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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/25/2017 9:20:38 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Turn 12 up for the Axis.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 181
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/27/2017 7:37:33 PM   
thedude357


Posts: 87
Joined: 10/13/2012
From: California
Status: offline 		Hortlund we miss you, Telemecus didn't mean those terrible things he said about you.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 182
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/27/2017 8:21:07 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Marshal V. Hortlundski is under investigation for the following: Damaging the combat power of the Red Army that are crimes under Articles 58-1b, 58-11 RSFSR Criminal Code...A judicial investigation will determine whether the defendant Hortlundski being the Chief of Staff of the Red Army, during the outbreak of hostilities with the German forces against the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, failed to perform his duties in that he allowed the collapse of command and control, surrender of weapons to the enemy without fighting, willful abandonment of military positions, and enabled the enemy to break through the front of the Red Army.

In short, Comrade Stalin needs a scapegoat...

(in reply to thedude357)
Post #: 183
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/29/2017 6:04:13 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Marshal V. Hortlundski is under investigation for the following: Damaging the combat power of the Red Army that are crimes under Articles 58-1b, 58-11 RSFSR Criminal Code...A judicial investigation will determine whether the defendant Hortlundski being the Chief of Staff of the Red Army, during the outbreak of hostilities with the German forces against the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, failed to perform his duties in that he allowed the collapse of command and control, surrender of weapons to the enemy without fighting, willful abandonment of military positions, and enabled the enemy to break through the front of the Red Army.

In short, Comrade Stalin needs a scapegoat...

I hope Hortlundski has a good political rating.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 184
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 11:47:01 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Following a council of the leaders of the Axis nations we have agreed to extend a generous and magnanimous gesture to the Soviet Union. We will not insist that your total surrender be delivered in German.

Turn 12 save in dropbox

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 185
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 2:44:35 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Following a council of the leaders of the Axis nations we have agreed to extend a generous and magnanimous gesture to the Soviet Union. We will not insist that your total surrender be delivered in German.

Turn 12 save in dropbox


The Soviet authorities acknowledge and appreciate the Axis offer, as our Russian-German dictionaries have all been used up in the bathroom stalls of the STAVKA.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 186
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 3:00:51 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Following a council of the leaders of the Axis nations we have agreed to extend a generous and magnanimous gesture to the Soviet Union. We will not insist that your total surrender be delivered in German.

Turn 12 save in dropbox


The Soviet authorities acknowledge and appreciate the Axis offer, as our Russian-German dictionaries have all been used up in the bathroom stalls of the STAVKA.


hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

_____________________________


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 187
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 8:05:25 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Following a council of the leaders of the Axis nations we have agreed to extend a generous and magnanimous gesture to the Soviet Union. We will not insist that your total surrender be delivered in German.

Turn 12 save in dropbox


The Soviet authorities acknowledge and appreciate the Axis offer, as our Russian-German dictionaries have all been used up in the bathroom stalls of the STAVKA.

Ran out of Pravda, did we?

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 188
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/3/2017 11:50:35 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Following a council of the leaders of the Axis nations we have agreed to extend a generous and magnanimous gesture to the Soviet Union. We will not insist that your total surrender be delivered in German.

Turn 12 save in dropbox


The Soviet authorities acknowledge and appreciate the Axis offer, as our Russian-German dictionaries have all been used up in the bathroom stalls of the STAVKA.

Ran out of Pravda, did we?


OKH bathroom stalls

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 189
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/5/2017 11:49:16 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Heya guys I have taken over the command of the Leningrad and northern fronts looking forward to playing with you all

I am told we are to be opponents in yet another game Lowsugar!

I feel I must forewarn you that I won a great victory against as soon as I took command

Your regiment was seen fleeing the battle in pure terror
I fear the war is as good as done with a victory as grand as that my friend....

Russian optimism is the best optimism :)

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 190
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/5/2017 12:52:47 PM   
lowsugar

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 2/19/2017
Status: offline 		Too much vodka comrade:-)

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 191
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/5/2017 1:22:47 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Welcome SparkleyTits

I guess that means we are enemies and comrades-in-arms at the same time. You have a duel elsewhere with lowsugar? Is this going to be like one of those soap operas where we need a complicated diagram to explain who hates who and who is sleeping with who?

M60A3TTS, Sardaukar, Lictuel, take care of the new kid on the block!

The Axis team is, with my choice of quotes of things they have said in-game

lowsugar - North
quote:

ORIGINAL: lowsugar
Leningrad isolated, nothing more happened.


Stelteck - Centre
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
It is not the bicycle, it is the big, fat tank who drag them !!!



thedude357 - South
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedude357
Upon hearing the news of Stalino rail being cut off, we now see a rare glimpse of footage as the Commander of Army Group South walks into a staff meeting:



And of course moi, the fourth Supreme

(in reply to lowsugar)
Post #: 192
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/6/2017 3:28:39 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Turn 13 up for the Axis.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 193
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/6/2017 3:34:19 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		OK, now I'm not a happy camper. Stelteck is again in the Soviet thread, and I want to discuss penalties.




(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 194
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/6/2017 7:04:18 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

OK, now I'm not a happy camper. Stelteck is again in the Soviet thread, and I want to discuss penalties.


Perhaps freezing all Axis units for a turn or 2?

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 195
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/7/2017 5:40:10 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Thanks for giving me time to get back to you - I wanted to make sure I contacted all in the team, and with different time zones, people travelling and so on it needed a while to communicate with everyone.

At the beginning we said we would not see each others threads and it said so in the very first post of the sign up thread. A game of War in the East takes a lot of time normally, and we have put maybe more time into making this team game work. And being a team game means we need to communicate with each other so it is more exposed than a solo game. So it can feel bad and that you have had your time cheated from you if it looks like this has been taken advantage of.

As the issue is it can look like we have an unfair advantage in knowing Soviet team information I thought it was best to address that directly. Can I suggest we give everyone on the Soviet team all information about the Axis side from the first turn until and including this one. I will make screenshots to cover all the hexes we control in the Soviet Union now. Also I will collect up all of the detailed team instructions for every turn. Some of it is still scattered in private messages and files, so it would take me a little while to collect absolutely everything together - but I will do that during this turn and post when it is complete. I would like to do this anyway for our AAR as a future record that anyone can use. It includes very detailed things, like how much rail cap we each use, so a lot of it may be boring unless you are interested in that too. I can put these in the game dropbox for all to see and post them in the thread for both sides. And you should be able to look at and post in our AAR until we send the save for this turn back to you.

Basically it would mean we have nothing left that is confidential. As this would at least match everything we could have seen from your AAR we could not have any advantage. And as there would be more than that it would mean it would have been to our disadvantage if we had deliberately seen the others AAR. Does this seem fair? It is something we need to know from all the Soviet team as I know if it does not you will lose the motivation to play and we have no game at all.

I know M60A3TTS' messaged me with the suggestion to freeze armies for a turn. My worry with that is it could create new contentions rather than solve the one we have. Someone can always say that it was not enough, or that it was too much and was used to change the game. Again it could leave players on both sides demotivated and see them leave. There is no objective way of knowing, and it is not necessary as we can exactly match and go further in the exact issue of information. It also opens the pandora's box of what happens next time, there have been so many occasions of this that it probably will happen again. The game would become so distorted that players on both sides might just not feel they are playing War in the East anymore.

I think we also need to pause the game for a while to work out a solution. I think it was when the first game file came from the Soviet team that I rushed in and posted a whole message before realising it was in the Soviet forum - presumably it is still there. I have been looking at the forums almost daily and clicking with abandon on different threads. So, but for a bit of luck, it could have been me. Given that it could cause so much anger or distrust it is something I want to do more to avoid now. I do n't know if there is a software solution. Or maybe I just have to accept that during this game I have to change my habits and not look at the forums regularly, casually or while multi tasking; or even at all. But I do need to work something out, and the others in the Axis team and I imagine Soviet will want to as well.

There is the bigger issue of trust and fun, and if we have lost that then anything else we do will not make a difference. Do players on both sides feel if we do the above it will make the game good again?

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 196
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/7/2017 6:27:17 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Maybe it was a slip of the hand or some such thing?
I see very little reason to why one person would purposefully do that kind of thing at the risk of 7 others enjoyment that would be very self indulgent to say the least

I myself have quite a few times almost clicked on the wrong threads and I have had to give each one a second read now to make sure I am allowed but that might me being in both Soviets and Axis 8 player games

Whatever the case Telemecus has a great idea to put us all on even footing without anything escalating as freezing units seems rather disjointed for the flow of all 8 players and it would create an atmosphere of "We won/lost because of that" etc which could drain the fun for all of us

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 197
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/7/2017 9:05:57 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		I am going to take a hard line here.

The proposal being discussed are freezing two specific armies of AGC this turn only. The fix to this problem is a totally different issue and is an easy one. We will stop posting any meaningful information in the STAVKA thread. Starting on turn 18 which is the first turn of mud, anyone from the Axis side is free to read everything from the beginning going forward. All our sensitive communications will now go by way of PM. If before that time someone else from the Axis side shows up on our thread, then you can open up yours and that will be the end of it.

To be honest, in this case what the Soviet team thinks is fair isn't important as I'm not putting this to a vote. If they have a problem with what is proposed they can take it up with me. If on the other hand one or more people on the Axis side thinks this is too harsh, then you are certainly free to say so. This isn't about intent, if you run over someone in a crosswalk while texting, it's still a crime.

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 198
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/8/2017 2:58:38 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Yes sir!

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 199
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 3:17:49 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Yes sir!

(I want to keep my head free of NKVD bullets after all)

(in reply to SparkleyTits)
Post #: 200
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 6:10:36 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Thanks and do understand.

We have to be careful that at the end of the day this is a voluntary leisure activity so nobody can make anyone else to play or not play. So whatever our roles in the game, about the game we have no special roles at all - we are all equal.

M60A3TTS, I know you were not individually responsible for the Soviet rule infringements so I do understand you have the right to hold a line. There are others in exactly the same situation, there was no penalisation of the rules broken before and it is a big ask to someone to give their free time to a game in which things passed, and feel they have done nothing wrong and are now being penalised. It can be asked for as a favour, or with the enticement of an interesting and fun game in future. I think most people will try to make an effort to find a solution when someone feels aggrieved. It cannot be coerced.

I would like to broker something that is good enough for as many people as possible to continue the game. Personally I do think the approach of exactly matching what was lost, and more to make it detrimental to the infringing side was a good one as it would avoid all arguments about whether it left someone off the hook or was being used for advantage. If anyone thinks there is any way to make that work let us know. If there is no common place we want to play at, then we are at an impasse.

At the end of the day a game can only occur if a group mutually consent to it. Any individual has the possibility of exit at any time. There are no votes because it needs the unanimity of all who participate. So long as there is one person on one side who has one password, someone on the other side with the other password, and one of them has the save file, then a game, or many forked games, can continue. Without it you have none.

If we cannot find some formula that all can agree to then we simply have to fork the game. We'll have one with frozen armies and one with whatever other solution might work. I will volunteer for both and everyone can choose to do both or either. Maybe everyone will in the end agree to one and we will go with that. Maybe we can work together to persuade others to go with just one of them. Or we can allow others to join or agree to rule changes to have smaller teams. Obviously it will be harder for both to carry on rather than just one.

The reality is there may have been people on each side who would have gone with both or either possibility but would now prefer to go with neither. I have been able to recruit others to the game as a replacements before. But there is not a fun proposition at the moment to attract anyone. We can see what happens but it may be we have to pause otherwise. Maybe some would like to continue this as a solo game with someone on the other side. There is always the possibility of some in future being able to carry this on, some version of it, or different forks of it. And there is another team game we can involve ourselves in. So possibilities will always remain.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 201
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 6:22:37 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		I will say "yes" to freezing, opening of AARs or no penalty at all, whatever is chosen.
It would be sad if the game ends for this reason or if team relations are spoiled in any way.
The Soviet team in the past repeatedly violated the no partisans resupply rule, so its 1:1.
And I am willing to assume no ill will of the Axis side of course.


< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 10/9/2017 6:28:04 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 202
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 7:17:15 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Ok, I will agree to you sharing your thread if it includes your coming half of this turn.

That's pretty much my final offer.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 203
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 7:53:07 PM   
Lictuel

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/18/2013
Status: offline 		Just for the record: I'm fine with either of the posted solutions.

Fact is it is impossible for us to judge if anyone from either side has had a look at one of the threads. In theory one could simply visit the forum without signing in and read everything without real traces. I'd have preferred to have some kind of solution like slack / discord or something for each team. That way it would be way way harder to listen in on the plannings of the teams. Also maybe something like that is a possible solution to prevent such issues going forward.

Of course that means someone would have to set such a system up. Using PMs is a possibility as well but at least to me the PMs feel a bit unwieldy but they are secret so...

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 204
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/10/2017 1:40:09 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Many thanks M60A3TTS! I know how significant what you said is. I did want to make sure the whole team knew about it so I could give an answer for all. One of our team though was last in contact by message in an airport lounge after a long distance flight and before transferring to the next one so it may be a while before they know. So please do not think a delay in responding is a rebuff!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lictuel
slack / discord... Using PMs is a possibility as well but at least to me the PMs feel a bit unwieldy but they are secret so...


I did actually contact a moderator to ask if we could voluntarily ban ourselves from a particular thread. I do not know if this is possible, or even if moderators would be happy to do such requests for single games. I was also thinking whether the software that can prevent you clicking on to certain sites could be used to prevent us clicking on a particular thread. Although that would not help if we log in from another computer for instance at an internet cafe. Anything that can guard us from being only one click away from the other forum would be a benefit to us all.

Lictuel, I remember you mentioned Slack before. I checked it out then and tried to again now. But none of the material explains easily what it is. The description seems to imply it is something like an instant messaging client like google chat or MSN messenger. Is there any place that gives a good explanation - preferably with pictures?

The problem with the matrix PM system is that it does not allow messages to more than five people, so already I cannot send a message to the whole Soviet team plus reserves and copy myself. Also it lacks the structure of a forum or file system where single items can be stored for repeated use. Searching through scattered messages is always messy. Also if the material is structured it can always be copied easily to an AAR in the matrix forums after the game has finished.

A nice to have, perhaps, is when users outside the game can visit and interact. Would Slack/Discord be something like a place you could go to by clicking a link on your current forum thread, visitors can request access, and you can decided who does or does not get to view?

Perhaps also we should not worry about the nice to haves but just solve the issue at hand.

(in reply to Lictuel)
Post #: 205
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/10/2017 5:10:55 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
I did actually contact a moderator to ask if we could voluntarily ban ourselves from a particular thread. I do not know if this is possible, or even if moderators would be happy to do such requests for single games.


A moderator did very kindly get back to me on this. They said they could not stop click throughs to read forum threads. But they could retitle, pin or move a forum thread. I think the pinning would not stop the STAVKA thread becoming the first option on AARs on the war in the East forum page every time someone made a post there - although if I got that wrong let us know. There is the option though that the team forum could be moved to another forum section. Possibly not within the War in the East area for now - although it could be moved back after the end of the game. I guess it is still possible to leave a pinned message in the AAR section to let those outside the game who wish to visit to know where it is or even when a new message has been posted there? If not in the AAR section or even War in the East then at least it would not be one click away from being viewed. If any of this is useful to the soviet team let me know and I can forward the moderators PM for you to contact them.

I am quite impressed that a staff/moderator is offering to help on this. I also hope it shows some kudos to the players on the game and the contributions they have made elsewhere, and also to the concept of a team game we have pursued.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 206
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/10/2017 6:13:52 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		Discord would be a great idea I think!

We have been using emailing a lot in our other 8 player game but I think discord would be a step up on that

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 207
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/12/2017 1:40:58 PM   
Lictuel

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/18/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Lictuel, I remember you mentioned Slack before. I checked it out then and tried to again now. But none of the material explains easily what it is. The description seems to imply it is something like an instant messaging client like google chat or MSN messenger. Is there any place that gives a good explanation - preferably with pictures?


It is somewhat like MSN messenger in that it is a chat client but you can have different "rooms" bots etc pp. I only brought it up because we use it @work and it can be very handy.

I think discord would be even better though since you can easily create chat channels there that only users with certain roles can enter. It would require someone to set one up though. I can look into this today.

One minor problem with that: one user will have to have admin rights and would in theory be able to access both teams channels. If I set up a server afaik I would have that power. Seeing how I'm part of the soviet team I would understand if people would be reluctant to go for this based on that potential issue. I can look into how that can be managed

< Message edited by Lictuel -- 10/12/2017 1:46:06 PM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 208
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/12/2017 2:24:34 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		I'm sorry guys, I read both sides of the AAR. I will put myself in timeout now ;-P

_____________________________


(in reply to Lictuel)
Post #: 209
RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/12/2017 4:15:32 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Ok, I will agree to you sharing your thread if it includes your coming half of this turn.


Managed to get a few messages in to the last member of the team and am sure they are good to carry on. Can we say yes to your offer. I know it was a big issue so we do appreciate it. We will be updating everything up to and including the Axis part of turn 13. And indeed we feel we need to do better for you than this - it needs to have a lot more detail than it does now. My honest opinion at the moment is what is there now is not detrimental at all - and so just saying yes to that would be in bad faith. So there will also be posted all of the detailed team allocations for each turn and other items mentioned earlier in the thread, plus other items which the team used. I'll also be placing a lot of it in a folder in our game dropbox in advance so you can see it in raw data form before it is posted. As this is a substantial amount of work in itself, and probably is only something I can do from the team, it may take a bit of time to put it all down so would also ask for some patience.

The Soviet team should feel welcome to visit our forum from now - and indeed I hope you will be able to post there. You can continue to do so until we return the game file for turn 13 AND we have updated and uploaded all of this to our AAR for up to and including turn 13. I will post here when all of that is done.

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 210
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