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RE: November 1944 - 9/20/2017 11:27:11 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Couldn't imagine Mr. Roper 'turnin Japanese' but it should come NATURALLY for him...


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 9/20/2017 11:28:00 PM >

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RE: November 1944 - 9/21/2017 2:12:58 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I agree with Professor Lowpe, but would add in the targeting of Refineries. No matter how much oil is in Japan, you still need fuel for ships and HI.

I think Dan really needs to play Japan just once to truly understand what needs to be preserved as '45 approaches.


Nah, you need to knock the fighters and night fighter out...everything becomes so much easier then. Japan has an excess of refineries...perhaps hit the refineries in the SRA but on Honshu you should be focused on other things first. Doesn't take long, and a coordinated heavy daylight bombing after deathstar sweeps does miracles for the Allies.

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Post #: 5222
RE: November 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:48:27 AM   
morejeffs

 

Posts: 249
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Status: offline 		Question from an AFB
Do the Japanese (usually) have enough resources? Or is that the least of the worries for the empire?

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RE: November 1944 - 9/21/2017 2:19:52 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: morejeffs

Question from an AFB
Do the Japanese (usually) have enough resources? Or is that the least of the worries for the empire?


Resources are the least of Japan's economic worries.

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Post #: 5224
RE: November 1944 - 9/21/2017 2:36:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I have resources in BUCKETS presently!

His 4EB haven't flown for a couple days. Makes me nervous...

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Post #: 5225
December 1944 - 9/21/2017 2:38:38 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		December 2, 1944

Today's diet for Japan's Fighters consisted of 2EB. Two ambushes worked over China and here in Malaya. Scratch off nearly 4 dozen of the those fast, nasty beasts.





Attachment (1)

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December 1944 - 9/21/2017 2:40:38 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		From Balikpapan, a HUGE TF of Tankers raise anchor. The American CVs are moving north so we'll try, once again, to run the gap. This one is big. It carries 155,000 Fuel and 95,000 Oil. If it can get thru then we have enough in the Home Islands to get to May 1945. INSANE!


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Post #: 5227
RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 3:04:56 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		December of 1944...

Are you making any of the Frances-S night fighters for the Navy? It is by far and away the best night fighter that is readily available for Japan. A big step up from IrvingSa

This is one plane, it might make sense to spend supply on to make.

The Peggy NF arrives next month usually. It is much faster than the Nick, has a huge big a$$ gun that is horribly inaccurate, so you might want to stick with the Nick.

Dinah NF allows you to switch 1-2 recon squadrons over to NF duty. You only need a few Dinah's to manually upgrade the squadrons.


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Post #: 5228
RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 3:27:31 PM   
Lecivius


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From: Denver
Status: offline 		I'm still trying to wrap my head around 4 dozen 2E lost

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Post #: 5229
RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 3:28:54 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

December 2, 1944

Today's diet for Japan's Fighters consisted of 2EB. Two ambushes worked over China and here in Malaya. Scratch off nearly 4 dozen of the those fast, nasty beasts.



Lovely! Vitamin B-25 is an important part of this balanced diet!

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RE: November 1944 - 9/21/2017 3:29:55 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: morejeffs
Or is that the least of the worries for the empire?


Yes.

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 3:46:42 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

December of 1944...

Are you making any of the Frances-S night fighters for the Navy? It is by far and away the best night fighter that is readily available for Japan. A big step up from IrvingSa

This is one plane, it might make sense to spend supply on to make.

The Peggy NF arrives next month usually. It is much faster than the Nick, has a huge big a$$ gun that is horribly inaccurate, so you might want to stick with the Nick.

Dinah NF allows you to switch 1-2 recon squadrons over to NF duty. You only need a few Dinah's to manually upgrade the squadrons.




Will look when I get home.


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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 3:47:38 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

December 2, 1944

Today's diet for Japan's Fighters consisted of 2EB. Two ambushes worked over China and here in Malaya. Scratch off nearly 4 dozen of the those fast, nasty beasts.



Lovely! Vitamin B-25 is an important part of this balanced diet!


I like to consume large dosages of B-17, B-24, B-25. B-26, and B-29

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 4:24:57 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

December 2, 1944

Today's diet for Japan's Fighters consisted of 2EB. Two ambushes worked over China and here in Malaya. Scratch off nearly 4 dozen of the those fast, nasty beasts.



Lovely! Vitamin B-25 is an important part of this balanced diet!


I like to consume large dosages of B-17, B-24, B-25. B-26, and B-29


Can you provide a screenshot of the day's B-25 losses from the A2A table? I need a new wallpaper for my phone.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/21/2017 4:25:26 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 4:33:02 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Any news on the KB ambush?

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 4:52:37 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I'm still trying to wrap my head around 4 dozen 2E lost


2EB are pretty fragile although some will take a few with em.


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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 5:18:10 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I'm still trying to wrap my head around 4 dozen 2E lost


2EB are pretty fragile although some will take a few with em.



True, but even so that's a huge loss

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 5:36:01 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
True, but even so that's a huge loss


Of course it is. Staggering losses. In case you're just tuning in, you'll find that Canoerebel doesn't care about unmitigated disasters like this from time to time. Just lost 50 DBs that were unescorted and chewed to pieces? Meh. Four dozen 2EBs that were unescorted and destroyed en masse? [YAWN] An ARMY liquidated on Sumatra? Whatever (shrugs).

The Allied surfeit and a lack of 'ownership' about insane losses is what is driving his war effort. IRL, he would have been relieved a long, long time ago. That's never in question in the game.

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 6:27:40 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		To be fair, though, this games 'victory conditions' doesn't model 'caring' about your pixeltruupen.

Therein lies the "three types" of gamer's I see in pretty much "every" game ever made. There are those that play the "is it realistic" game... there are those that play the game engine and try to exploit it's quirks (Oscars without pilot-oxygen sweeping at 42k feet? No prob - the engine allows it. B29's naval bombing at 100 feet? No problem the engine allows it)... and those that are in between.

In this game, everyone is either "in-between" or "gamey". I know of no one that is "100% historically faithful".


What this game (WiTp2 ???) could do is add a "war weariness" (National Discontent, whatever you want to call it) (or something) level, where the war weariness increases as you lose soldiers, and if you lose more soldiers than some mythical amount, your war weariness increases. too much war weariness and you lose.

Of course, that's considered to be modeled by VP, but it really isn't. All that matters is that you kill more of them than they kill of you... no matter how many of you get killed.

In all honesty, Canoe would have been canned as soon as Sumatra started turning sour. The Japs have the advantage in this case as it would require a revolution or coup to remove John from power.


This is not a criticism of Canoe. He’s rather honest and square when it comes to “historical’ playing. I know John complains about the 1 ship xAKL “scouts” but I don’t see an issue with it. I just consider them to be ‘spy ships with radios and who cares that they have an xAKL designation - it’s well within the realm of possibility’. Sitting a TF in a port hoping to force the enemy to react into the port across that ports 10 billion mines and the (500) 18” Cd guns? That’s gameyness.

It is what it is. I find no fault of Canoe for Sumatra. Yes in real life he’d have been canned – not for the loss of life imho, but that the invasion failed… but then again, if you want real life, play Scen 1 with PDU off and 1000 HR’s restricting what each counter can do.


< Message edited by AcePylut -- 9/21/2017 6:34:29 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:02:43 PM   
Panther Bait


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Status: offline 		The whole "he would be fired" thing is kind of ridiculous really. Should John have had to commit seppuku when he got a bunch of carriers sunk out in the Pacific for no meaningful return? It's a game folks! And the player represents thousands of Generals, Admirals, and staff people, not just one absolute leader. At the most extreme, the player is some kind of "national command authority", and Admiral King/Joint Chiefs/etc. survived Pearl Harbor, even if lower level commanders more or less didn't. Churchill survived the loss of Singapore.

Mike

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:22:02 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		No matter how well you trash Allied naval commanders in the early game, they always command the SAG...because, you know they are a 90 naval skill...ad infinitum for leaders of all flavors.

If you are racking up a 1000 vp a day bombing Honshu to dust, then sacrificing those bombers in backwaters makes a lot of sense especially if it pulls off 3 front line fighter Sentais.

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Post #: 5241
RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:32:52 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait
The whole "he would be fired" thing is kind of ridiculous really. Should John have had to commit seppuku when he got a bunch of carriers sunk out in the Pacific for no meaningful return?


Of course he should have. That's the sort of realism I'm looking for in John's games.

As to whether it's 'ridiculous' to keep in mind historical outrages and hemorrhagic losses? Particularly those that are preventable? Nope. Consider the public furor after Tarawa's Betio assault barely came off. And that was with a fraction of some of the game losses of Sumatra alone. Let alone Sulawesi. Let alone...etc. etc.

John's had some real boners in the game. So has Dan. But the surfeit of arms at Dan's disposal will patch that over. He will 'win' sometime in 1945. John won't. Thus two players that played with a number of mistakes. One will be 'forgiven' in the outcome of the game. One won't.

It's up to others to determine who 'won'. One of the factors that I consider is the Allied approach and reaction to repeated ahistoric losses. Are they sickened by their oversight and their concern for their fallen pixeltruppen? Or do they shrug their shoulders, gin up some rationale for why this was a pyrrhic victory for the enemy (at best) and dump more of the Allied forces into the grinder because...well, because 'they can'? Such divorce from any semblance of realism can, should and does impact my view of the performance of other players. How could it not?

Of course, your deliberations upon what you think constitutes good play may vary from mine. You're entitled to your opinion.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 9/21/2017 7:49:38 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:49:45 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Or do they shrug their shoulders, gin up some rationale for why this was a pyrrhic victory for the enemy (at best) and dump more of the Allied forces into the grinder because...well, because 'they can'? Such divorce from any semblance of realism can, should and does impact my view of the performance of other players. How could it not?


Denial, just not a river in Egypt.

I remember, Jocke losing a dozen or so baby carriers in an invasion of Moppo against Obvert. The troops got ashore along with the supply. According to Jocke it was an overwhelming victory.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/21/2017 7:52:44 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:54:28 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Should John have had to commit seppuku when he got a bunch of carriers sunk out in the Pacific for no meaningful return?

Why do you think he is John 3rd ? Eh ?

< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 9/21/2017 7:55:31 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:57:38 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Or do they shrug their shoulders, gin up some rationale for why this was a pyrrhic victory for the enemy (at best) and dump more of the Allied forces into the grinder because...well, because 'they can'? Such divorce from any semblance of realism can, should and does impact my view of the performance of other players. How could it not?


Denial, just not a river in Egypt.

I remember, Jocke losing a dozen or so baby carriers in an invasion of Moppo against Obvert. The troops got ashore along with the supply. According to Jocke it was an overwhelming victory.





Yes in RL heads would rolling.

On the contrary Japan is also not burdened with political bickering.
I never had to ask the Tenno.
Army and Navy work together as one.

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 7:59:45 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
Why do you think he is John 3rd ? Eh ?



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Post #: 5246
RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 8:01:20 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
Army and Navy work together as one.


Are we watching the same game, Grafin?

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 8:05:56 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
Army and Navy work together as one.


Are we watching the same game, Grafin?

Touché

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RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 8:42:56 PM   
Panther Bait


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
Army and Navy work together as one.


Are we watching the same game, Grafin?

Touché


Maybe they don't work together, but at least they don't actively work against each other.

And on the whole "good play, bad play", I don't disagree that both players made mistakes, just the whole "he" would have been fired. Which "he" Dan the President of the US, Dan the Prime Minister of England, Dan the head of the JCS, Dan the CNO, Dan the CINCPAC, Dan CINCSWPAC, etc. Maybe each of them should cut off a small body part (tip of a finger or something), each time one of their individual sub-identities fails spectacularly.

Mike

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Post #: 5249
RE: December 1944 - 9/21/2017 10:45:55 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait
Maybe each of them should cut off a small body part (tip of a finger or something), each time one of their individual sub-identities fails spectacularly.


I totally agree.

John: Start cuttin', stumpy.

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Post #: 5250
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