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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 11:00:31 AM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		I suppose if we are breaking down the unit might as well swap all their new leaders before you recombine. Weird but a reboot seems in order. Hate to put a front line unit on garrison duty but they are not giving you much choice


< Message edited by JohnDillworth -- 10/8/2017 11:02:17 AM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 12:27:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Here's a look under the hood at what's going on with 5th Marine Div.

Just an interesting oddity. I'll try to get a screenshot during the next combat sequence showing the remarkable decline in AV.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 12:57:30 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		Could just be bad luck. Divide it and you are good in what, 2 weeks if he heals with an HQ.

< Message edited by Wargmr -- 10/8/2017 12:59:40 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 1:41:56 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Very interesting. I haven't seen this specific behavior before, but I have had units underperform from time to time (not enough to fit any pattern).

If the split & recombine work, it'll be good to add to the FAQ as well.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 2:30:46 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		5th Marine Div


A aggressive leader fighting to take woods/rough terrain.
Enemy has lots of vehicles... dug in?


Maybe they need General K. E. Rockey

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Post #: 12455
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 2:47:55 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		You don't have to turn off the devices in the pool, just select the "do not upgrade" for the unit itself.

Part of the problem might be that they are mainly infantry units going up against armor in bad terrain. Try bombing to add disruption and disablements to get a defensive minus in any attack.

But really, you should combine the US cavalry units with the Indian divisions. When the US Cavalry and the Indians combine, they should be unstoppable.

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I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

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Post #: 12456
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 3:31:18 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

5th Marine Div


A aggressive leader fighting to take woods/rough terrain.
Enemy has lots of vehicles... dug in?


Maybe they need General K. E. Rockey

I have a theory - unprovable one way or the other - that sometimes the disabled squads in the unit include the leader, and the combat occurs with some dolt selected by the AI. An indicator for this would be if the unit was performing as expected (it was), then suddenly had a decline in performance that lasted more than one day (it did), followed by a return to expected performance several days and several combats later (as the leader recovered from his wounds/illness).

The infantry vs armour could be part of the issue as Ranger Joe said - I think John likely has Type 3 tanks by now. But in WR terrain the infantry should be able to get in close to the tanks and use their very good anti-armour weapons against them (if the model builds in that much detail).

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 4:29:01 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline 		I concur on the tanks, they can cause a larger amount of disablement than usual.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 4:41:43 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		You are clearing out the infantry and supporting guns.

But firing an anti-tank rocket like a bazooka will definitely give away your position as well the possibility (I don't know if this is modeled precisely or not) of the projectile hitting a tree or bush and detonating too soon. That might just be part of the doubled defense in woods.

Not to mention the fact that if you were to throw a hand grenade in the woods and if it were to hit a branch and bounce back into your lap, it could ruin your whole day.

*edited for spelling!

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 10/8/2017 4:43:18 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 12459
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 10:22:20 PM   
Itdepends

 

Posts: 937
Joined: 12/12/2005
Status: offline 		Could th overstacking in the hex be a contributing factor? The hex has a capacity of 40,000 and you have nearly 60,000 in there.

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Post #: 12460
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 10:55:18 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		To my knowledge, overstacking has no direct negative impact on combat. The only indirect impact would be on supply draw (units without full supply attack or defend at reduced AV).

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Post #: 12461
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/8/2017 11:13:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/24/44

Fancy Pants: Strong daytime raid against Kagoshima sets 160k fires.

Allied army moving towards Shanghai.

Important attack tomorrow in the mysterious hex where good Allied units underperform expectations yet seem certain to eventually achieve victory.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 12:22:21 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

To my knowledge, overstacking has no direct negative impact on combat. The only indirect impact would be on supply draw (units without full supply attack or defend at reduced AV).

It also was eventually clarified that it has direct effects on fatigue and disruption. Not sure about behind the scenes combat penalties but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 2:46:12 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

To my knowledge, overstacking has no direct negative impact on combat. The only indirect impact would be on supply draw (units without full supply attack or defend at reduced AV).

It also was eventually clarified that it has direct effects on fatigue and disruption. Not sure about behind the scenes combat penalties but I wouldn't rule it out completely.


It is not just an increased "static" supply consideration which results from overstacking. Combat in the hex will further magnify the logistical burden. The supply required number is only determined on the recent historical activity, not on the future activity of the unit.


Overstacking a hex produces a random 1-5 increase in fatigue and disruption.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2915927&mpage=1&key=stacking%2Climits

I don't see why the 5th Marines have been singled out for specific mention. All the LCUs in that hex are affected. The Combat Report does not identify the individual impact on each unit. That the threshold for disclosing a fatigue/disruption malus in the Combat Report was not triggered is not in itself evidence that the final adjusted AV was not reflective of the aggregated overstacking impact.

Alfred

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Post #: 12464
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 3:15:57 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Thank you Alfred. You are always a font of wisdom.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 12465
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 4:30:16 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Folks that pop in now and then will have missed the long progression of this discussion. I had observed - not scientifically but casually and with interest - that 5th Marine Div. seems to consistently perform under expectations. This began a month or more back when the division attacked and drove back an enemy stack. Usually, when that happens, the effect on the battered enemy stack snowballs, so that each successive catching and attacking of that stack gets easier and more destructive. But the opposite happened - the battered enemy stack seemed to get more stout and 5th Marine Div. always seemed to underperform. This was in a variety of terrain, usually under stacking limits, and always in stacks that greatly outnumbered the beat up enemy. There could be a million reasons, as there are about as many variables. That's why I wasn't trying to figure it out. It was just something interesting and contrary to what I usually see.


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 12466
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 5:05:32 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I have read the entire AAR, I just started recently. I did not comment much until I caught up entirely. I still do not comment much unless I do know what I am commenting on.

I remember when you posted about the 5th Marine Division and it started in China. But there could also be other factors "under the hood" as far as infantry vs combined arms combats in various terrains.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 12467
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 12:33:29 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

To my knowledge, overstacking has no direct negative impact on combat. The only indirect impact would be on supply draw (units without full supply attack or defend at reduced AV).


I typically see heavier than usual casualties from pure bombardment combats when I am overstacked.

Enemy stacks that typically wouldn't be causing me any casualties to speak of instead cause regular losses every turn as long as I am overstacked.



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Hans


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Post #: 12468
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 3:08:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/23/44

Fancy Pants: Attack west of Hangchow yields poor results. So it's time to address the overstacking situation. One of the divisions departing will be 5th Marines, which will bread down and rebuilt at some point soon.

Allied army advancing on Shanghai in good order.

Death Star again at sea and should rendezvous E of Wenchow tonight.





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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 3:23:15 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Where are your Command HQs and what targets are they prepping for?

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Post #: 12470
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 4:06:26 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Why in the world even fight in that 5th Marines wood rough hex? The path to the east is open with the conquest of Hangchow...

Figure out a way to cut the rail line above Nanking, and go east, young man.






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Post #: 12471
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 10:26:30 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Why in the world even fight in that 5th Marines wood rough hex? The path to the east is open with the conquest of Hangchow...

Figure out a way to cut the rail line above Nanking, and go east, young man.


Like most everything in AE, I didn't set out to do things here the hard way or harder than need be.

5th Marine Division and 5th Indian Division landed at Foochow and, over the course of weeks, pushed an steadily weakening enemy stack far into the interior (though it wasn't easy, as I've noted above). Eventually, they reached the main road linking Shanghai and Changsha. While other units turned left to deal with several key bases, these units turned right to make for Hangchow. They pushed in front of them some beat up enemy units. The road system is rather odd and restrictive. And even when they arrived in this hex, the enemy opposition appeared pretty fragile - big units ready to get torn to pieces.

Rather than back up and go a long way around, I elected to try to shove the battered enemy units out of the way. Knowing that 2nd and 3rd Tank Divisions would be trashed in the doing, it all made sense.

But things have bogged down more than expected now. I think it's 3rd Tank Div. that's giving me fits even while my two 5ths aren't performing as robustly as I keep thinking they should.

So the question seems easy at first blush: Hey, what's 5th Marine Div. doing up here battling in this far-flung hex?

The answer is much more complicated but makes sense, at least to me.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 12472
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 10:30:33 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Where are your Command HQs and what targets are they prepping for?


14th Army HQ is 100% prepped for Canton and located nearby. It'll be within range when the time comes to reduce and attack this key base.

Southeast Asia HQ is at Saigon and 50% prepped for Singapore. It'll be ready when the time comes. (Previously it was 100% prepped for Saigon, and served well in that campaign.)

One of the American command HQs is 100% prepped for Hangchow and is stationed at Ningpo. It's time to figure out a new prep target - probably one of the bases in Korea.

I don't know where the other American command HQs are at the moment. I've lost track of them. It tried to find Southwest Pacific HQ and couldn't. It was destroyed on Sumatra, but I thought I long ago would have rebuilt it. But my filter doesn't show it in the game.



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Post #: 12473
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 10:39:35 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Where are North, Central, and South Pacific HQs? Teamwork them up with Corp/Army HQs should allow to get the big adjusted AV to blow through his major bases.

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Post #: 12474
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/9/2017 11:38:54 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I took a census of the US command HQs.

NoPac is at Dutch Harbor prepped for Bihoro, Hokkaido.
SoPac is at Manila and prepped for Keijo, Korea.
Pacific is at Taichu and prepping for Taichu.
SWPac was destroyed and never rebuilt.


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Post #: 12475
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/10/2017 2:08:23 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I thought that SWPac would have automatically been rebuilt. Did you check to see if you can rebuild it now? If not, then it would be a good idea to have even just one support unit from a HQ somewhere safe.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 12476
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/10/2017 4:27:39 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I thought that SWPac would have automatically been rebuilt. Did you check to see if you can rebuild it now? If not, then it would be a good idea to have even just one support unit from a HQ somewhere safe.

I imagine you can buy it back??

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Post #: 12477
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/10/2017 4:40:18 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		There are only 4 Allied HQs which can't be resurrected.  SouthWest Pacific is not one of them.

Alfred

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Post #: 12478
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/10/2017 4:34:53 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		12/24/44 and 12/25/44

Usually I post for every turn, but yesterday got away from me. A good friend's husband died too young and unexpectedly, so I spent a good bit of the afternoon on her back porch, reminiscing with her and her family.

Fancy Pants: Christmas Eve and Day were fairly uneventful, as Death Star prepared for action. I moved most dive bombers to land, their places taken by fighters. DS is configured mostly, but not completely, for defense.

At Shanghai, my bombardment TFs have functioned without incident (mines, shore guns) and are inflicting decent damage. The air force is also messing up the ground troops better than expected, given the terrain. I think I detect a systemic weakness here. Something is slightly off with John's defenses. Perhaps Shanghai won't be the everlasting, prolonged booger that I had expected. Probing bombardment tomorrow will tell me more.

Lots of things in the works tomorrow: Big and complicated strategic bombing raids vs. Matsuyama - sweeping Corsairs and raiding Avengers and Superforts.

And a key attack in that oddly difficult hex west of Hangchow. Fingers crossed there.

And, beneath it all, a strong feeling that John is prepared to pounce some place or places....and soon.





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Post #: 12479
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 10/10/2017 5:08:05 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have often contemplated a correlation between shore bombardment effectiveness and ship range to target and back to home port.

There is something that tells the Captains how much ammo to use, sometimes it is a quick bombardment, and other times the ships fire almost every round from their forward guns.

Relative strength assessment, range to port for rearming, air power comparisons, dl on the base, size of the runway, forts, troops present (esp cd guns), target priorities at the base, local troops at the base, bombardment versus invasion (this one for sure).

Sorry for your loss.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/10/2017 5:12:59 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 12480
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