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RE: December 1944 - 10/4/2017 4:34:10 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		December 17, 1944

I've had a ZERO Daitai of Kamikazes stationed at Kendari for months. Set them to train 50% and Naval Attack 100 Ft. They have been quite fruitful to date. This day finds them hitting a TF of 5 LSM at Namlea. No aircover. They 14 planes score 8 hits sinking all five of the little ships.





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RE: December 1944 - 10/4/2017 4:45:04 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		December 17, 1944

Canton--Hong Kong
I've been running troops and supplies from the western DEI to these bases for months without real Allied interference. Canton is now beseiged by the Allies and I had a Brigade plus 5,000 Supply racing in. The TF arrives on the 16th and begins unloading. The 17th sees the Americans finally shift some DB over to deal with this. Since I have been pulling my tired China Fighters and other air units out for R&R and replenishment, there has been no aircover here for 14-18 days during which time I've run in three convoys. THIS convoy gets hammered by about 100 DB losing 9-11 AK/AKL but only AFTER they are unloaded.

We'll try to stage an ambush here over the next convoy (5-6 days) by bringing in 4-5 Daitai/Sentai.

Imperial HQ
At Imperial HQ, orders are issued for the final evacuation of the Aleutians and some units from the Kuriles. If you remember several months ago I pulled all five ID that were stationed up here. We'll now pull five-six Brigades with double that number of other units for redeployment elsewhere...

Soerabaja
The Kaigun is partially disbanded in Port working off some SYS Damage. We've got the last four CVs about done with their upgrades (mentioned earlier). In two days all ships will be ordered to make ready for operations and the Fleet will sail three days after that. All the CVs, except Junyo, will form up and prepare for combat operations. Junyo and all the CVLs will form a TF for Raiding purposes in the south. There is PLENTY of fuel for this operation so it will be like the old days...



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Post #: 5372
RE: December 1944 - 10/4/2017 10:40:55 PM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Supplies - Now that you are under 1 Million, you need to see where is at. Hit the "B" button and sort by supply to see where it may be stockpiled, but shouldn't be. You may need to halt rebuilding LCUs as you need it for new airframes. I would keep a running tally of it and check to what you have every 5 days (since you don't have Tracker).

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Post #: 5373
RE: December 1944 - 10/4/2017 11:32:39 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I've already began to notice an appreciable increase at my main locations.

Feel sooooooooo stupid to have not checked this earlier.

Will do what you ask and Post later on tonight.


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RE: December 1944 - 10/5/2017 2:23:28 PM   
John 3rd


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Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		December 19, 1944

SS Action
The feeding continues in the South Pacific as I-200 attacks and sinks TK Alcides with 3 TT near Noumea.

Kaigun
Hoses are put away. Paint cans are cleaned up. Some areas are still patched while others are fully repaired. The vast majority of its work completed, the Kaigun prepares to leave Soerabaja:

KB-1 Six heavy carriers depart and move towards Singapore on a quick mission.
KB-2 Vc-Adm Yamaguchi looks at his TF of CV Junyo, 5 CVLs, 2 CA (Mogami and Kumano), 1 CL, and 6 DDs and smiles. This is NOT what he is used to commanding but the mission he has been assigned is right up his aggressive alley. His TF weighs anchor and makes course for Balikpapan...

The remaining ships strip down and prepare for the sea.

Osaka
A Tanker Convoy drops anchor here and 61,955 Fuel and 54,606 Oil begin flowing into the Port.

One week total for Fuel 212,000 and Oil 146,800 delivered to the Home Islands.






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RE: December 1944 - 10/5/2017 3:39:54 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		You will notice screwy logistics as you get low...the AI doesn't do well with fuel especially, but really all of it is problematic. You need to create supply bases, where you can feed supply into combat.

I hesitate to see your supply shrinkage in trying to feed the combat in China for example.

You can get by without tracker, but you will need to take notes or screen picutres or a simple spreadsheet.

If you don't measure it, you can't manage it, and the economy won't last as long.

Absolutely no fun playing when supplies go zero. Everything else is tolerable.

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Post #: 5376
RE: December 1944 - 10/5/2017 8:04:31 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I am not sending ANY supplies to China. They will fight and fend for themselves.


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RE: December 1944 - 10/5/2017 8:28:02 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I am not sending ANY supplies to China. They will fight and fend for themselves.


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Canton--Hong Kong
I've been running troops and supplies from the western DEI to these bases for months without real Allied interference.


Just sayin (cause I'm such a swell guy)

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Post #: 5378
RE: December 1944 - 10/5/2017 8:38:55 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I stand corrected. I have run in supplies from the DEI to southern China. My thinking was from Home Ilses to China.

Thanks!


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RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 11:28:16 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Supplies - Now that you are under 1 Million, you need to see where is at. Hit the "B" button and sort by supply to see where it may be stockpiled, but shouldn't be. You may need to halt rebuilding LCUs as you need it for new airframes. I would keep a running tally of it and check to what you have every 5 days (since you don't have Tracker).


But, for VP purposes, there is this:

"Control of Base - Each base has a basic VP level for Allied ownership and one for Japanese
ownership. The final victory point value that is awarded to the controlling player at the end of
the game is figured by the following formula:

»» Basic VP# x [ ( current size of port ) + ( current size of airfield x 2) ]

The basic VP and final VP numbers for each side are displayed for each base when the mouse
cursor is placed over a base (the basic VP number value is in parenthesis).

This full amount of the final VP value is only scored at the end of the game if the base has
supplies at least equal to its needed supplies. If supplies are lower than the required amount,
the VP’s scored will be less than this maximum, (the lower the supplies the lower the scored
VP’s). Bases with 0 supplies would score 25% of the full final points.

Example: Rabaul has a Basic Japanese VP level of 3. Assuming the size of the airfield is 8, and
the size of the port is 7, the Final VP level for Japanese ownership of Rabaul is 3 x [ (7) + (8 x
2) ] or 69. As long as Rabaul had more than its supplies needed, the Japanese player would
score 69. If Rabaul’s supplies were only equal to 30% of its needs, the Japanese player would
score only 33 VP’s."



This calculation is not only made at the end of the game wrap-up. It's made every turn. It seems particularly challenging on islands in the late-game for Japan.

How do Japan players balance the need to supply garrisons to keep 75% of the VPs for the base, with pulling supply home to make airplanes?

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/6/2017 11:29:21 AM >

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RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 2:59:12 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

This calculation is not only made at the end of the game wrap-up. It's made every turn. It seems particularly challenging on islands in the late-game for Japan.

How do Japan players balance the need to supply garrisons to keep 75% of the VPs for the base, with pulling supply home to make airplanes?


Late game I helped stave off autovic by resupplying PM and Rabaul very late in the game. It was certainly something I planned and looked at closely.

In addition, I had 10,000 supplies at a few meaningless bases that could be shipped, so I wasn't shipping from Honshu.

Edit: I played all sorts of games with base, device stockpile settings. It was in effect a game within a game, and I learned how the engine allocates supply between base and field. Very important stuff to understand for when the shortages start showing up.

John's decision to not supply his troops in China, is a mistake I think...you need to get supplies to those front lines, but away from other areas and avoid shrinkage. It can be done.

Supply priority was something like: front line troops, fighter builds and replacements, troop rebuilding (afv, art, aa, ija 43 squads only), supply stockpile cities, preventing desertion, vp management.

There is some natural local transfer of resources etc, thru the Fusan straits with local shipping.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/6/2017 4:22:46 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 4:47:06 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Supplies - Now that you are under 1 Million, you need to see where is at. Hit the "B" button and sort by supply to see where it may be stockpiled, but shouldn't be. You may need to halt rebuilding LCUs as you need it for new airframes. I would keep a running tally of it and check to what you have every 5 days (since you don't have Tracker).


Damn. Supply really jumped at three bases and allowed me to replace/upgrade nearly 500 IJA/IJN Fighter Airframes. NICE!

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Post #: 5382
RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 4:49:55 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

This calculation is not only made at the end of the game wrap-up. It's made every turn. It seems particularly challenging on islands in the late-game for Japan.

How do Japan players balance the need to supply garrisons to keep 75% of the VPs for the base, with pulling supply home to make airplanes?


Late game I helped stave off autovic by resupplying PM and Rabaul very late in the game. It was certainly something I planned and looked at closely.

In addition, I had 10,000 supplies at a few meaningless bases that could be shipped, so I wasn't shipping from Honshu.

Edit: I played all sorts of games with base, device stockpile settings. It was in effect a game within a game, and I learned how the engine allocates supply between base and field. Very important stuff to understand for when the shortages start showing up.

John's decision to not supply his troops in China, is a mistake I think...you need to get supplies to those front lines, but away from other areas and avoid shrinkage. It can be done.

Supply priority was something like: front line troops, fighter builds and replacements, troop rebuilding (afv, art, aa, ija 43 squads only), supply stockpile cities, preventing desertion, vp management.

There is some natural local transfer of resources etc, thru the Fusan straits with local shipping.






Well Lowpe...I am always open and listening to your suggestions. Will allow supplies to build a little more in the Home Islands and then transport some to the mainland.

I've been moving excess supply from various bases to where I want it. Examples right now include Lae, Lunga, Rabaul, and Hollandia. We intend to really fo after his supply lines in a continuous manner.

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Post #: 5383
RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 4:59:47 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		At a very minimum, I would think you would want to keep the troops supplied on the Shanghai front.

I turned off all repairs, all replacements, set all devices to stockpile except for artillery, AA, type 3 med tanks, and IJA 43 squads.

I would rebuild and reinforce only those items.

You get up to a 75% malus for no supply.

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Post #: 5384
RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 5:02:27 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Oops, you might want to see if any of your units take the new improved light tank (normally appears in June 1944 but units don't appear for quite a while).

The motorized SP guns also should be built...not sure when they show up for you.

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Post #: 5385
RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 5:19:26 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		It is only a matter of days prior to the enemy arriving at Shanghai. We're holding on to the base to the west by the skin of our teeth...


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RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 5:37:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

This calculation is not only made at the end of the game wrap-up. It's made every turn. It seems particularly challenging on islands in the late-game for Japan.

How do Japan players balance the need to supply garrisons to keep 75% of the VPs for the base, with pulling supply home to make airplanes?


Late game I helped stave off autovic by resupplying PM and Rabaul very late in the game. It was certainly something I planned and looked at closely.

In addition, I had 10,000 supplies at a few meaningless bases that could be shipped, so I wasn't shipping from Honshu.

Edit: I played all sorts of games with base, device stockpile settings. It was in effect a game within a game, and I learned how the engine allocates supply between base and field. Very important stuff to understand for when the shortages start showing up.

John's decision to not supply his troops in China, is a mistake I think...you need to get supplies to those front lines, but away from other areas and avoid shrinkage. It can be done.

Supply priority was something like: front line troops, fighter builds and replacements, troop rebuilding (afv, art, aa, ija 43 squads only), supply stockpile cities, preventing desertion, vp management.

There is some natural local transfer of resources etc, thru the Fusan straits with local shipping.



I get that, and in a "normal" game 10,000 stashed offshore would be a help to stave off the wolf. But John here has all sorts of bases that a JFB would not still hold in a "normal" game when strat bombing of the HI was underway. In effect, his VP foundations are thin and can be removed in some cases by directed Allied naval bombardment at islands with no defenses except LCUs.

Supply used to build fighters in the HI to defend strat bombing might actually accelerate a loss.

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RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 5:42:09 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		That is interesting Moose.

One of the biggest things I've been able to exploit over the last six months is still maintaining possession of those South Pacific bases. I still have a clear path into his rear without major threat of danger. This is one of the reasons I deployed my I-Boats there. It is to get sinkings AND draw him into this area where a very aggressive Japanese Admiral will be...


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RE: December 1944 - 10/6/2017 10:16:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

That is interesting Moose.

One of the biggest things I've been able to exploit over the last six months is still maintaining possession of those South Pacific bases. I still have a clear path into his rear without major threat of danger. This is one of the reasons I deployed my I-Boats there. It is to get sinkings AND draw him into this area where a very aggressive Japanese Admiral will be...



The I-boats would be offense though. This is defense of your VP stack.

I doubt CR would do this, as he's very methodical about his naval game and not at all stick-and-move, but in the era you're in the Allies could easily form ten or so flying TFs of a CL and 6-7 Fletchers, and go island to island just burning supply for VP denial. It's the easiest VP stock available. No prep, no landing disruption, no LCU combat losses. Just burn out the supplies, reap 75% of the base's VPs ("a VP denied is as good as a VP won"), and move on. 75% of an 80- VP base isn't a lot, but it can add up over several months. And remember, he's going to have underway replenishment of ammo in not too many weeks.

Strat bombing is going to win this one for the Allies, but if it were June 1945 and you were struggling to hold to August 31, 1945 to deny the decisive win possibility under the game design, island supply would be important.

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 1:01:03 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Bullwinkle, the problem with that tactic is that Japan has a whopping 19 carriers left. There are other tactics the Allies could use....

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 5:31:41 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Bullwinkle, the problem with that tactic is that Japan has a whopping 19 carriers left. There are other tactics the Allies could use....


At more risk.

The IJN carriers haven't been a factor in this game for many months. But even if they were, sinking them all would yield 7500-9000 VP. More or less? That's a couple of weeks strat bombing, even at the low rate CR is currently able to achieve without full B-24 involvement.

And CR could fight the carriers and still have surface ships left for an anti-supply campaign. As I said, I don't think he will. But he could. I write this more as a what-if for other players engaged in a more conventional end-game in the summer of 1945. It's a VP mechanism that is not often discussed. Burning supply isn't as sexy as sinking big ships. But a VP is a VP.

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 11:15:53 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

And CR could fight the carriers and still have surface ships left for an anti-supply campaign.
I think john has done more to prosecute the war using the KB to escort fuel and oil back to the home islands. I can't figure out if CR is just not aware, just doesn't care or just doesn't play the late game often but for the life of me I can not understand why thee tankers are running back and forth like the Carnival Cruise Lines. John has pulled back about a million gallons of fuel and oil in the last 6 months in not more and has maybe lost one or two tankers.

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 12:55:08 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Just checked and I have lost a total of 4 tankers over the last 5 months.


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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 3:04:44 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Bullwinkle, the problem with that tactic is that Japan has a whopping 19 carriers left. There are other tactics the Allies could use....


At more risk.

The IJN carriers haven't been a factor in this game for many months. But even if they were, sinking them all would yield 7500-9000 VP. More or less? That's a couple of weeks strat bombing, even at the low rate CR is currently able to achieve without full B-24 involvement.

And CR could fight the carriers and still have surface ships left for an anti-supply campaign. As I said, I don't think he will. But he could. I write this more as a what-if for other players engaged in a more conventional end-game in the summer of 1945. It's a VP mechanism that is not often discussed. Burning supply isn't as sexy as sinking big ships. But a VP is a VP.


We are on the same page, here.

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 4:19:24 PM   
JohnDillworth


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Status: offline 		That is my #1 question when the game is over and we can discuss both AAR’’s Dan does not miss much but you defiantly have him in a blind spot here

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 10/7/2017 8:32:57 PM >

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 4:26:13 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

And CR could fight the carriers and still have surface ships left for an anti-supply campaign.
I think john has done more to prosecute the war using the KB to escort fuel and oil back to the home islands. I can't figure out if CR is just not aware, just doesn't care or just doesn't play the late game often but for the life of me I can not understand why thee tankers are running back and forth like the Carnival Cruise Lines. John has pulled back about a million gallons of fuel and oil in the last 6 months in not more and has maybe lost one or two tankers.


The Carnival Cruise line is helping the Allies to win the war more quickly.

1. It is sub optimum play to focus on moving oil and fuel to Japan whilst allowing the front line to be destroyed.

2. It is Nero fiddling whilst Rome burns to allow Japanese industry to fall within range of an Allied strategic air campaign.

3. It is irrelevant to have heavy industry capable of working at full capacity when it is impossible to build airframes because the aircraft and engine factories have been destroyed. Without air cover all the other industrial facilities which are not directly dependent on fuel/oil will, when damaged/destroyed, both yield plentiful VPs and adversely impact the fighting.

Alfred

4. Fuel and oil reserves are of zero value in VP terms.

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RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 8:37:10 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

4. Fuel and oil reserves are of zero value in VP terms.

Fuel and oil turn into things and supplies. Without fuel and oil no fighters, no devices, no rebuilt units. Agreed the KB could have been better used in a number of places in the past year but now if it goes head to head with the Death Star it will just die. Not to say it could not be put to better use in places but now it's just a numbers game

< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 10/7/2017 10:23:45 PM >

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Post #: 5397
RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 8:53:30 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

And CR could fight the carriers and still have surface ships left for an anti-supply campaign.
I think john has done more to prosecute the war using the KB to escort fuel and oil back to the home islands. I can't figure out if CR is just not aware, just doesn't care or just doesn't play the late game often but for the life of me I can not understand why thee tankers are running back and forth like the Carnival Cruise Lines. John has pulled back about a million gallons of fuel and oil in the last 6 months in not more and has maybe lost one or two tankers.


The Carnival Cruise line is helping the Allies to win the war more quickly.

1. It is sub optimum play to focus on moving oil and fuel to Japan whilst allowing the front line to be destroyed.

2. It is Nero fiddling whilst Rome burns to allow Japanese industry to fall within range of an Allied strategic air campaign.

3. It is irrelevant to have heavy industry capable of working at full capacity when it is impossible to build airframes because the aircraft and engine factories have been destroyed. Without air cover all the other industrial facilities which are not directly dependent on fuel/oil will, when damaged/destroyed, both yield plentiful VPs and adversely impact the fighting.

Alfred

4. Fuel and oil reserves are of zero value in VP terms.


I haven't had engine or aircraft factories damaged at this point. Aircraft production is running full bore presently.


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Post #: 5398
RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 8:54:12 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

4. Fuel and oil reserves are of zero value in VP terms.

Fuel and oil turn into things and supplies. Without fuel and oil no fighters, no devices, no rebuilt units. Agreed he KB could have been better used in a number of places in the past year but now if it goes head to head wit the Death Star it will just die. Not to say it could not be put to better use in places but now it's just a numbers game


Totally concur Sir.


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(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 5399
RE: December 1944 - 10/7/2017 10:09:01 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

4. Fuel and oil reserves are of zero value in VP terms.

Fuel and oil turn into things and supplies. Without fuel and oil no fighters, no devices, no rebuilt units. Agreed he KB could have been better used in a number of places in the past year but now if it goes head to head wit the Death Star it will just die. Not to say it could not be put to better use in places but now it's just a numbers game


I look at this a bit differently.

Yes, it is a numbers game. The relevant numbers, a ratio, are 2:1. An Allied VP gained must be overcome with two Japan VPs gained, for CR to get his auto-vic and win a decisive. Any combo of strategies and tactics that moves farther away from 2:1 ought to at least be considered.

Japan, by the time the Allies begin strat bombing the HI, should be out of the HI generation business. Fuel, at this point, is irrelevant for Japan more or less. Supply is king. Of the ways to generate supply, HI factories and refineries (I think refineries don't generate in this mod though?) are both highly inefficient relative to LI. The opportunity cost Japan paid here to haul hundreds of thousands of points of fuel and oil home was a waste compared to what the IJN could have been doing to slow the Allies advance through the PI and Formosa. Supply should have rested on LI, and it should have been saved. Perhaps some was. But it's also true that not taking all of China in 1942 gives away huge LI production for the mid-war years, supply that can backstop the end-game.

The naval war is over. CR is for sure playing as if he does not care about losses outside the front theater of operations. The war will be decided in the air. And by VPs.

So, if 2:1 is the relevant ratio, why not slam the KB into the USN off the China coast? Seriously. Leyte Gulf was not a bad idea; it just didn't work. Every carrier sunk is worth two IJN carriers sunk. If they sink with their air wings, great. So far CR is using naval air to strat bomb and support strat bombing to an amazing degree. Why? No risk. (KAMIS?!) If the USN is taken off the table, the ratio gets better, the assets supporting the Army bombers go away, or at least have to go ashore, supply ops onto the coast are more dangerous. And there's no downside for Japan, except the emotion inherent in sacrificing the fleet. It's defense time here. Offense left town.

Yes, Japan should produce fighters as long as possible. Should have already stockpiled, but sure, if CR lets the factories live, use them. A destroyed 4E is in effect worth 4 VP. And any fuel Japan did haul home, sure, use it for HI and take the supply dribbles as dessert. But hauling the fuel home at all wasn't the best move. A attrition battle at the PI or Formosa was.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 10/7/2017 10:12:12 PM >

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