Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and realism.

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Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and realism.

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Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and realism. - 9/12/2017 6:12:21 PM

KitsuneKojima

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/12/2017
Status: offline

Hi guys!

I want to say hello to everyone on this forum, since this is my first post here. I recently joined the C:MANO family and I am really, really green and I have a lot of questions. I figured out the best way to find an answers is to ask experienced game veterans here. So I hope you don't mind. And I just want to add, that English is not my first language, but I hope I am coherent enough for you to understand.

At first, I should say that I bought C:MANO for the realism. My background is mostly lighter, even casual games (I'm also Steel Panthers fan, but I love everything from Supreme Ruler to Wargame). At some point my interest in military warfare reached the point when I needed something more hardcore and realistic. When I was young, I was playing a game called "Seawolf" under DOS, and when I saw C:MANO, nostalgia kicked in. This and the fact that the program is known as the one of the most realistic simulations convinced me to buy it.

I have to add that whenever I play this kind of title, I play it "serious". I read everything from wiki articles to books, I try to emulate strategies and reenact historical engagements. And when It "works out" thats the best satisfaction for me.

Also, I love non-combat scenarios. I enjoy the tension between the non-friendly units. Spy missions and flying close to the borders. Fear of the unknown when you approach the unidentified target. Being on the verge of the conflict during the Cold War. Not many titles are offering that kind of experience: mostly you have basic, black or white scenarios with simple objectives. C:MANO is something different.

I hope you forgive me this long introduction. I'm getting to the point right now. Recently, I've played "Homerun" scenario. I loved the idea of preforming spy missions over the USSR, fooling the MiG-15s with my RB-47. At the beginning, I checked the historical information about this operation and then, I loaded the scenario. Thing is, I am somehow unable to achieve historical results. Here is why.

I've read that RB-47 were cruising on the higher altitudes, unable to reach for the MiG-15s. Since there is a 45 000 ft limit in the game, I had to try something else. I was trying to outspeed them, but they managed to catch me. And then, something weird happened: Two MiG-15s tailed my RB-47 but where for some reason unable to hit me with their guns. And then my RB-47 shoot both of them down using his rear tail guns. How that happened? I've read that guns on the RB-47 were basically just for the crew to feel better and MiGs were too fast to target them. And it was extremely rare for them to shoot down any plane.

I have two basic questions: First, how can I play this scenario as close to reality as possible (altitude, speed, behaviour)? And second: how RB-47 was able to shoot down two MiGs using his rear guns? Was it just a pure luck or is this weapon more powerful in-game than in reality? I am really interested in your opinions. And thank you for your time!

Post #: 1

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/12/2017 6:57:11 PM

Patmanaut

Posts: 392
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline

Hi Kitsune

I`ve been off CMANO for a while due to family an job obligations.
When I designed this scenario I complemented it with SA-1 missiles, to check their ability to shot down planes like the RB-47 at that time.
That`s why I setted it as a night scenario and make the SAC planes to avoid higher altitudes, and added another back up RB-47.
Besides that, I`ve made some research, but all the squadron configurations at the Soviet bases are basically an educated speculation, trying to get some realistic balance.
Don`t worry, I`m also got my ass kicked often by my own creation. But never happened to me to have an ace tailgunner like yours.

Please, feel free to tweak and modify it.

Enjoy!

Saludos,

(in reply to KitsuneKojima)

Post #: 2

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/12/2017 7:42:19 PM

KitsuneKojima

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/12/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Patmanaut

Hi Kitsune

I`ve been off CMANO for a while due to family an job obligations.
When I designed this scenario I complemented it with SA-1 missiles, to check their ability to shot down planes like the RB-47 at that time.
That`s why I setted it as a night scenario and make the SAC planes to avoid higher altitudes, and added another back up RB-47.
Besides that, I`ve made some research, but all the squadron configurations at the Soviet bases are basically an educated speculation, trying to get some realistic balance.
Don`t worry, I`m also got my ass kicked often by my own creation. But never happened to me to have an ace tailgunner like yours.

Please, feel free to tweak and modify it.

Enjoy!

Saludos,

That is why I love communities like that one. The ability to discuss the scenario with a creator is so insightful.

So what you are basically saying is that it was a deliberate design choice to make this scenario more skirmish-like, right? And I'm not worried about getting my ass kicked at all! I think some of RB-47 were actually shoot down during the Cold War (but I may be wrong on that one). But I'm almost sure that they took some damage from guns (and that is basically what happens in your scenario. They were shooting at me all right!). Instead I was worried about my aircraft to be unrealistically overpowered. But I have to try it again to be sure, maybe it was just pure luck.

I appreciate your work and I really like your scenario. Nonetheless, thank you for your permission to modify it! I am certainly too green to try it right now, but I would love to add more tension and "non-friendly" action. I have feeling that both sides would be very careful before shooting at each other, but that is just my vision. Again, thank you both for your reply and hard work!

(in reply to Patmanaut)

Post #: 3

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/13/2017 1:53:14 AM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

"Since there is a 45 000 ft limit in the game"

Just curious why you think there is a 45k' limit in the game and why it applies to the RB-47. I thought its ceiling was 36k to 40k, depending on load.

(in reply to KitsuneKojima)

Post #: 4

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/13/2017 2:15:24 AM

KitsuneKojima

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/12/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

"Since there is a 45 000 ft limit in the game"

Just curious why you think there is a 45k' limit in the game and why it applies to the RB-47. I thought its ceiling was 36k to 40k, depending on load.

In the Mega-FAQ there is a question "why most aircrafts have 40 000 service ceiling?", and the answer to it was: "Combat aircraft rarely go higher than 40k ft. In special cases 45k ft but not higher than that." So I've figured out that 45.000 ft is the maximum, and for some reason I was sure that the maximum altitude able to choose from the settings window was 45.000 ft. But I was, in fact wrong: I've just checked it and there is only an option for "Maximum altitude", and for example, for F-104G Starfighter it is 50 000 ft. Also, I think that I saw a complain somewhere on Steam forum about the altitude and speed limitations and It embedded into my brain for some reason. I'm glad that I was wrong, so sorry about that!

And the second part of your question: according to wikipedia, the MiG 15 service ceiling is 50.900 ft. After that I just figured out that RB-47 must fly higher, because I saw an article that stated that RB-47 were able to escape MiGs by reaching higher altitudes, unreachable for Soviet planes. But I may be wrong on that one. If max. altitude is set to 36k - 40k in the simulation there is no reason to doubt that and I am sure that developers know better than me.

< Message edited by KitsuneKojima -- 9/13/2017 2:17:52 AM >

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 5

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/13/2017 2:17:57 AM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

The RB-47, in all varieties was limited to less than 40k. I do suspect there were special versions that got higher, but no documentation on it. I didn't realize the Mig-15 could get to 50k.

edit...just thinking on what you originally said. So you could get the Migs above the RB-47s or not? I was going to try it unless you were able to do it.

< Message edited by thewood1 -- 9/13/2017 2:26:45 AM >

(in reply to KitsuneKojima)

Post #: 6

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/13/2017 2:57:25 AM

KitsuneKojima

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/12/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

The RB-47, in all varieties was limited to less than 40k. I do suspect there were special versions that got higher, but no documentation on it. I didn't realize the Mig-15 could get to 50k.

edit...just thinking on what you originally said. So you could get the Migs above the RB-47s or not? I was going to try it unless you were able to do it.

In this particular scenario that I was talking about ("Homerun"), both MiGs 15 and 17 have max possible altitude set to 45k ft, so yeah, they are able to fly higher than RB-47.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 7

RE: Introduction, "Homerun" scenario and real... - 9/13/2017 3:03:18 AM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

OK, just making sure there wasn't an issue that needed to be reported.

(in reply to KitsuneKojima)

Post #: 8