 4, I constantly get my tanks blown up by GIs when I use em. Is this a bug or something? I mean whats the point of having tiger tanks if they constantly get blown up by cheap soldiers. Thnx Ruibing

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- 5/27/2001 12:05:00 AM

Slind

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Joined: 5/25/2001
From: SLN, Finland
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Even Tigers aren't invinsible...

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- 5/27/2001 12:12:00 AM

Gen. Maczek

Posts: 72
Joined: 5/9/2001
From: Tychy, Poland
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But I think the point being made is that the weather conditions and visibility are s**t a bit too often, in which case I would agree. Or perhaps we are just both unlucky... Regards Gen. Maczek

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- 5/27/2001 2:05:00 AM

Warrior

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I remember the summer I spent in Germany with the Army. It was constantly cold & rainy. Sounds like the game got it just about right. P.S. It's also wise to send infantry ahead of the armor.

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- 5/27/2001 3:07:00 AM

Arralen

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quote:

Originally posted by REMF: I remember the summer I spent in Germany with the Army. It was constantly cold & rainy. Sounds like the game got it just about right. P.S. It's also wise to send infantry ahead of the armor.

Bit of bad luck I would say... in both cases. Weather isn't always that way here .. not even mostly, during the summer, that is. An idea that just comes to my mind - why not dig out old weather reports and put the correct weather in ??! A.

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- 5/27/2001 3:30:00 AM

Igor

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July 19, 1944. Scattered clouds at dawn, brief midday thunderstorms, clear by nightfall. Visibility 1,200 meters. Scattered outbreaks of rockets and shells throughout the day, with local flurries of bombs...

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- 5/27/2001 4:57:00 AM

Yogi Yohan

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Agree, visibility is far to short. Unless there is either fog, heavy rain or snowfall, you can see as far as you have line of sight. Moderate snow or rain should still let you see some 20-35 hexes (1-2 Km). Even at night you can have rather good visibility if there is strong moonlight, but on a cloudy night, visibility will be next to nill. (And that's why you have flares! Any chance of getting flares, burning vehicles and the like provide visibility?) My case being, visibility is way to short in most generated daylight scenarios (and in many non-generated as well). I'd say about half of what it should be. One of the reasons I belive there is some disenchantment with the Tiger/Panther performance out there is that they can seldom fight at the range they're most efficent at, due to unrealisticly bad visibility. I mean, if we were fighting in Britain, yes I can see fog constantly impairing vision, but otherwise... :)

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- 5/27/2001 11:39:00 AM

DFourthHorseman

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Yeah I it is part of the war and I should send soldiers ahead of my tanks. But using heavy infantries is too slow, cavalry and cycle and sky infantry are too weak, infiltrators most of the time don't make it over to the place when they are needed, and paratroopers gets constantly shotup by flaks and etc. So its really hard making infantry work. I feel bad for the infantry under the AI command, cause they usually move so slowly without any support or anything, suicidal even, but I guess thats part of war too. If they would keep visibility between 10 and 40, ill be a happy desktop general :) . War doesn't have to look glorious with shiny tanks and planes, but DAMN DON'T THEY LOOK GOOD?!? Thanks Ruibing

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- 5/27/2001 9:33:00 PM

Stukadawg

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The only way I've been able to deal with nothing but low visibility is to use multiple save slots for a campaign. That way when I get a mission that doesn't seem right to me I just start over. Its a hassle because I have to re-upgrade my army each time that happens. I've been getting almost nothing but delay and defend missions with favorable weather, every time I advance the visiblity is less than 300 yds. I trick myself into accepting the delay missions by rationalizing that my units are ahead of the main thrust and are countering units that are attempting to counter attack the main force.

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- 5/27/2001 11:37:00 PM

Wild Bill

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The strength of the Tiger is long distance shooting and killing with that dreaded 88. The Russians and US forces found that out quickly. At close range it too became vulnerable, much more vulnerable. Thus with low visibility the Tiger has definitely been partially defanged :eek: WB

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- 5/28/2001 4:38:00 PM

Arralen

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Isn't it possible to load the 'deployment phase' of the generated battles into the editor and adjust the weather settings without disrupting the campaign generation (o.c. you must copy the files from 'save' to 'scen' and back) ?? But there's one drawback with good visibility - if set over 23 you'll see through one hex of woods .. o.k. in winter scenarios maybe, but really strange otherwise .. A.

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- 5/28/2001 8:00:00 PM

Gen. Maczek

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quote:

Originally posted by Yogi Yohan: ...(And that's why you have flares! Any chance of getting flares, burning vehicles and the like provide visibility?)...

Good idea, it could be done by adding a flare mission button to the artilery and mortar commands, but whether the game engine could suport it is another matter...

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- 5/28/2001 10:01:00 PM

bumper

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Absolutely have to agree. After playing my 6th mission with visibility below 10, I just reloaded and reloaded until I had one with 'normal' visibility. Two of the 4 europe battles were night missions, my second desert battle as well.... I tried this multiple times, but only got a 10+ visibility about 1 in 4 times at most. :rolleyes: I think this should be either tweakable or adjusted, To be honest, I see no point in having to edit a battle every time before I can play it

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- 5/29/2001 9:35:00 PM

timc

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I'm a former infantryman, so I like night battles. I've downloaded 5.01 but I haven't installed it yet. However it sounds like Matrix has corrected the bug in 4.5 in which weather apparently had no effect on visibility in generated (long campaign) battles. Every time I got a sandstorm with movement of 1 hex per turn for infantry, but visibility of 27, I reloaded until the sandstorm went away. I suspect I will prefer the new version.

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- 5/30/2001 2:07:00 AM

Jasper

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Ever wonder why they put the AAMG on Elphant. Because Tiger, Elphant, Jadgpanther, the rest of the heavy german tank are designed for long range duel not close combat. Close combat in urban area, the infantry is the king. The engine of these monster still required to breath. A petrol bomb in the opening of the engine is good enough to stop it and forced the crew to run for their life.

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- 5/30/2001 3:50:00 AM

jambo1

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Personally, I like the new weather routine, especially as it pertains to night/lowlight times of day. I have lived in Europe and LOWVIS conditions can be common (the modern armies in Europe have thermal to offset this problem.) Although I too would be curious to know what the average weather was back then. As for tactics, I certainly have more reason to practice combined arms tactics and even buy more infantry, instead of arty. In LOWVIS conditions, on the advance/assault RECCE is worth it's weight in gold (although they'll never reach elite status) cheap armoured cars up front will save alot of Tigers etc. I've also taken to riding infantry on my lead tanks. This helps alot in an ambush. On delay/defend infantry up front supported by armour close by, to the rear (watch your flanks too), suppress those tanks and get them to button up then whack'em with an 88. I've also found that if I sight my arty in behind where in can see and wait for the first platoon or 2 to show up, then open up out of visual range in behind them, it will NOT make their day. Arty suppresses now way better than before. Just my thoughts, hope this helps.

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- 5/30/2001 3:53:00 AM

Mumdaan

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I kinda like the mix of visibility i've gotten so far in a couple campaigns. I just make certain i'm clear on the conditions before i spend my support points or deploy my forces. Nothin more discouraging than to be tank-heavy in 1 hex conditions :P

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- 5/30/2001 3:54:00 AM

Arralen

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quote:

Originally posted by Casper: Ever wonder why they put the AAMG on Elphant. Because Tiger, Elphant, Jadgpanther, the rest of the heavy german tank are designed for long range duel not close combat. Close combat in urban area, the infantry is the king.

It's Anti-A[/]ircraft-MG. It's historical .. as well as the 'abuse' against enemy inf. which happens to pop up nearby ... :) A.

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- 5/30/2001 4:08:00 AM

Kluckenbill

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Personally I hate fighting night engagements in SPWAW because of the very short visibility. But in reality, they did fight at night and in those days before thermal sights (even before Infra Red) even well trained and experienced troops had great difficulty in carrying out night attacks. I could tell some very embarassing "war stories" about my own blundering about in the dark while in the Army in the '70's. :cool:

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- 5/30/2001 4:14:00 AM

john g

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quote:

Originally posted by Stukadawg: The only way I've been able to deal with nothing but low visibility is to use multiple save slots for a campaign. That way when I get a mission that doesn't seem right to me I just start over. Its a hassle because I have to re-upgrade my army each time that happens. I've been getting almost nothing but delay and defend missions with favorable weather, every time I advance the visiblity is less than 300 yds. I trick myself into accepting the delay missions by rationalizing that my units are ahead of the main thrust and are countering units that are attempting to counter attack the main force.

So the advance scenarios you are getting have a vis of 6 hexes? I guess that my Japanese 1930's long campaign would not have appealed to you, all but two battles with a vis of 4 or less. You can make that low visability work for you. Keep your troops moving and move them inbetween the enemy. This is assuming that you are not playing with 10000 points per side and do have some areas of the map that you can sneak between enemy units. If I am playing with 5 victory locations I can always find a protected valley or wooded area to help me get behind the front line troops and make it to the victory hexes without going through a standup fight. When the vis is abysmal like 2-3 you just have to be more on the alert for ambushes, but to make up for that problem towed at guns are worthless. If a tank blunders up on one, just back up a hex and keep that distance from it until you get around it. You just have to make that visability work for you not against you. Think of it as a very large smoke bomardment that has gone on too long. Just be glad Matrix has reworked some of the aircraft routines so you no longer get hit by ai aircraft that come in with all-weather attack capability like we suffered with back in v1 and v2.x. In a night sandstorm with 3 vis, aircraft would still come over and attack, that isn't supposed to happen as much anymore. thanks, John.

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- 5/30/2001 9:58:00 AM

Stukadawg

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It depends. The first few night missions were exciting. But then it seemed like every mission was going to be a night mission. I like night missions sometimes but I also like tank duels. Actually I like tank duels more. I have good tank/infantry tactics for taking hills and clearing woods... ...but every mission was coming up a night mission or poor weather. I guess its a matter of preference... like the flame job I want to give my Panzer 3s... jack up the back... some chrome running wheels...

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