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RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/10/2017 1:24:54 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5 Team

the dude357 joined us in turn 5 as our new South commander

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Congratulation new commander !!! i've just finishing stealing all support units, supplies and spare from south to put them safe in the army group center, then i release the army group south for you.

Army group south remind me of Napoleon, which took command of the italian French army in 1796, which was the worst and less supplied french army either at the time and took it to greatness.


What would a Napoleon do if he joined us now? Kharkov in three turns? Rostov in six turns? Go to Italy? Clearly impossible for an ordinary WitE player - but Stelteck sets a high bar for team mates!

[This was originally post 98]

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/16/2018 5:32:31 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 91
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/12/2017 4:50:49 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5 23-July-1941 Axis North




The Pskow line is history and the motorised units do not wait for infantry in the North - they just keep going! Units reach Lake Ilmen and threaten the outskirts of Novgorod. Soviet preparations for a defence of the Luga look incomplete. In the Baltics no Soviet units are being encountered. Apart from a lot of reconnaisance there is no soviet air activity, manual or automatic, either in the Soviet phase the previous turn or during the Axis phase this turn.

Belatedly the Soviets are preparing lines on the Janisjarvi in Karelia.


[This was originally post 71]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/15/2018 7:30:49 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 92
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/19/2017 11:10:17 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Special Delivery for Stelteck

Brought to your front line HQ door by the men of FBD3 who are reporting for duty to AGC after their secondment to OKH as their part of the whole team rail network is complete.



The note with the consignment reads

quote:


Sender: Olga - yes it's me! Your favourite Berlin cabaret artiste!
Message: Waiting for you at Moulin Rouge...

[above was originally post 92]

And so the AAR continues ...

Turn 5 23-July-1941 Axis Centre




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/15/2018 7:14:09 PM >

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Post #: 93
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/19/2017 7:44:31 PM   
thedude357


Posts: 87
Joined: 10/13/2012
From: California
Status: offline 		Army Group South Turn 5:

The pocket was cleared near Vinnitsa to make a smoother infantry march across Ukraine. Soviets appear to be in total withdrawal to the Dnepr for a defensive position. Air recon this turn showed a vast practically empty space stretching all the way to the Dnepr.

I saw an opportunity to hit Kiev while it was still being fortified and the Soviet commander only left 2 infantry divisions defending it. I had to use panzers but they got the job done. This is probably a turn or two earlier then the Soviets expected. Every victory point counts.

The Soviets are building a defensive position at Cherkassy with its favorable terrain. I am thinking this was in anticipation of a Kiev encirclement, but with Kiev captured I am unsure if they will continue to defend this area and may withdraw east of the Dnepr. If they stay they are trying to delay an advance to Poltova - Kharkov.

Further south a "recon in force" was conducted and was able to raid Kirovograd and took all of its industry. Pressure on Krivoi Rog next turn, and Dnepropetrovsk & Zaporozhye a turn or two later.

Romanians and 11th Army continue on the march eastwards, Odessa looks undefended and further east a small Soviet presence near Nikolaev that will probably end up withdrawing.

AGS Northern Boundary



AGS Southern Boundary


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< Message edited by thedude357 -- 9/20/2017 4:08:40 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 94
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/20/2017 11:23:29 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5 23-July-1941 Air War

By request air losses are being presented as since last turn rather than during Axis turn. Soviet losses of key air types such as modern fighters/fighter bombers, very long range bombers, and long range recon continue to outstrip their production.



This turn sees the start of our strategic bombing campaign. Using our tactics to economise on logisitics for our air forces it now does make sense to bomb cities.




Although the damage is very slight, these are expanding factories which have a long way to go before reaching their full capacity. The damage at the Il-2 factories at Voronezh for instance would mean, even if production was never halted by the damage, 90 Il-2s will now never be built due to delayed expansion. The bombing of the T-34 factory at Kharkhov will similarly mean a number of tanks will never be built due to delayed expansion - although the effect may be delayed by the Soviet plans for its evacuation.



An unusually high damage at Ivanovo. But for the most part it will take many turns of consistent effort before the campaign bears fruit.



Taganrog also gets an unusually high damage level for the first turn of bombing

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 6:47:11 PM >

(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 95
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/20/2017 12:36:25 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		The Soviets could stop this cold if they wanted too pretty easy, question is will they do it.

_____________________________


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Post #: 96
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/20/2017 2:47:38 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
The Soviets could stop this cold if they wanted too pretty easy, question is will they do it.

Follow this thread and see!

Turn 5 Allocations

For information only - team allocations and submissions for turn 5 attached.

Also click the following links for

https://i.imgur.com/eNuZcCe.png https://i.imgur.com/cCaSpaH.png command boundaries
https://i.imgur.com/YIRYsaT.png ground losses

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 7:33:48 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 97
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/20/2017 2:59:03 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 6 24-July-1941 Axis North

Unfortunately the surrounded Soviets decided not to calmly wait for their extermination - so normal service had to be delayed for a turn. Team orders are for the North-Centre boundary to turn sharply NorthEastwards (blue line) - we are making Leningrad a priority.




Turn 6 30-July-1941 Axis North

Our troops start to arrive on the Luga line in force.



The Janisjarvi line holds



[This was originally post 101]
[The original post 98 has been moved to post 91]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 9:29:25 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 98
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/20/2017 4:40:05 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 6 30-July-1941 Axis Centre

Centre goes first this turn. The frontage of Centre is expanding to the north and south, units and air support are being prioritised to the North, and two AGC panzer corps are still on loan to neighbouring commands. But the centre offensive keeps going forward.




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 9:32:16 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 99
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/20/2017 6:08:25 PM   
thedude357


Posts: 87
Joined: 10/13/2012
From: California
Status: offline 		Turn 6 Army Group South

6th Army catches up to Kiev and lines up right across the Dnepr from Soviet forces. The Soviet defensive position along the Dnepr is formidable but will it hold?

Soviet forces create a hasty defensive position behind a minor river stretching north of Nikolaev. This is totally breached by 1st PzG and Krivoi Rog is sacked with all its industry. This breach also completely outflanks and threatens the entire Soviet line there with a single envelopment. The hole is blown so wide that 1st PzG and its attached panzer corps from AGC are able to encircle several Soviet divisions and cross the Dnepr, outflanking the entire defensive position there as well. This puts Soviet forces along the Dnepr in a perilous position and makes the panzers within striking distance of Poltava and Kharkov.

AGS Northern Boundary


AGS Southern Boundary

A long march east for the infantry. 17th, 11th, and Romanian armies continue eastward.







< Message edited by thedude357 -- 9/20/2017 6:23:49 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 100
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/21/2017 9:41:09 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 6 30-July-1941 Air War

Our air campaign continues with Soviet losses in key airframe types continuing to outstrip their production.



It is the second week of our concerted strategic bombing campaign and we have expanded our target list.

Moscow has fighter cover and remains just outside of our escorted bomber range.




In North Russia secondary industrial sites continue to show their vulnerability to bombing. The vehicle factory in Yaroslavl is bigger than the vehicle factory in Murom. But in spite of using more bombers which are less fatigued, indeed the very same airgroups subsequently were bombing Murom, and in spite of encountering less flak, bombing results in Yaroslavl continue to disappoint.



In central Russia last week we stopped expansion of the Il-2 factories meaning that even if they never stopped producing they would still produce 90 fewer Il-2s than they would have done. This week stopped expansion will mean a further 240 Il-2s never get produced on top of the 90. But in addition damage levels are high enough, and will persist over enough turns, that the probability the Il-2 factories will stop production sometime is significant. Unfortunately we left Kharkhov till last meaning a complete miss - allowing the Soviets to ratchet up their tank building capacity this turn. And finally in hindsight going for a resource production target was a mistake. After targetting key aircraft and vehicle factories, any remaining industrial bombing effort should go into ONLY resource production or ONLY heavy industry or ONLY arms industry. There is little analysis and no AARs that I know of to give guidance on startegic bombing so we are feeling our way with this one.


[This was originally post 102]
[The original post 101 has been moved to post 98]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 9:40:08 PM >

(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 101
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/21/2017 3:13:52 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 6 Allocations

For information only - team allocations and submissions for turn 6 attached.

Also click the following links for

https://i.imgur.com/Pn9vs9B.png https://i.imgur.com/OFivVtL.png command boundaries

What do we call the next stage Operation?

We have our next phase worked out and we know what each of us will be doing. Everything is fixed except one important detail - the name! What will be the final decision? The nominations are

i) Operation Tottenritt
ii) Plan Stelteck
iii) Operation Hangman
iv) Operation Noose
v) Operation sugar free

What is your decision?
[The above was originally post 91]

Points: A Retrospective - Turns 1 To 6

We have been keeping a track of how we spend points - here are the results by purpose and command




[This was originally post 103]
[The original post 102 has been moved to post 101]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 7:48:51 PM >

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Post #: 102
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/21/2017 6:01:17 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 7 06-August-1941 North




Our commander in the North ponders their options. Two possibilities are presented - use Centre's help to "right hook" or isolate Leningrad with port bombing. Our North Commander decides on a third - direct assault. Undoubtedly the right decision. But it may have meant some duplication of effort as three commanders went different ways which would not have happened in a solo game.



After the breakthrough at the Luga our motorised cut through to the coast, while another pincer reaches Pushkin. Indeed there were enough movement points to have tried a direct assault on Leningrad which was then defended just by a fort. And of course this left a large number of units, experienced, trained and well equipped presumably, isolated to the east of Narva.



quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
I had look at my T6 turn and I really screwed up. At least 5 units could have been placed in a much better way to make pocketing much more difficult. And finally I left the fact that the infantry can support the panzers completely out of consideration. I still expect a court martial for this, my U2 will help me to escape in this case


I am not entirely sure this was such a disaster for the Soviet team. I consider it more par for the course. Not wanting to lose a single unit or get into a single pocket is a great attitude for a Soviet player to have - but a pretty miserable one for the Soviet player themselves in 1941. Ultimately the one way to never lose anything in 1941 is to evacuate the entire Red Army to the Urals. But if you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs.

However we suspect the Soviet team may have over reacted to these events. Given a balanced Soviet defence of all fronts, Axis should always be able to win in one by concentrating there. But the team got the palpable sense that other fronts were denuded of units in response to this turn of events leading to other effects elsewhere. In this sense this turn came to be seen as a turning point in our Barbarossa campaign.
[This was originally post 106]
[The original post 103 has been moved to post 102]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 9:46:32 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 103
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/22/2017 3:43:54 PM   
thedude357


Posts: 87
Joined: 10/13/2012
From: California
Status: offline 		Turn 7 Army Group South

6th Army Continues to spread out Northeast and crosses the Dnepr to linkup with Army Group Center. After being outflanked the defensive position along the Dneper has completely high-tailed it East as fast as they could go.

11th and 17th Armies march further eastward to keep in contact with the Soviets. Both Soviet defensive positions from the previous turn are in an all out sprint East. The Romanians captured Odessa last turn and are now marching as fast as they can go.

1 corps of 1st PzG performs a HQBU to see what kind of damage can be done the next turn. There are some pretty obvious gaps in the Soviet line and a very hasty retreat and we shall see what opportunities present themself. Another panzer corps probes the Soviet defense ahead at Dnepropetrovsk, while the other remains in reserve.

AGS Northern Sector



AGS Middle Sector



AGS Southern Sector


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 104
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/23/2017 9:10:29 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 7 06-August-1941 Centre

The frontage of centre reaches even wider. Not only does centre also almost connect East of the Pripyat marshes with forces to the south, some of its infantry are actually in those forces south of the marshes. And team orders are for centre to take over as much of the north command front as it can. This plus being understrength in motorised units has meant heroic efforts to keep the momentum up in the Centre. In spite of this some dramatic turns in the centre this turn. A surge to the north leaves units pocketed and the Soviet front completely outflanked. Our centre commander offers the prospect to the North of using centre's remaining motorised units as a northern "right hook." South of Smolensk infantry start another pocket to be. But on the upper Dnerpr route to Moscow it does look like there are some well dug in multiple lines of defence.




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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 9:48:26 PM >

(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 105
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/23/2017 4:46:02 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 7 06-August-1941 Air War



The Soviets started their own aggressive air campaign last turn. This is the first turn where we have to consider how sustainable is the air war on our fighter arm. Less of an advance in our air war this turn as our land forces make far larger calls on their resources - but Soviet losses in key airframe types continue to outstrip their production.



But there is a noticeable decline in Soviet interceptions. In the North our commander gives the Luftwaffes fighter pilots some well earned R&R for their go leaving all the work to the bomber boys.




This is the first turn where we have large scale deployment of the Fi156C recon aircraft - very short range but with a very light footprint. Even when it has flown 100% of its mileage it has only consumed 1 ton of fuel. Effectively we have costless recon ability near our front - and we use it liberally.



The longterm downside is inevitably the Soviet airforce is shooting down more of our aircraft gaining experience and victories. But in the short run it is probably adding to their fatigue. Experience of using the Fi156C shows that about as many Soviet interceptors are being lost chasing the Fi16C as they succeed in destroying of it.



If the Fi156C were classified as a dogfighter it's kill rate would be evens with the Soviets - not bad for such a cheap aircraft with no guns. Is the Fi156C an underappreciated member of the Luftwaffe family deserving of more love and attention? Could this be Germany's U2-VS? We need a Dinglir to adjudicate.

It is the third week of our concerted strategic bombing campaign and we have expanded our target list again. But with more ground unit bombing/support this turn less bombing capacity is being stretched over them.



Moscow is now in our escorted bomber range - and we compound Soviet air difficulties in the air by bombing their aircraft factories on the ground. Perhaps a more patient play would be just to wait for their evacuation and see them damaged that way. The MiG-3 factories upgrade to Il-2 factories at the end of the year, but start from scratch for their expansion - so when and how to evacuate them from Moscow means some tough choices. But as the number of airframes is starting to be a key Soviet choke point in the short term, any contribution this might make could be disproportionately damaging to the Soviet air force.



Now that our ground forces have crossed the Dnepr the Kharkhov tank factory has been evacuated. But a suitable replacement has come into range - the Stalingrad tank factory. And on our Centre commanders advice we have added the Rocket Launcher factories to our target list. Our targets in central Russia have priority target equipment that are at the start of their factory expansion - and so very vulnerable to even small amounts of damage.
[This was originally post 107]
[The original post 106 has been moved to post 103]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 9:52:53 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 106
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/23/2017 7:23:50 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 7 Allocations

For information only - team allocations and submissions for turn 7 attached.

Also click the following links for

https://i.imgur.com/EDuHNSR.png, https://i.imgur.com/AU7ocos.png command boundaries

[The original post 107 has been moved to post 106]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 8:08:40 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 107
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/24/2017 8:46:30 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 8 13-August-1941 North



During the Soviet action phase last turn a rare example of a ground interdiction at sea. The Finnish air force can conduct air missions a row or two below their no move line. But the AI regularly goes beyond this and uses the Finnish airforce well to the south of Leningrad.




After the big events of last turn this was more a consolidation for the North. Reduction of the pocket East of Narva began, plus some more units were left isolated on the Luga. Oranienbaum was taken. And infantry created a new line in front of the Volkhov, and approached the Valdai. 4th Panzer group cut off the land route to Leningrad and occupied the main assault positions for the Neva. Seeing that the fortification level on the Eastern end of the Neva was still manageable left us extremely confident that Leningrad was not a question of if but of when. The only disappointment to date was the holding fast of the Janisjarvi line.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 4:08:55 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 108
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/25/2017 4:27:46 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 8 13-August-1941 Center



Our Velkie Luki pocket should not have been broken - but it was. A para drop provided the critical extra hex to make the link up. The battle results mean probably a lot of paratroops died before touching ground. In some ways the transports are outdoing their own fighters when it comes to aerial combat - it is not often the Luftwaffe goes in to battle with three fighters and loses four of them! This respite however is only delaying their demise - so it is in effect sacrificing an airborne brigade and transports to keep units alive for just one more turn.




Meanwhile our infantry pursues the enemy to their new positions being prepared on the upper Volga and even makes a first crossing against the upper Dnepr line. South of Smolensk the situation is still fluid as we chase after Soviet units that are probably not in their intended positions and have not dug in. Finally our forces meet at the eastern end of the Pripyat marshes - from now onwards the Centre-South boundary will be moving the other way.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 4:12:47 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 109
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/27/2017 4:36:28 PM   
thedude357


Posts: 87
Joined: 10/13/2012
From: California
Status: offline 		Turn 8 Army Group South

6th Army continues to push northeast and solidify the line with Army Group Center. 17th, 11th, and Romanian Armies continue to push east as well.

1st Panzer Group finds an open hole Northeast and blasts all the way to Kharkov as well as taking Poltava. Kharkov had plenty of industry left, but the T34 tank factory already was evacuated. Everything else was in tact and the 20 point vehicle factory is a fine consolation prize as well as the SU-2 tactical bomber factory and 15 armaments. Dtown and Ztown are put under pressure, and Soviet forces will have to scramble to fill the very large hole in their line. The BIG question is, where will the panzer thrust head next?




< Message edited by thedude357 -- 9/27/2017 4:38:57 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 110
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/28/2017 3:50:55 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 8 13-August-1941 Air War



A big step up in Soviet aggression as they attack our airfields in the North and Centre. This caught us off guard - many of our fighter groups had been left casually alone on forward airbases. To be honest we had got lazy never expecting anything. So this was a useful corrective. The Soviet air force incurred heavy losses in these actions, and it will leave them more fatigued during our turn - which they will certainly pay the cost for. But losing so many fighters a turn is not something we can sustain - even though the majority were in airgroups set to withdraw in the next few turns.



The results from our own airfield bombing have seen a particular step up this turn.




And our ground commanders leave all fighter bombers switched to bombing missions and see no reason to send escorts for their bombing missions.



But to be charitable we leave a small gift for our Soviet opponenets - some fighter groups are left on an airbase near the front perfectly placed for Soviet airfield bombing - but will they take our gift?



Turn 8 13-August-1941 Economic

So far the advance of Axis forces has meant the following factories have been lost by the Soviet Union

47 Arms (4 Minsk, 3 Kirovgrad, 3 Krivoi Rog, 3 Odessa, 2 Kremenchug, 3 Nikolaev, 6 Dnepropetrovsk, 8 Poltava, 15 Kharkhov)
24 Hvy (4 Minsk, 3 Kirovgrad, 3 Krivoi Rog, 3 Odessa, 2 Kremenchug, 3 Nikolaev, 2 Dnepropetrovsk, 4 Kharkhov)
20 Vehicle (20 Kharkhov)
Su-2 (Kharkhov)

Su-2
The Red Air Force starts the game with 471 Su-2 aircraft, and no arriving airgroups arrive equipped with this airframe. The Su-2 factory at Kharkhov produces 12 aircraft a turn and continues until March 1942 - this would mean a production of 492 aircraft. However its location at Kharkhov makes it very likely that at some stage in every game it would have to be evacuated before the bad weather in 1941. This would mean it spends 17 turns being repaired - the probabilities would mean we should expect in just under 9 of them there would be no production. This would mean a loss of almost 107 aircraft. The fact that the Su-2 factory was overrun at Kharkhov means we know 408 Su-2s will now never be produced, or 301 fewer than we would have expected if the factory had been evacuated.

[The Economic Section was originally post 112]

In the fourth week of our concerted strategic bombing campaign we continue to attack targets accross the Soviet Union. But interceptors are an increasing priority. The first LAGG-3 factory comes into range near Gorky. And the red air force by the end of our turn has ceased to run any interceptions at all - our bombing of the MiGG-3 factory in Moscow is unopposed.



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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 4:20:15 PM >

(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 111
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/28/2017 6:32:41 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 8 Allocations

For information only - team allocations and submissions for turn 8 attached.

Also click the following links for

https://i.imgur.com/hsY2RHd.png command boundaries (Centre-South only)

[The original post 112 was moved to the end of post 111]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/1/2018 8:20:32 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 112
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/28/2017 9:08:18 PM   
thedude357


Posts: 87
Joined: 10/13/2012
From: California
Status: offline 		Turn 9 Army Group South

Soviet forces are in full retreat. 6th, 11th, 17th, and the Romanian Armies are in an all out sprint east to maintain contact with the Soviets.

Instead of pushing north towards Voronezh as the Soviets were expecting, 1st PzG conducts a FEINT and circles around the Stalino area instead and cuts off all rail exits. All of the industry in the Stalino area is intact and is now trapped...38 armament points, 13 heavy industry, and 5 vehicle factories cannot evacuate. This is a huge blow to Soviet industry and the consequences will be felt for the duration of the war. A panzer corps will be isolated next turn, but at reasonable risk. 2 panzer corps in the rear will perform a HQBU to attempt the breakout next turn. JU52s supply the soon to be isolated panzer corps...and are highly successful as there is no red air force to speak of. We shall see how the Soviets respond to Stalino.

Upon hearing the news of Stalino rail being cut off, we now see a rare glimpse of footage as the Commander of Army Group South walks into a staff meeting:




Army Group South Sector





< Message edited by thedude357 -- 9/28/2017 9:09:22 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 113
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/28/2017 9:46:53 PM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		what a surprising move. i guess the bulk of the red army has to fight with sticks and shovels from 1943 on because of the stunning industry loses.


(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 114
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/29/2017 2:06:30 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedude357

Upon hearing the news of Stalino rail being cut off, we now see a rare glimpse of footage as the Commander of Army Group South walks into a staff meeting:





Now that is a strut and a half!

[The following was originally post 116]

It might be worth commenting on what happened on the lead up to this turns events in the South. We did have some hard going in the early turns in the South - so there was a legacy of feeling we were lagging there. However once we crossed the Dnepr it became obvious that the Soviet forces were heading in to opposite directions, northwards (presumably south west front) and eastwards (presumably southern front). So not only were they no longer mutually supporting, they left a big gap in the middle - with the name Kharkhov sitting in it. So great move by thedude357, but not totally unseen before. But this lead to the strategic position in turn 9 where the Soviets could not cover all of the possibilities we had opened up for ourselves.




In turn 9 even the forces to the east split again with one group going to Crimea and another to Stalino. So the paucity was there to see. As the Soviets evacuated the Il-2 factories at Voronezh it is clear they were worried about an attack in that direction. My own thoughts were for the motorised at Kharkhov to head north west to meet the 1st cavalry there. It would have displaced many airbases left in front of their troops. And converted a broad swath of hexes to friendly control allowing our infantry to race up to Kursk. But pretty lame compared to what thedude357 did. So it was a gasp to see the result, and genuinely innovative to see that great move. The motorised were placed so that every rail hex needing repair was within 5 hexes of them. If they were going to repair the hexes (a big if with auto soviet rail repair in 1941), they were also going to need to push one of those motorised units out by 1 hex. And that could not wait one turn for them to be surrounded. Added to this the port of Mariupol was bombed to put it out of action and the Airlanding division cut the rail link to Crimea. So even if they transported in many units, they probably could not have closed off the area south west of Stalino. Nevertheless a nail biting end of turn to see how tough the rescue operation of the Panzer corps would be next turn. But a great result this turn.

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 4:29:32 PM >

(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 115
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/29/2017 5:54:49 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 9 20-August-1941 North



Making the final approaches before the killer pounce.




[This was originally post 118]
[The original post 116 was moved to the end of post 115]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 4:23:09 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 116
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 9/30/2017 1:01:01 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 9 20-August-1941 Centre

Centre's ongoing rampage through the western front continues. Although still very loose, almost the whole of the Soviet front from Vyazma to Bryansk is outflanked or surrounded. There seems to be no Soviet forces between ours and Tula. South and North are starting to push their boundaries in to centre so that it can further concentrate. And loaned motorised forces are on their way to being returned. The battle for Moscow is on.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 4:24:48 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 117
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 10/2/2017 12:25:46 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 9 20-August-1941 Air War

This time we were ready



No more bombing in the North!

quote:

Original Turn 8 13-August-1941 Air War
But to be charitable we leave a small gift for our Soviet opponenets - some fighter groups are left on an airbase near the front perfectly placed for Soviet airfield bombing - but will they take our gift?


Did they ever!



They lost 20 aircraft destroying 9 of our fighters. And the same again for a second bombing run. Except of course the gifted airgroups were withdrawing at the end of last turn - as far as War in the East is concerned the Axis have lost nothing. The Allied commanders of War in the West though will be very grateful.

With the Soviet air offensive blunted we turn to ours.



Curiously many of their airbases are deployed in front of their ground forces. Perhaps they thought they were too far to be displaced. However our first cavalry division travelling directly East managed to displace four on its own



Palpably Soviet interception has considerably degraded.



Soon Soviet fighters do not even defend their own airfields.



And ground commanders see no need to use fighters in their gos.



The air losses speak for themselves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir, Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome
I must admit I never bothered to do the math on the I-Type fighters.

On the I-16 Type 24 alone, the Soviets will have some 2574 spread over starting Air Groups, Reinforcements and the Reserve Pool.

I just figured I would never get "through" them before the Soviets had enough good fightera available.


There is a point when the numbers get big enough that the unthinkable has to be thought - but are our opponents up for it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS, Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome
I'd like to see a screenshot of Soviet air losses by airframe if someone can manage that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS, Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome
Thanks Dinglir. Game to date is what I'm after, not turn.
This is my calculation on the I-type....


We have started keeping a careful track of our opponents aircraft numbers. We know from common game scenario data how many aircraft they have in their pools and airgroups to begin with, and how many would come with arrivals or are made in their factories. Both sides also know the losses as they are presented by the user interface by both sides to both sides. The only information the Soviet team would know that the Axis does not is when aircraft factories do actually stop producing because of damage, although using the probabilities we can calculate the expected number. The results are contained in the spreadsheet attached to this post. The picture it paints for Soviet interception is stark



The Red Air Force is facing an interceptor crunch. Their number of modern interceptors (MiGG-3, LaGG-3, Yak-1) is now slowly declining. Ontop of losses exceeding their normal undisturbed production levels, Yak-1 capacity expansion has been arrested by bombing for turns now and given the damage we would expect at least one of their interceptor factories to not produce every turn. But even more so the number of I16 and I15 type fighters is rapidly declining. Overall interceptor numbers have decreased by a third even after turn 1.

The line in the chart called airgroups represents the number of fighter trained airgroups in the scenario, both at start and a few arrivals. It has been calibrated to the number of aircraft vertical axis at 20 per airgroup - the number the vast majority will have as their full complement. If our Soviet opponents have not created any new fighter trained airgroups, not allocated fighter bombers to bomber trained airgroups, and replacements are perfectly allocated then there should still be a few hundred spare in the pools. The reality is they usually will not be perfectly allocated and a global shortage will start to impinge on each airgroups complement of aircraft.

Currently the number of airgroups we see on the map each turn would represent the vast bulk of the Red Air Force if they have not created any new airgroups. Given the battering they are getting at the end of each turn it is clear they are all still set to receiving replacements. This could only have been achieved if many Soviet airgroups were swapping air models, both sideswapping and downgrading. Either they are spending points to manage the airforce this way, or they have left it to the auto airswap system of the AI. The problem is in this situation the auto swapping system can autoswap the same airgroup multiple times as it recalculates each turn which aircraft type is in shortage. Each swap can lead to aircraft being damaged and airgroup experience lost - further compounding their air problems. The AI will not itself prioritise replacements and modern equipment to more experienced airgroups. If all airgroups are left to the automatic system all airgroups will be roughly the same amount under complement with aircraft types just as likely to go to any level of experience or morale airgroup. To avoid this predicament the Soviet team will have to either micromanage the swap and replacement settings for airgroups, but that will mean overall more aircraft in the pool rather than in airgroups. Or they will have to manage the air force by spending points. The Soviet team has reached the interceptor crunch.

Attached: Soviet aircraft track

The attached spreadsheet has been shared with the Soviet team, although it has since been errored checked against total losses and some small typos corrected. It contains Bitter End v1.10 scenario data for Soviet airgroups, pools and aircraft factories together with formulas to produce an overall number of aircraft of each type for each turn. Others are free to download and use this as they wish. It is possible to update for scenario data in other versions. As I have not played the Soviets for a late turn in a recent version there are likely to be errors in later turn data. For instance it is not always clear to me what is the starting capacity for every aircraft factory. I would be grateful if you let me know of any errors you spot in this spreadsheet.

[HLYA admit it you are hooked - you want to do spreadsheets!]
[This was originally post 126]
[The original post 118 was moved to the end of post 116]

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< Message edited by Telemecus -- 6/2/2018 2:58:09 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 118
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 10/2/2017 2:48:01 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 9 20-August-1941 Centre

Centre's ongoing rampage through the western front continues. Although still very loose, almost the whole of the Soviet front from Vyazma to Bryansk is outflanked or surrounded. There seems to be no Soviet forces between ours and Tula. South and North are starting to push their boundaries in to centre so that it can further concentrate. And loaned motorised forces are on their way to being returned. The battle for Moscow is on.




Someone help me out please. WTH are the units in the highlighted yellow box actually guarding for the Soviets? I know this is the German side but sheeeessshhhh. These units might as well be in Siberia imho.

What will the HI and Arms count be after the capture of all these towns?

I would wish you all good luck but I really don't think you need it at the moment.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 119
RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread - 10/2/2017 2:57:24 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

It might be worth commenting on what happened on the lead up to this turns events in the South. We did have some hard going in the early turns in the South - so there was a legacy of feeling we were lagging there. However once we crossed the Dnepr it became obvious that the Soviet forces were heading in to opposite directions, northwards (presumably south west front) and eastwards (presumably southern front). So not only were they no longer mutually supporting, they left a big gap in the middle - with the name Kharkhov sitting in it. So great move by thedude357, but not totally unseen before. But this lead to the strategic position in turn 9 where the Soviets could not cover all of the possibilities we had opened up for ourselves.



In turn 9 even the forces to the east split again with one group going to Crimea and another to Stalino. So the paucity was there to see. As the Soviets evacuated the Il-2 factories at Voronezh it is clear they were worried about an attack in that direction. My own thoughts were for the motorised at Kharkhov to head north west to meet the 1st cavalry there. It would have displaced many airbases left in front of their troops. And converted a broad swath of hexes to friendly control allowing our infantry to race up to Kursk. But pretty lame compared to what thedude357 did. So it was a gasp to see the result, and genuinely innovative to see that great move. The motorised were placed so that every rail hex needing repair was within 5 hexes of them. If they were going to repair the hexes (a big if with auto soviet rail repair in 1941), they were also going to need to push one of those motorised units out by 1 hex. And that could not wait one turn for them to be surrounded. Added to this the port of Mariupol was bombed to put it out of action and the Airlanding division cut the rail link to Crimea. So even if they transported in many units, they probably could not have closed off the area south west of Stalino. Nevertheless a nail biting end of turn to see how tough the rescue operation of the panzer corps would be next turn. But a great result this turn.


Soviets are grossly out of place strategically. Good jobs taking advantage of the situation. When you have someone on the ropes hit harder ;-) Keep it up

_____________________________


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 120
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