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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome

 
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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 5:52:19 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks Dinglir. Game to date is what I'm after, not turn.

This is my calculation on the I-type monoplanes from T1:

All Polikarpov monoplane formations
I-16 T5 2
I-16 T18 28
I-16 T24 46
I-16 T29 5
3,359 a/c deployed
711 a/c in reserve
4,070 a/c total

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 9/4/2017 5:56:18 PM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 61
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:07:53 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		If it helps I have a template for the Soviet airforce that includes start airframes, airframes in arriving airgroups, and data entry points for lost/ produced each turn etc. Probably Dinglir also has his own version as a spreadsheet too. If you are starting down that road it maybe silly to redo the whole thing a third time when it has been done twice already.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 62
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:12:15 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		I must admit I never bothered to do the math on the I-Type fighters.

On the I-16 Type 24 alone, the Soviets will have some 2574 spread over starting Air Groups, Reinforcements and the Reserve Pool.

I just figured I would never get "through" them before the Soviets had enough good fightera available.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 63
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:17:22 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline

I have some spreadsheets set up as the "total" solution with vlookups, pivot tables etc. for all the data points for all types. So at least I have them there built in as an option if it is something to track. Whether you actually do or not depends on whether it is worth it I guess. I like to have everything ready if I do, and just leave blank or cut out if I do not.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 64
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:17:32 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Losses by turn seven (on select airframes) were:

MiG-3: 993
Yak-1: 195
LaGG-3: 137

I-153BS: 312
Su-2: 256
IL-2: 328
U-2VS: 0

SB-2: 1132
DB-3B: 53
IL-4: 225

SB-2 Rcn: 222

It's in the spreadsheet I distribute with the AAR (requires Excel to read it of course)

< Message edited by Dinglir -- 9/4/2017 6:20:26 PM >

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To be is to do -- Socrates
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Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 65
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:24:36 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Well please change the "Total" lettering to white on grey instead of that red. I don't read as well as I used to!


(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 66
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:26:01 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus



I have some spreadsheets set up as the "total" solution with vlookups, pivot tables etc. for all the data points for all types. So at least I have them there built in as an option if it is something to track. Whether you actually do or not depends on whether it is worth it I guess. I like to have everything ready if I do, and just leave blank or cut out if I do not.



I need to re-learn how to do that cool macro stuff and use pivot tables.

This is a sample of my ho-hum airplane data on simple notepad.

VVS Start Turn 1

FFB Regiments 124

29 Polikarpov biplanes (23.4%)
I-153 23
I-15bis 6
1,970 deployed
790 in reserve
2,760 total

65 Polikarpov monoplanes (52.4%)
I-16 T5 2
I-16 T18 23
I-16 T24 37
I-16 T29 3

30 2nd gen fighter bombers (24.2%)
LaGG-3 6
MiG-3 22
Yak-1 2

FFB Battalions 38

15 Polikarpov biplanes (39.5%)
I-153 11
I-15bis 4

16 Polikarpov biplanes (42.1%)
I-16 T18 5
I-16 T24 9
I-16 T29 2

7 2nd gen fighter bombers (18.4%)
MiG-3 5
Yak-1 2

All Polikarpov biplane formations
I-153 34
I-15bis 10
1,970 deployed
790 in reserve
2,760 total

All Polikarpov monoplane formations
I-16 T5 2
I-16 T18 28
I-16 T24 46
I-16 T29 5
3,359 deployed
711 in reserve
4,070 total

All 2nd gen fighter bomber formations
LaGG-3 6
MiG-3 26
Yak-1 4
1,258 deployed
710 in reserve
1,968 total

All FFBs
6,587 deployed
2,211 in reserve
8,799 total

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 9/4/2017 6:31:15 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 67
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:29:23 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		If it helps I use the lookups etc just to pull the scenario data in. But for each game I start with a template which has those numbers hard pasted in. The only formulas after that are plus, minus divide etc. So if it is just a running totaliser with the scenario data for v1.10 I have it set up in an easy format. Even if you do not have excel you can read it with free downloads apache office or libre office - and I think even in the preview screen of dropbox.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 68
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 6:30:04 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Well please change the "Total" lettering to white on grey instead of that red. I don't read as well as I used to!




Your wish is my command (but not until turn 13).

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 69
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 7:50:35 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

If it helps I use the lookups etc just to pull the scenario data in. But for each game I start with a template which has those numbers hard pasted in. The only formulas after that are plus, minus divide etc. So if it is just a running totaliser with the scenario data for v1.10 I have it set up in an easy format. Even if you do not have excel you can read it with free downloads apache office or libre office - and I think even in the preview screen of dropbox.


Left on Eight Multiplayer Game Dropbox (Temp) for M60A3TTS - anyone else interested PM me.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 70
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/4/2017 9:45:24 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

If it helps I use the lookups etc just to pull the scenario data in. But for each game I start with a template which has those numbers hard pasted in. The only formulas after that are plus, minus divide etc. So if it is just a running totaliser with the scenario data for v1.10 I have it set up in an easy format. Even if you do not have excel you can read it with free downloads apache office or libre office - and I think even in the preview screen of dropbox.


Left on Eight Multiplayer Game Dropbox (Temp) for M60A3TTS - anyone else interested PM me.



Sooooooooooooooo...... I don't use spreadsheets in my games. Guess I'm behind the power curve of paper pushing ;-P Will it make me a better player at the game?

_____________________________


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 71
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 9:36:22 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Sooooooooooooooo...... I don't use spreadsheets in my games. Guess I'm behind the power curve of paper pushing ;-P Will it make me a better player at the game?


I did think a team game of spreadsheeters versus back of the pants planners would be interesting. Spreadsheet team : Dinglir, EwaldvonKleist, TopEverest, Telemecus? Back of the Pants side: HardLuckYetAgain ....?


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/5/2017 11:38:33 AM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 72
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 11:49:40 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Sooooooooooooooo...... I don't use spreadsheets in my games. Guess I'm behind the power curve of paper pushing ;-P Will it make me a better player at the game?


I guess a game such as WitE just has a certain "attraction" for data and spreadsheet nerds like myself.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 73
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 12:10:41 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		By my reading of Hardluckagains posts it seems he is not a pure seat of the paints intuition type of player. Hardluckagain is searching through the OOB for the optimal solutions for the problems on the game board using math -- albite in his head not in columns and rows.
Also simply using the commanders reports is a spreadsheet of sorts. ;)

So I guess the contest is those that use external tools to track details from turn to turn, which WITE does not do well. I guess spreadsheets also allow for tracking and visualizing trends like man gun ratios. Somebody keeps track of the hexes where units ended each turn ..

Hypothesis .. those that manage the details the best win GG games :)

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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 74
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 12:44:17 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Sooooooooooooooo...... I don't use spreadsheets in my games. Guess I'm behind the power curve of paper pushing ;-P Will it make me a better player at the game?


I did think a team game of spreadsheeters versus back of the pants planners would be interesting. Spreadsheet team : Dinglir, EwaldvonKleist, TopEverest, Telemecus? Back of the Pants side: HardLuckYetAgain ....?




OH NO! NO way! I'm not getting into another game because of a wild idea ;-P

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(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 75
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 12:49:58 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Sooooooooooooooo...... I don't use spreadsheets in my games. Guess I'm behind the power curve of paper pushing ;-P Will it make me a better player at the game?


I guess a game such as WitE just has a certain "attraction" for data and spreadsheet nerds like myself.




If it works for you then GREAT :) From certain avenues I can see the benefits but it really boils down, for me at least, time & effort to what is gained.

_____________________________


(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 76
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 1:15:29 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
By my reading of Hardluckagains posts it seems he is not a pure seat of the paints intuition type of player. Hardluckagain is searching through the OOB for the optimal solutions for the problems on the game board using math -- albite in his head not in columns and rows.

Undoubtedly true - but not as likely to needle HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
OH NO! NO way! I'm not getting into another game because of a wild idea ;-P

Needles need sharpening!

I think the lessons from using computers to play chess, go etc is that brute force methods/algorithms cannot cope with games that are deterministic but have an exponential explosion of possibilities. I place WitE entirely (almost) in the same category. The lesson has been that humans until recently can out compete using "intuition" - a term I hate because it implies it is less logical or rigorous. Great players can substitute masses of computation by seeing patterns and using less deterministic probabilities of what is a good position. Would this be a fair description of where HardLuckYetAgain is coming from?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
it really boils down, for me at least, time & effort to what is gained.


I guess Zum Angriff will have to be the best proxy for the spreadsheet nerd versus "wild ideas" type play-off

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 9/5/2017 1:28:17 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 77
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 2:06:18 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
I guess Zum Angriff will have to be the best proxy for the spreadsheet nerd versus "wild ideas" type play-off


I fear that will be somewhat unfair to the spreadsheet nerd of the world.

Remember that this is only my second campaign as the Germans (fourth overall) since I started the game against Pelton and began to learn in earnest.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 78
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/5/2017 4:11:03 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
I guess Zum Angriff will have to be the best proxy for the spreadsheet nerd versus "wild ideas" type play-off


I fear that will be somewhat unfair to the spreadsheet nerd of the world.

Remember that this is only my second campaign as the Germans (fourth overall) since I started the game against Pelton and began to learn in earnest.


War in the Pacific has WITP Tracker to assemble and structure turn by turn stats. It is an absolute critical tool for gameplay as supply for example is very detailed. I do wonder if the developers for WITE II will provide a data window for enthusiasts to create or a tool for tracking the turn by turn stats in a separate database.


_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 79
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/6/2017 2:32:49 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		I have to say that Dinglir "loves" throwing monkey wrenches into his turns before he gives them over to me :( Did I mention I absolutely "HATE" turns 12-16 as a Soviet.



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Post #: 80
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/6/2017 2:46:40 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		If I remember you all are playing random weather ... mud should be a probability about this time? Do your meteorologist have any good news?

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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 81
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/6/2017 4:22:54 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

If I remember you all are playing random weather ... mud should be a probability about this time? Do your meteorologist have any good news?


Big Red X after "Non-Random Weather". Everything has been butterflies and lollipops sunshine and for the foreseeable future. :( Did I ever say, "I hate turns 12-16" yet?

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Post #: 82
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/6/2017 12:40:47 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

If I remember you all are playing random weather ... mud should be a probability about this time? Do your meteorologist have any good news?


Big Red X after "Non-Random Weather". Everything has been butterflies and lollipops sunshine and for the foreseeable future. :( Did I ever say, "I hate turns 12-16" yet?


When all seems lost ..Refer to my signature :)

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 83
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/6/2017 3:08:17 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Loving the AAR so far guys thanks alot.

Being able to read such detailed reports, conclusions and the entire thought process to such a degree is very nice for someone trying to gain psuedo experience.

I salute you both!
May the better man win

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 84
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/6/2017 3:21:44 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Loving the AAR so far guys thanks alot.

Being able to read such detailed reports, conclusions and the entire thought process to such a degree is very nice for someone trying to gain psuedo experience.

I salute you both!
May the better man win


You are welcome! I thank Dinglir he is a pro at writing. I just bumble along in my stupor. As for winning I care not although it is nice. It is the journey in the game that is the fun while meeting great people along the way. Plus the Victory screen in my own opinion is anti dramatic for such a great game.

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Post #: 85
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/10/2017 8:00:01 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn eight.

Attachment (1)

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 86
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/11/2017 3:56:09 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 8 saw some strong German pressure. The Germans cut off the units in the swamp again and I want my units out. So I decide to open the pocket and do other localized attacks. At this point I'm just looking for getting a decent line and wins for Guard units. I'm paying the piper now in blood for excellent units in the blizzard. Guard Mountain divisions in winter makes my pee pee hard :)




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 87
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/11/2017 4:21:40 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Still putting pressure in front of Moscow (at least I'm pretending with my weak units). You will notice that most of my entrenchments are in the open area where I normally set up my defense. But since there were no PZ's in this area I went on the offensive(pretend offensive) last turn.




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Post #: 88
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/11/2017 5:13:08 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Here are my air loses for the turn. I'm getting murdered in the Air but Experience is averaging out to mid 70's for my fighter arm.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 89
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 9/11/2017 5:18:08 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		OOB for Turn 8. German Manpower is ever increasing.




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Post #: 90
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