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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/9/2017 5:05:20 PM   
1EyedJacks


Posts: 2244
Joined: 3/12/2006
From: The Eastern Sierras
Status: offline 		Maybe push in the Pacific and grab what islands you can? I'm kind of in a similar boat with you but the mod i'm in is much different...

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TTFN,

Mike

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1471
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/9/2017 6:29:07 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

I am surprised they [Soviets] are still flying so effectively; deeper pools than I imagined.


They have pretty much an unlimited supply of aircraft, as you find out if you play the Axis side in WITE. But their pilot pool should be under enormous pressure, and I don't know that it is.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1472
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/9/2017 9:05:55 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

I am surprised they [Soviets] are still flying so effectively; deeper pools than I imagined.


They have pretty much an unlimited supply of aircraft, as you find out if you play the Axis side in WITE. But their pilot pool should be under enormous pressure, and I don't know that it is.

Never played wite, but this is wiptae and the editor suggests that they have very limited plane production ....

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Pax

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 1473
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/9/2017 10:17:04 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

I am surprised they [Soviets] are still flying so effectively; deeper pools than I imagined.


They have pretty much an unlimited supply of aircraft, as you find out if you play the Axis side in WITE. But their pilot pool should be under enormous pressure, and I don't know that it is.

Never played wite, but this is wiptae and the editor suggests that they have very limited plane production ....


Pax is correct, but the starting Soviet planes outnumber Japan's air force, was in position with good runways, why Japan has had to really scratch to get into any kind of position to fight....and the one monthly production to really worry about is the 16 Mig3 a month, considering I cannot shoot any of them down yet.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1474
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/9/2017 11:54:52 PM   
paradigmblue

 

Posts: 784
Joined: 9/16/2014
From: Fairbanks, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

In general, since the Soviets have activated I feel like each turn I am bogged down and the invasion bonus is frittering away on me....



Yeah, well, you are fighting for survival in '42 ... not taking territory. Singers/Palem/Balik ... after that, you have to shore up your eastern flank if possible. Then the PI. Set up a blocking line in N Thailand. I don't se you getting Java unless you are able to seriously turn the air war around against the SOV. I am surprised they are still flying so effectively; deeper pools than I imagined.



I don't think that Lowpe has had the chance to cause much attrition yet vs. the Soviet air force. Once he does, he'll have a much easier time. It's very easy to run out of MiG-3s as the allies if the Japanese player is aggressive with sweeps. Even if Lowpe loses 2 Zeroes for every MiG, Obvert is going to run out of MiGs before Lowpe runs out of Zeroes.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1475
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 2:01:06 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		That's what I would have thought would be happening already. I'm guessing that Erik is disbanding groups to keep as many at full strength as he can ... but a chink should show soon ... one would think ...

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Pax

(in reply to paradigmblue)
Post #: 1476
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 1:36:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Feb 18, 1942

Today's Lightning sweeps came after the Zeroes intercepted the Allied bombers over Johore Baru. Shot down a few Mitchells for 1 zero lost. The good news is only 7 Lightnings swept.

Invasion force assembling off Toyohara this next turn, but my railroad blockers are almost all gone. Perhaps they can survive another day, don't know.

A deliberate attack at Lashio finds a Chinese division...

Ground combat at Lashio (62,46)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25660 troops, 202 guns, 58 vehicles, Assault Value = 813

Defending force 15504 troops, 70 guns, 60 vehicles, Assault Value = 430

Japanese adjusted assault: 247

Allied adjusted defense: 745

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
381 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 52 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Allied ground losses:
854 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Imperial Guards Division
33rd Division
15th Army

Defending units:
3rd Burma Rifles Battalion
13th Burma Rifles Battalion
BFF Brigade
Mandalay BMP Battalion
5th Chinese Corps
102nd RAF Base Force
Burma Command
100th RAF Base Force

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1477
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 1:39:14 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have no counter for these guys. It is not a question of trading 2 Zeroes for 1 Mig. I have been able to shoot one down and 2 to ops losses.

Morning Air attack on Kotou , at 116,42

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
MiG-3 x 24

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x MiG-3 sweeping at 27000 feet


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1478
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 1:42:55 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Sumatra...

Allies are bombing the divisions forcing the river crossing...Zeroes and Oscars are fighting in the skies to protect them.

Singers is a festung, 120 fighters, 80 bombers, 80K troops, nasty forts, hundreds of mines.






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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/10/2017 1:43:06 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1479
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 1:47:59 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Maybe push in the Pacific and grab what islands you can? I'm kind of in a similar boat with you but the mod i'm in is much different...


Really nothing to be gained there...other than diluting Japan's strength.

Push a little in the Aleutians when I can, and perhaps Midway, but to be honest I at this point I am not seeing it.





(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1480
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 1:56:25 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have no counter for these guys. It is not a question of trading 2 Zeroes for 1 Mig. I have been able to shoot one down and 2 to ops losses.

Morning Air attack on Kotou , at 116,42

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
MiG-3 x 24

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x MiG-3 sweeping at 27000 feet



Yeah, 50mph faster is a lot ... and you cannot get a numbers advantage on them (yet) as you are so strapped for fighters everywhere. and the Oscar/Zero DUR is so low that even the 2x7mm guns of the Mig3 are enough to kill ...


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Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1481
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 2:09:34 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I have no counter for these guys. It is not a question of trading 2 Zeroes for 1 Mig. I have been able to shoot one down and 2 to ops losses.

Morning Air attack on Kotou , at 116,42

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
MiG-3 x 24

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x MiG-3 sweeping at 27000 feet



Yeah, 50mph faster is a lot ... and you cannot get a numbers advantage on them (yet) as you are so strapped for fighters everywhere. and the Oscar/Zero DUR is so low that even the 2x7mm guns of the Mig3 are enough to kill ...



I wish it were 50 mph difference, but against a Zero with Symons mod it is 66mph, and 91 against the Oscar Ic.. Their weak spot is the 18 mnvr down low, but the speed difference does offset that.

I need numbers and infrastructure, and at this point don't have either as almost all my runways with the Soviets are size 1. Until about a week ago, I was critically low on Aviation engineering units too. I got several as a reinforcement...but I am still am very low.

I have my first big cap trap against the Soviets this turn, about 80 Zeroes and Oscars. But there is absolutely 0 aviation support present (will arrive at the end of the day I hope), but it is a rail road base so I will rail the planes out on the morrow.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/10/2017 2:11:45 PM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 1482
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 6:07:10 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Ouch and Good Luck!



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Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1483
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:28:38 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Feb 19th, 1942

Hit...




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(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1484
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:30:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		A battleship speaks!

2 sub attacks but both miss...




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1485
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:34:46 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Not a great fighter turnout, I guess having 0 aviation support at the fighter's base causes that.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1486
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:38:56 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Our fighter trap works well...really better than I thought with 0 aviation support. Those pilots must be tired!




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1487
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:41:39 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Soviets targeting the Toyohara invasion fleets, go get Claude! Those 7.7 caliber holes are adding up!




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(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1488
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:42:06 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Zeros are the perfect match against the SB2 ... those 20mm will knock them down and the I-15 can't catch you ... all you need is about 500 more A6M's flying ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1489
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:44:16 PM   
paradigmblue

 

Posts: 784
Joined: 9/16/2014
From: Fairbanks, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Soviets targeting the Toyohara invasion fleets, go get Claude! Those 7.7 caliber holes are adding up!





MBRs are the Soviet patrol plane. Fairly short range and small bomb load.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1490
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:45:04 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Yankee go home.




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1491
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:46:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Take that you worthless swine!




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1492
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:50:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Dropping two 50Kg bombs from 1000 feet...only one makes a run.

I am so glad I cap trapped those lousy torpedo bombers yesterday...80-100 of them over the water would have been nasty. Probably have that to worry about tomorrow.

The last of the railroad blockers is destroyed by Soviet bombing...






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(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1493
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:54:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Banner day in the air...even got a Mig3 to op losses!




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(in reply to 1EyedJacks)
Post #: 1494
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 10:59:59 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Destination Toyohara!




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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1495
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 11:03:03 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		This is what running fighter squadrons on LRCAP at 70% does to you with 0 aviation support. Do you think this was gamey?




Just look at those pilots, some are really awful!

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1496
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 11:19:08 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		For the medium and long term Lowpe is doing much better in the air than he is being credited.

1.  The Allies are front loading their best assets at the front at the expense of long term health.  Those forked devils can only be present on the front lines by downgrading existing restricted stateside units.  The point overlooked is that (a) they are not fully equipped with forked devils but will consume a full TOE of downgraded aircraft, and (b) most of those restricted air units completely lose all their aircraft when withdrawn.

2.  It is extremely rare to find overall Allied air losses to be greater than Japan.  Japanese players seem to take it as a badge of honour to have far heavier losses yet there is no sound reason why in 1942 a properly conducted Japanese air campaign should not at least break even with overall Allied air losses.

3.  Those SB-2 losses to the CAP trap represents about 16% of the entire SB-2 stockpile.  Like most 1941/42 Soviet models, there is no replacement production of the SB-2.

4.  Using the MBR-2 on naval attack is very dubious.  It will be years before there is any Soviet replacement production for any patrol aircraft type.  As I said the Allies are frontloading at the expense of long term health.


The one thing I would remind Lowpe is about the value of moving into Mongolia and striking towards Lake Baikal which I mentioned some time ago.  Light forces from China, which will not reduce the assets along the Amur, can be used to achieve disproportionate results and indirectly assist the Amur defences.

Alfred       

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1497
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 11:23:36 PM   
paradigmblue

 

Posts: 784
Joined: 9/16/2014
From: Fairbanks, Alaska
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

This is what running fighter squadrons on LRCAP at 70% does to you with 0 aviation support. Do you think this was gamey?


Not at all, but I usually fall into "if the mechanics allow it, then it's a valid tactic" camp.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1498
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 11:25:56 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Our fighter trap works well...really better than I thought with 0 aviation support. Those pilots must be tired!



The level of aviation support is not really relevant for day 1 air operations as its impact is on subsequent days in terms of ability to service damaged aircraft. Of far greater relevance for day 1 operations is the distance involved in the transfer for that both impacts on the number of aircraft damaged on the transit flight plus whether any air operation will be undertaken at all on the transfer date itself.

Alfred

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1499
RE: Soviets Activated.... - 9/10/2017 11:34:17 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		British bombers are eating me up alive in northern China, where I went too far without AA.

Need AA to arrive for the Mongol operation to move forward, but I am working on it and a counter to the Soviet thrust.




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(in reply to paradigmblue)
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