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What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a Sentry in CMANO?

 
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What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a Sentr... - 10/4/2017 10:50:43 AM   
SUPER65

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/4/2017
Status: offline 		Sentry sensors:
-AN/APY-2
-AN/AYR-2

Rivet Joint sensors:
-AN/APQ-122(V)
-Generic ESM

The only different sensor that has the Rivet Joint that does not have the Sentry is the AN/APQ-122 which is use for ground mapping.

Has this sensor real use in game?

Thanks
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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 11:00:45 AM   
ExNusquam

 

Posts: 513
Joined: 3/4/2014
From: Washington, D.C.
Status: offline 		I'm not sure where to check since Baloogan's wiki isn't really working at the moment, but I believe the "Generic ESM (Advanced)" on the Combat Sent/Rivet Joint can detect a greater range of frequencies.

(in reply to SUPER65)
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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 1:17:25 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		The Rivet Joint's primary sensor is passive (ESM). The Sentry's primary sensor is active (APY-2 radar). World of difference.

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 10/4/2017 1:24:16 PM >

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 1:28:31 PM   
jtoatoktoe

 

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Status: offline 		I would say the Sentry IRL is Command/Control Early Warning, while the Rivet Joint is more geared toward data and intel collecting.

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 1:40:42 PM   
SUPER65

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/4/2017
Status: offline 		I mean, if the Sentry also equip a ESM sensor, would have it the same capacities as the Rivet Joint?

Ground mapping radar (Rivet Joint) is usefull in game?

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 2:03:48 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SUPER65

I mean, if the Sentry also equip a ESM sensor, would have it the same capacities as the Rivet Joint?

Ground mapping radar (Rivet Joint) is usefull in game?


Yeah. Only detects targets that are moving too.

M


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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 3:34:50 PM   
Dimitris

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SUPER65
I mean, if the Sentry also equip a ESM sensor, would have it the same capacities as the Rivet Joint?


If it's exactly the same system then yes. If not, no.

quote:


Ground mapping radar (Rivet Joint) is usefull in game?

If it is surface- or land-search capable then yes.


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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 3:58:36 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Here is an interesting article that debunks a claim from earlier last year the RAF version (Airseeker) has a jamming capability: https://theaviationist.com/2016/05/19/the-brand-new-raf-rivet-joint-aircraft-fried-daesh-communications-with-massive-jamming-attack-in-libya/

The ground surveillance radar capability is hugely important to a ground commander's ISTAR plan - but you cannot expect instant results. Yes you will get tracks of moving entities on the ground and you will probably be able to identify key routes, concentrations and/or opportunities - but it will not tell you what is there.

To do that you need a fully integrated intelligence fusion capability which can link the ground tracks that the RJ is giving you with a known force, capability or theat. The RJ gives you one piece (albeit and important piece) of the picture. Given the numbers available and the potential tasks, these are the classic 'High Demand - low Density' assets.

In COMMAND, since ground combat is really not a major part of the game, the ESM capability is what you need. Place it at 90* to another sensor (like an E3) and you get better and more reliable intelligence of the bad guys.

B

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 4:00:07 PM   
Cik

 

Posts: 671
Joined: 10/5/2016
Status: offline 		rivet joints are great. detects emitting bandits at up to ~2000nm which is pretty absurd.

downside being that they have to be emitting, but still they are often the star player of my support team.

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 4:30:08 PM   
SUPER65

 

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Status: offline 		Very usefull, thank you.

"90*" means perpendicular headings?

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 5:07:40 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

"90*" means perpendicular headings?


yes-ish. You will often have to triangulate to determine where a target it. A single sensor will (or may, depending on sensor, target, jamming etc) give you a large probability zone along an axes on a line between the target and the sensor. Put another sensor out at right angles to the 1st sensor and the two working together narrow down the probability area substantially. Add a third or 4th sensor looking in at different angles and you get a better resolution.

Often you cannot get a 2nd sensor to the optimal position because the bad guy has a tendency to shoot them down, so you need to adapt and improvise as best as you can. Two sensors along the same Observer/target line will not give you significantly better resolution, but by increasing the angle even a little you may be able to improve it.



B

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 8:55:27 PM   
ExNusquam

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

quote:

ORIGINAL: SUPER65
I mean, if the Sentry also equip a ESM sensor, would have it the same capacities as the Rivet Joint?


If it's exactly the same system then yes. If not, no.

This is the part I was trying to answer in my reply - I believe the RC-135's have better ESM than the E-3s in the database (they certainly do in real life).

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 8:59:39 PM   
Cik

 

Posts: 671
Joined: 10/5/2016
Status: offline 		RC-135 is god's eye to be honest. if you wanted to you could probably pick up a su-27 on another planet with it. i don't really get anywhere near the range on E-3 as with RC-135. generic ESM (advanced) is better than almost anything range-wise IIRC.

< Message edited by Cik -- 10/4/2017 9:00:45 PM >

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/4/2017 11:36:03 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


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From: California, United States
Status: offline 		I could be wrong, but could the difference between Rivet Joint and Sentry be compared to the difference between passive and active sonar?

Rivet Joint listens for, picks up and identifies stuff that way, whereas the Sentry uses active radar methods to identify those same things.

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RE: What are the advantages of a Rivet Joint versus a S... - 10/5/2017 4:31:11 AM   
Dimitris

 

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Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfLifeExpert

I could be wrong, but could the difference between Rivet Joint and Sentry be compared to the difference between passive and active sonar?

Rivet Joint listens for, picks up and identifies stuff that way, whereas the Sentry uses active radar methods to identify those same things.


Yes, the "flashlight in a dark room" principle is the same.

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