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Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defense tactics?

 
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Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defense t... - 9/30/2017 11:52:41 PM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		What are the best tactics to defend Japanese bases from Allied HB attacks? It seems the heavies always get through and score hits on ships at ridiculous rates. Thanks in advance! I have to believe you guys have faced this issue over and over again.
Post #: 1
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 12:07:43 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		What the JFB and AFB see are very different results.
Allied attacks against TF at sea seem ineffective, against a stationary TF tied up at port gets a lot more hits.

As a JFB, avoid having your TF in port or disbanded within 4E range, very hard but its like skirting around Netties and their range.

Set up your base defences properly, 25mm AA is a waste, 75mm very limited in range. Utilize your 88/105mm AA Batteries wisely. Ensure your Base Force has RADAR.

The AFB has more options, 50cal/20mm/40mm for low fliers, 3"/75mm soon make way for 3.7"/90mm and the Allies have more RADAR sets than the JFB has hot meals. (Speaking of which, keep your bases supplied) You also have some excellent bomber killers, the 50cal and 20mm weapons chew through japanese aircraft.

Its up to you to decide which Fighters you use, different years have different aircraft available, escorted or unescorted bombers need different aircraft.

IMVHO, this force the JFB to choose 2-3 locations for their major fleet bases, concentrating their effective weapons.

Of Course, this covers stock scenarios, FB wet dream scenarios change everything.

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(in reply to Gewehr1943)
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RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 12:29:59 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		I don't think you can stop it, but you can make it costly which will slow it down.

assuming the common 10k alt HR,
any fighter with centerline cannon that you have available
layered figher cap with your heaviest hitters a few k above the bomber groups
AA
multiple radar
(if night bombing)
search lights

If you have a network of bases to rotate fighter units into action, especially along a rail road, it will help you attinuate the bomber threat.

General Notes:
If this is an isolated target (think Truk), you can make the Allies pay if they launch bombers with minimal fighter cover, but once they build up and crowd in, Truk is toast regardless if they bomb it to train their crews or just by pass it.
If this is a larger target (think Mindanao) then you should have built up 3 bases or so and rotate to and launch cap from.

Even with that, if the Allies decide that x is the path of advance, then eventually the heavies will win. You need to kill enough to slow him down.

if this is vs 4E under 10k
I haven't had to face this in a PBEM yet but from my lurking:
AA and radar are most important, the earlier the detection and at lower alt you don't have any time to spare.

*spelling


< Message edited by DanSez -- 10/1/2017 12:34:13 AM >

(in reply to Gewehr1943)
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RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 12:52:50 AM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline
forgot to add:
night bombing, until you get real night fighters
and you will never get enough if the Allies have a determined night bombing campaign
but, until then
don't waste good day fighters in the night figher role
use float planes, you have a bunch of Pete's just sitting around either rusting or used in training

move that training to the night bomber targets and fly them at 10-20% cap, lower alt

Think of it as Moth Defense.
It won't shoot anything down but it will mess with their aim.
Do Use the Dinah fighter in a night figher role, again lower alt and smaller cap to intercept multiple bomber packages.

You will need search lights.
Radar will help, but You Will Need Search Lights.
(do I need to type that again?)


And finally, experiment with model and layer and take notes to compare with later test.
Remember that morale, supply and leadership are important factors.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 4
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 2:54:17 AM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		I'm still on the attack so I need to protect major forward bases from the HB threat as much as possible. Only daylight attacks beyond the ranges of his escort fighters are occurring now. In other words, I am using these bases to support attacking forces, army and naval ground forces, subs and even CV's and surface TF's. The attacks are not heavy at this point but they will only get bigger in the coming months. At some point it won't be possible anymore to operate this far forward but for now, until I lose the initiative, I want to make it as painful as I can against un-escorted heavies. Losing pilots, especially naval pilots, I have got to avoid like the plague. 75mm T88s do a pretty good job in battalion strength under 10,000 ft, where most all of these attacks are coming in. I have base forces and radar, I just need more firepower, like the 88mm Regiments located in Japan and Manchuria which I plan on moving in asap. I won't move anything heavier out of Japan. These weapons, the 75mm and the 88mm should also help in an anti-tank role but I don't know if the game incorporates that ability or not, it should. Does anybody know for sure? Thanks again everybody. If there's anything else to do please let me know.

< Message edited by Gewehr1943 -- 10/1/2017 3:00:06 AM >

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 5
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 9:26:31 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gewehr1943

What are the best tactics to defend Japanese bases from Allied HB attacks? It seems the heavies always get through and score hits on ships at ridiculous rates. Thanks in advance! I have to believe you guys have faced this issue over and over again.


LRC at 1 or 2

(in reply to Gewehr1943)
Post #: 6
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 9:29:26 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		Assume that 4E strike will always get through no matter your defences. So it follows that:
1) Your isolated airbases will be bombed and closed, so plan accordingly
2) Your important ships should always dock/disband/upgrade out of 4E range
3) You main weapon against 4E is attrition. Pack AA and cannon-armed heavy fighters to damage the beasts and disturb their aim.

Just as heads up - 100 4E on naval attack are capable of killing the entire KB if they fly together, that's why there are house rules on their usage

(in reply to Gewehr1943)
Post #: 7
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 9:35:38 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Assume that 4E strike will always get through no matter your defences. So it follows that:
1) Your isolated airbases will be bombed and closed, so plan accordingly
2) Your important ships should always dock/disband/upgrade out of 4E range
3) You main weapon against 4E is attrition. Pack AA and cannon-armed heavy fighters to damage the beasts and disturb their aim.

Just as heads up - 100 4E on naval attack are capable of killing the entire KB if they fly together, that's why there are house rules on their usage


buff...perfect

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 8
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 12:25:54 PM   
inqistor


Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
Status: offline 		Your only option is to not allow Allies using airbases in range. If they are on the coast, send some BBs with quick visit. Number of 4Es replacement is quite limited, so another option is attrition. All out air war will eventually stop the attacks.

It is better to do it early, because with time, Japan numerical superiority only dwindle.

(in reply to Gewehr1943)
Post #: 9
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 1:25:11 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Your only option is to not allow Allies using airbases in range. If they are on the coast, send some BBs with quick visit. Number of 4Es replacement is quite limited, so another option is attrition. All out air war will eventually stop the attacks.

It is better to do it early, because with time, Japan numerical superiority only dwindle.



(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 10
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 6:30:42 PM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		That's what I'm thinking. They only get a couple of B-24's a turn so any that I can shoot down will slow down the arrival of the day when 100 of them show up at one time.

(in reply to inqistor)
Post #: 11
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 6:36:06 PM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		NO, I think I got it :) Those days are still years away in my game but Good advice thanks.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 12
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 7:58:40 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

You will need search lights.
Radar will help, but You Will Need Search Lights.


Its been said here that search lights serve no function in the game, other than a load on shipping.

quote:

I just need more firepower, like the 88mm Regiments located in Japan and Manchuria which I plan on moving in asap. I won't move anything heavier out of Japan.


Why not, they're not doing you any good there, you can always move them back later.

Nick's work well against unescorted HB's.



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(in reply to Gewehr1943)
Post #: 13
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/1/2017 8:12:08 PM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		I'm not that worried about high altitude attacks, just 8,000 - 10,000 feet. I'll have to look at their stats and make sure. I do want to know is if the 75mm and 88mm work as the DP guns that were made to be. Any additional AT capability will help later on.

< Message edited by Gewehr1943 -- 10/1/2017 8:14:24 PM >

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 14
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/2/2017 2:44:53 PM   
DanSez


Posts: 1023
Joined: 2/5/2012
Status: offline 		My comments about search lights were concerning night bombing.

I think I get better AA fire if I have units with search lights.


(in reply to Gewehr1943)
Post #: 15
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/2/2017 3:34:41 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Pre - radar, AA at night might not fire without searchlights present. They have an effect in tracker devices screen.

So, to me searchlights need to go where night bombing is likely as it increases the DL enough for the AA to actually fire. As the game progresses I suspect the impact of searchlights is minimal, but it another soak device.

(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 16
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/3/2017 12:42:19 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		(Just can't resist) You could always just try playing the Allied Player

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Post #: 17
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/3/2017 7:04:03 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		I would put it in short:

1) Detection devices (radar, searchlights, listening posts, etc.)
2A) Cannon armed, armored, higher durability aircraft (Nick, Randy, Jack, George, Frank, Ki-100, etc.)
2B) High A2A skill, high exp pilots
3) AA guns (88mm, 105mm, 127mm DP)
4) Baloon barrage (require AF+Port size 10+ IIRC up to 6000 ft.)

Even then you would loose a lot of planes shot down by defensive fire, a lot of the planes being damaged. Do not count just kills, but also ops losses - every bomber destroyed counts! Being it long range, weather, battle damage, or high fatigue of the frame by constant use by the enemy adds up! And many damaged planes even if landed safely will need a lot of repair time due to their high durability - sometimes a 15 days for B-24 or so!

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RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/3/2017 7:49:38 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Just put some low durability/low service rating fighters in your rear bases. They can be obsolete ones like Nates or Claudes, or Oscars if you can spare some. Nates are good, because they are hard to hit by bombers' defensive fire due to Nates high manueverability. The idea is to disrupt bombers/damage bombers and get your damaged fighters repaired overnight. Slowly, the bomber numbers will dwindle while your fighter numbers should be steady.

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 19
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/3/2017 7:53:26 PM   
SheperdN7


Posts: 296
Joined: 2/23/2016
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Status: offline 		Lots of heavy flak and fighters armed with cannons, even with tons of flak and a couple sentai of Nicks, you still won't see huge losses for the Allies but at the very least you'll make the bomber crews pay dearly with long repair times and OP losses, not to mention it'll disrupt their aim. Don't keep flak on the home islands, if you need to keep something there to defend it, you're doomed anyways...


Protect bases that will put 4E bombers in range of targets. The best defence in my opinion is base denial. While I do realize in mid '44 this task will be pretty much impossible, you can still have a chance to deny these bases like the Mariana's, etc. well into '43

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RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/6/2017 12:27:52 AM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline 		Any allied player who flies his bombers, especially at extended range, against heavily defended targets isn't a good player (without fighter escort).

The two most important assets to the allied player is his CV fleet and his USAAF/RAF bombers. Flying them at extended range and/or against heavily defended targets with NO fighter sweeps and fighter escort is the same as losing the game.

If the Allied player properly uses his high-altitude sweeps and flies the bombers after a few days of sweeps can't be stopped.


(in reply to SheperdN7)
Post #: 21
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/6/2017 2:19:16 AM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		I would love to tell you the situation the Allies are in, where and when, but I can't do that at this point. Thanks for your input though.

(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 22
RE: Heavy bomber defence - what are the best base defen... - 10/6/2017 2:27:19 AM   
Gewehr1943

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 1/16/2017
Status: offline 		Thanks, but that's really not an option at this base.

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Post #: 23
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