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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/27/2017 8:40:52 PM   
JeffroK


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quote:

John chose to shock attack even though he knew USA divisions were inbound; well, they arrived just before today's shock attack, which gutted his division.


After a couple of "coincidences" like this he has to think you are cheating

JIII, hit and run, dont hang around for Day 2

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/27/2017 9:01:22 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		It's in his nature to "kill" something. I'm sure he wanted to crow again that he'd killed more troops...instead, he's cost himself one of the last mobile assets he had.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 12:42:59 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/10/44

Death Star Raid Nagasaki: DS fighters sweep Nagasaki, clearing the air for Liberators from Ningpo. Not a stellar day but okay...and instructive.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 1:37:12 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Death Star Fighters Sweep Nagasaki: Hellcats go in early, low, and at high cost; Corsair go in late and finish the deal.




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/28/2017 1:38:36 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 1:58:16 AM   
paullus99


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Status: offline 		So, going to hit him again? Same spot or try something different?

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 1:58:38 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/10/44

Fancy Pants: No more organized IJ resistance in Indochina. In China, good progress made today at Changsha, on the Kukong Front, and on the approaches to Hangchow. Lots of supply and reinforcements landing.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:00:28 AM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99
So, going to hit him again? Same spot or try something different?


I'm going to try the same place. That in itself may be unexpected. But my main reason is that I already have "eyes" on the mines at Nagasaki. Usually, that helps ships avoid them. A test bombardment TF to hit Nagasaki tonight. If that goes well, bigger TFs will go in tomorrow night.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:13:53 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I forget, can you create landing craft at the American base just to the east of Changsha? If you can create them and then spring a naval river attack it might be fun.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:14:07 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		What range for the bombardment?

I was going to talk about the air war, but feel you should probably not bombard and simply clear the trash ships instead of bombarding.

Or better yet, put together a convoy of PT boats with a ship with fuel, and make your way across to Nagasaki, ditch the fuel ship, and send the PT boats in to fight the trash. If you want to see carnage among Japanese MTBs....assuming those are MTBs.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:15:07 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
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Status: offline 		I'm pretty unfamiliar with the late air war and Japanese staying power. By default, I have to assume that John has a limitless supply of good pilots and good aircraft. That's not true, of course, but I simply don't have the experience to gauge whether the Japanese air force might be suffering in one respect or another. If I push my own air force too hard, thinking I have John on the ropes, I may take excessive losses. B-24Js and B-29s are particularly worrisome - limited numbers, limited pools. So I want to push but not too hard.

Some of you have far more experience than I do. You may get frustrated by my ham-fistedness in handling things. But I think it's better that I try to handle this myself, trying to learn, rather than have the experienced Peanut Gallery try to ghost write this book.

I remain fairly optimistic about the strategic war, especially with KB (or half of it, anyway) so far away.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:15:58 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I forget, can you create landing craft at the American base just to the east of Changsha? If you can create them and then spring a naval river attack it might be fun.


He needs 10K supply...but it would work.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:19:37 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		P.S. I wasn't aware of Lowpe's post when I wrote my last one.

And I don't want to discourage folks from chiming in, teaching and helping. It's just that with respect to the air war, there's so much to learn that it would be easy for me to basically let the Peanut Gallery do the driving.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:22:06 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm pretty unfamiliar with the late air war and Japanese staying power. By default, I have to assume that John has a limitless supply of good pilots and good aircraft. That's not true, of course, but I simply don't have the experience to gauge whether the Japanese air force might be suffering in one respect or another. If I push my own air force too hard, thinking I have John on the ropes, I may take excessive losses. B-24Js and B-29s are particularly worrisome - limited numbers, limited pools. So I want to push but not too hard.

Some of you have far more experience than I do. You may get frustrated by my ham-fistedness in handling things. But I think it's better that I try to handle this myself, trying to learn, rather than have the experienced Peanut Gallery try to ghost write this book.

I remain fairly optimistic about the strategic war, especially with KB (or half of it, anyway) so far away.


I'm sure that many players do pilot training much better than I do. Still, I thought I had plenty of most kinds of pilots but the late war expansion of the Allies' air forces - especially USA and USN - led to a significant decrease in the average skills of front line pilots because so many new-ish pilots had to be called up.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 9/28/2017 2:24:20 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:24:27 AM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Here is my air bit...I don't think it violates CR's desires...

Very interesting tactic of sending the Hellcats (and obsolete ones at that) down low. Despite the 20 mph faster cruise speed, the low altitude allowed the Hellcats to arrive over target first (primarily).

Did it in fact pull down the CAP, allowing the Corsairs a stronger performance. Certainly it fatigued the CAP, but it also raised the CAP's pilot skills and experience - or did it?

Which brings me to my question...are pilot changes in skill and experience allocated at the end of the day, or in real time during the dogfights?

I have no idea.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/28/2017 2:28:29 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:26:18 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is my air bit...I don't think it violates CR's desires...

Very interesting tactic of sending the Hellcats (and obsolete ones at that) down low. Despite the 20 mph faster cruise speed, the low altitude allowed the Hellcats to arrive over target first (primarily).

Did it in fact pull down the Allied CAP, allowing the Corsairs a stronger performance. Certainly it fatigued the CAP, but it also raised the CAP's pilot skills and experience - or did it?

Which brings me to my question...are pilot changes in skill and experience allocated at the end of the day, or in real time during the dogfights?

I have no idea.




I don't know either, but it seems it would be more complicated to add them during so I presume it's an end-of-turn chore.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 2:50:13 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		It will come as no surprise that I don't know either. Yes, it definitely fatigued the enemy's pilots, allowing the later sweeps to score better.

But I'm not persuaded that using Hellcats at low altitude is a good idea. So tomorrow's sweeps are 90% Corsairs and everything set at 30k.

Jeff, your thoughts prompted me to re-think the bombardment mission. Instead, the CLAA/DD TF will go in as a combat TF to test the waters.

Also at your suggestion, PT boats are coming up from Ningpo, so they'll be available the day after tomorrow.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 3:40:26 AM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:


Lowpe

Which brings me to my question...are pilot changes in skill and experience allocated at the end of the day, or in real time during the dogfights?



quote:


witpqs

I don't know either, but it seems it would be more complicated to add them during so I presume it's an end-of-turn chore.



End of the day (end-of-turn)... as it sinks in and you have time to think about it.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 1:41:37 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is my air bit...I don't think it violates CR's desires...

Very interesting tactic of sending the Hellcats (and obsolete ones at that) down low. Despite the 20 mph faster cruise speed, the low altitude allowed the Hellcats to arrive over target first (primarily).




Orrrrrrrrrrr.....

It was just luck. I'm going with order of arrival over an enemy base is far more luck than anything else.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 5:45:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/11/44

Raid On Nagasaki: "FURBALL Baby!" That was John's email message, which is his standard telltale of a major air battle that he considers favorable to the Japanese side. So I was duly warned when I loaded the combat replay.

On viewing the turn, I gather his pleasure comes from the number of 4EB downed - 33 Liberators and PBY Liberators. That's sobering for me and requires thought and an adjustment of doctrine. But the underlying numbers are very promising - Corsairs just ate alive John's fighters.

In addition to this developing battle over Nagasaki, I'm monitoring events elsewhere to see if there's any bleed over impact. IE, will John have to (or want to; which is a much different thing) pull fighters out of China or Malaya to respond to the crisis? Thus far - and this is very early - I'm seeing fewer fighters in China....and those IJ fighters are performing notably more poorly.

We're just at the beginning of what seems to be a new, chaotic, frenzied stage of the game. I feel like I've stepped from an old wooden roller coaster onto a modern metal monster coaster.




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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 6:03:29 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		Wow, those are pretty one sided Japanese losses for the sweeps. Even given the stat superiority of Corsairs. I guess John's pilots are not that good in the end

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Post #: 12350
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 7:00:38 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/11/44

Fancy Pants: The Chinese take Changsha. Japanese losses were not dramatic and that stack retires to the east. But the situation in China is very promising. And Indochina is all but wrapped up now.

Into the medium term, the Allies will focus on Shanghai and Hangchow while looking for ways that might lead to an airfield closer to Japan.

The Chinese will try to handle Hong Kong and Canton. That may be like the Germans hoping the Italians could handle Africa or Romania. But we'll see.

And the Allies are moving down the Malay Peninsula. The question is whether there will be an Anzio-like invasion. There probably will be if the present army encounters stiff resistance.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 8:21:19 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm pretty unfamiliar with the late air war and Japanese staying power. By default, I have to assume that John has a limitless supply of good pilots and good aircraft. That's not true, of course, but I simply don't have the experience to gauge whether the Japanese air force might be suffering in one respect or another. If I push my own air force too hard, thinking I have John on the ropes, I may take excessive losses. B-24Js and B-29s are particularly worrisome - limited numbers, limited pools. So I want to push but not too hard.

Some of you have far more experience than I do. You may get frustrated by my ham-fistedness in handling things. But I think it's better that I try to handle this myself, trying to learn, rather than have the experienced Peanut Gallery try to ghost write this book.

I remain fairly optimistic about the strategic war, especially with KB (or half of it, anyway) so far away.


I'm sure that many players do pilot training much better than I do. Still, I thought I had plenty of most kinds of pilots but the late war expansion of the Allies' air forces - especially USA and USN - led to a significant decrease in the average skills of front line pilots because so many new-ish pilots had to be called up.


Yeah, when all of the American bombers expanded on 1/45 I found I did not have near enough trained pilots. You will need hundreds. I had to pull some units out of the line and turn them to training. But I found that even moderately trained bombers do well enough.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/28/2017 9:34:22 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Factors in naval bombardment include d/l, naval skills, aggressiveness, crew experience and .... luck. The latter is most important! Give Baltimore another chance sometime.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 1:26:48 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/11/44

Sweeping Escort: I had something happen today that I've never seen before (but you guys probably have). The biggest group of sweeping fighters that went in (350+) became embroiled in a long dogfight with enemy CAP. While that dogfight was going on, USN Avengers arrived. They were flying a strategic bombing mission in the hex. So the sweeping fighters ended up helping out the Avengers, which took considerably few casualties than they would have otherwise.

Is that common?




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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/29/2017 1:32:23 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 1:39:33 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		You guys are cranking thru the turns.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 2:09:26 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		We did two a day for two or three days. We've resumed one a day. That's been our normal pace for many months. In '42, '42, '43, John cranked out one to five turns a day, probably averaging over two per day. There were serious real-life reasons he had to cut back but he still succumbs to the urge to push turns when his carriers are raiding. :)

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 2:16:01 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		You have to like the coordination level of those Corsair sweeps.

Where do you have your -5 Hellcats? Are they on DS CAP?

Cheers,
CC

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 2:17:48 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		As I plan the next turn, the real question is: What next for Death Star and it's fighters? Another raid on Nagasaki? A switch to another base? What about the Liberators? What about the Superforts? What about Ningpo's fighters (the base is fully supplied, so P-51s and P-38s [yes, P-38s] can sweep.

The Death Star Corsairs are in excellent condition, so I'm definitely going to do more sweeps. I'm choosing between two plans:

1. LBA and Corsairs sweep Nagasaki again. B-24Js hit from Ningpo. Avengers sortie from DS. B-29s possibly to coordinate or possibly to rest again....or possibly to strike another target, probably a nighttime raid.

2. Corsairs sweep Kobe, which is out of range of anything at Ningpo. B-29s hit Kobe in daylight hours, focusing on Judy, Jill and Rex factories (recon shows modest fighter numbers at Kobe and each adjacent base).



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Post #: 12358
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 2:19:16 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Commander Cody, yes, the -5 Hellcats are on CAP duty. I'm evaluating that too and beginning to upgrade some of the LBA -3 squadrons, that will later move to carriers.

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Post #: 12359
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 9/29/2017 2:29:53 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I think I'm going to do another raid on Nagasaki. Partly this is because I want to see how John handles things. I think there's a chance he'll stand down his CAP, under the impression that my 4EB took a whacking. The raid will be:

1. Death Star Corsairs sweep.
2. Ningpo P-51s and P-47s sweep.
3. Ningpo P-38s escort duty (unorthodox, but if the Corsairs go in early it might help).
4. Death Star Avengers strategic mission vs. Heavy Industry.
5. B-24Js strategic mission vs. Light Industry.

I haven't decided on the B-29s yet, but I think I'll have about 30 fly a nighttime mission against Kobe at low altitude.


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