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RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/24/2017 8:34:31 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo

They are probably practicing shooting down paratroopers.



All in vain ... Germans no try that anymore after Crete except for special missions ;)


No, I think Neogohobo meant Soviet Paratroopers!!!!!! Lol

_____________________________


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 31
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/24/2017 9:45:37 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo

They are probably practicing shooting down paratroopers.



All in vain ... Germans no try that anymore after Crete except for special missions ;)


No, I think Neogohobo meant Soviet Paratroopers!!!!!! Lol


Stalin gets a lesson from Kim Jong Un .. purge 2.0 ;)

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 32
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/25/2017 8:55:24 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo

They are probably practicing shooting down paratroopers.



All in vain ... Germans no try that anymore after Crete except for special missions ;)


No, I think Neogohobo meant Soviet Paratroopers!!!!!! Lol


Stalin gets a lesson from Kim Jong Un .. purge 2.0 ;)


Perhaps they are a triple use unit - they aim for the paratroops, and if they miss them the aircraft, and if they miss them the ground forces on the downward trajectory. Very smart!

My father's quote from the war "When the Germans bombed we ducked, when the British bombed the Germans ducked, when the Americans bombed everybody ducked."

Soviet team deploy their new u-boat hunters



Soviet team needs to let us know who their team manager is! It can be good if they could let each other know when the others turn wll be finished. At the moment if we had a rough idea when you will be finishing turn 1 we could plan our calendars to be ready for it!

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/15/2019 10:14:24 PM >

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 33
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/25/2017 12:40:38 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 22 June 1941


Turn 1 North
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
At Turn 1 HardLiuckAgain's well documented Pskov defense has me very concerned. It is well thought out in my opinion. One thing in a group game is for the other players to give up on selected units to transfer to their front. That will be very interesting if in fact the plan is to follow HardLuckAgain's recommendations.
My Plan is to create a 'super" 18th Army at the expense of the 16th Army and reach Pskov before the Soviets dig in ..

The plan on turn 1 is simple .. rail units in from the rear to bust the first holes followed by an infantry breakout and the PzXXX rushing as far as possible forward. Model takes I Corps to the Right of 18th Army to maneuver side by side with II Corps 16th Army

As per the enclosed pdf .. things do not go as planned

One change of plan is to ignore Riga .. the unintended consequences worked out for the Germans ..

To see this turn in the AAR made by the North commander themselves see http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4360475

Turn 1 Centre
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke
am afraid does not good; you might lost ukrania and we know that the AI does not counterattak from ukrania if not you wiill also losse BERLIN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
I think it is very important to realize and not shown very well in this picture .. [centre] is executing Turn 1 without the 7th and 20th PzXX’s which are assigned to AGN. Although AGC’s opening is very strong it could have been even stronger with a those resources. The 7th and 20th are in the South part of the forward line .. they do the 4th Army thing (redirection of 4th Army) and move turns 2-3 North in a completely different line of attack.

Given that I am very sure Centre could have put those divisions to better use .. as it is we are threatening Leningrad by crossing the Luga turn 6 ..and the 7th and 20th are primed for the big push!


Turn 1 South

Our southern commander chooses to not cross the line that will unfreeze forces on the Rumanian border next turn - so all units there will remain where they are now until then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenchiSulla
I've got the pockets done, had some bad luck with retreats so it is leaky.

I'm not really thrilled about the result. Created a pocket but it is leaky and the panzers will probably get isolated. I am counting on low Soviet mobility and the fact that the panzer are stocked up with fuel for turn 1. If the Soviets stay and break the pocket I'll have a chance going deep on turn 2.

I'm not going to release 11th Army until turn 3 so ... make sure FBD is ready to start repairing from the south on turn 3 (Ungeny). The plan is to push aggressively for Kiev on turn 2. This, combined with no rail repair in the south might confuse them about my intentions ... It does mean that the area east of Kiev will be a bit of blindspot unless AGC repairs towards it ...

Aim will be to position tanks to rush to the south coast [on turn 3] and trap the Soviet Southern Front ...


Our southern commander also make some interesting command alterations .... ?



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/17/2019 2:25:18 PM >

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Post #: 34
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/25/2017 2:24:58 PM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline 		As Drakken said , we are collectivism. He said it as a joke, I know, but it turns out to be true. We are all the team manager, we are one with the force. We have done our turn, I just need to go over my last turn as Sup. Comm. Although I have been rather busy these days due to my going back home soon. I shall do it by tonight then, and you guys will be available to do your turn at that moment on. I will PM your Team Manager when its done.

PS : We included Wallas as our Air Commander.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 35
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/25/2017 3:12:02 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neogodhobo
PS : We included Wallas as our Air Commander.

Welcome wallas to the game!

Drakken is Soviet Team Manager

I PMed Drakken to let them know they are the Soviet Team Manager. Congratulations and many thanks! All you need to do is make sure when it is your turn the file is always with someone having a go and your turn is completed as quickly as possible, and liaise with SparkleyTits when the turn is likely to be back with the Axis.

We can see from dropbox that the last Soviet go was made on the 23rd of September, but it was not back to the Axis team until the 27th of Septemeber. This meant it was four days with nobody doing anything. If I had not intervened yesterday it is quite probable that it would have been weeks or more before the turn had been sent to us. It will be Drakken's job to make sure this does not happen again.

I know some players are faster than others - I am slow. And having multiple hand-offs will mean there are lots of gaps which will mean it takes longer. Which is why it is critical that these unnecessary times are eliminated. It is about being fair and showing respect to everyone else in the game. I was already getting angry messages in private to me - I could read the acrimony in others building. The Axis team did get one ETA eventually which we got ready for; it came and went and no one from the Soviet team even told us why. And it was doubly unfair if someone changed their plans for it. We did ask several times to the Soviet team about the team manager and about the turn 1 - it felt like talking to a brick wall. We could see that nothing was happening but what was worse was that no one cared. And the consequence of this will mean the game dies. So it cannot wait.

I understand the fun and role play of doing things collectively and for everything IN the game you can do that as you wish - we can laugh at or admire the consequences afterwards. But ABOUT the game we need to be following the same rules - for the rules to change at least eveyone needs to be asked first. The rules up front did say you needed a team manager. Saying everyone is the team manager meant no one was as we just saw. Kissinger asked "When there is a crisis who do I call?" The Axis Team Manager SparkleyTits will be calling Drakken.

I thought it was best to nominate someone to cut the Gordian Knot. The Team Manager's job is necessary, but does not require any knowledge of War in the East whatsoever. I got the sense no one was stepping forward as they were apprehensive as to what it entails - by having someone to do the job you will see it is very simple. You can always change it to be someone else afterwards. As Drakken was nominated to cover for Neogodhobo's absence it seemed to fit in.


< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/15/2019 10:15:00 PM >

(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 36
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/28/2017 3:26:31 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 Air

The Soviet air forces lose nearly 4000 aircraft shown in the air losses screen above. Most are caught by surprise raids on their airfields by the Luftwaffe and Rumanian air forces. But some are overrun on the ground by the Wehrmacht too. However many are the I15 type biplane fighters or their equally antiquated I16 monoplane fighters. The newer aircraft held further to the rear has not been as badly affected.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/17/2019 12:26:49 PM >

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Post #: 37
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/30/2017 2:32:11 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Now for a word from the Fuhrer ...

Our Panzers are "Riding the wind like a bell ..." advances on all fronts deep into Soviet territory
Back to the administrative traffic on this thread ..

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 38
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/30/2017 4:45:00 AM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		We have started processing the Turn. I've given the instructions to the Soviet team.

Keep in mind that I was trusted with being the Team Manager AND the Deputy Supreme Commander while continuing being Central Ground Commander, and I have a busy weekend. All the while really without be consulted whether I was willing to take those roles or not. So we ask for your indulgence.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 39
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/30/2017 6:33:16 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Sounds like my dayjob

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 40
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 9/30/2017 10:13:43 AM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken
We have started processing the Turn. I've given the instructions to the Soviet team.
Keep in mind that I was trusted with being the Team Manager AND the Deputy Supreme Commander while continuing being Central Ground Commander, and I have a busy weekend. All the while really without be consulted whether I was willing to take those roles or not. So we ask for your indulgence.

We have great faith in you Drakken

Turn 1 Rail Repair Option

With Rumania frozen until turn 3, there is a radical option to bring all four FBDs north to extend our priority rail repair routes there a few more hexes. The FBD from the south will only be able to repair one hex before having to be loaded on rail again to make it to the Rumanian border to repair from there on turn 3.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/17/2019 2:06:42 PM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 41
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 6:54:11 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Any thoughts on the turn? Just so I can plan when I need to side aside time.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 42
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 7:21:23 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken

We have started processing the Turn. I've given the instructions to the Soviet team.

Keep in mind that I was trusted with being the Team Manager AND the Deputy Supreme Commander while continuing being Central Ground Commander, and I have a busy weekend. All the while really without be consulted whether I was willing to take those roles or not. So we ask for your indulgence.


Oh my, you have your hands full Sir. No Supreme Commander yet for over there?

_____________________________


(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 43
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/2/2017 7:30:42 PM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		In Soviet Russia, turn drops you. We are a model of proletarian efficiency for all the world to see.

Soviets is done. File is in the Dropbox.


< Message edited by Drakken -- 10/2/2017 7:32:52 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 44
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/3/2017 3:28:21 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		And our faith was vindicated - all praise Drakken!

Consultation is a bourgeois concept not befitting of socialist man.

Turn 1 Rail Repair

In the end however the south FBD remained to repair a few hexes behind 6th army. Only three FBDs were used north of the Pripyat to repair rail.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/17/2019 1:48:03 PM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 45
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/8/2017 2:00:00 AM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		We have received T3 for the Soviets, unfortunately I am away from my computer tonight and tomorrow.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 46
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/8/2017 2:25:51 AM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken

We have received T3 for the Soviets, unfortunately I am away from my computer tonight and tomorrow.



Ok thank you for the heads up! So maybe Wednesday for a turn?

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 47
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/8/2017 6:41:53 AM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken

We have received T3 for the Soviets, unfortunately I am away from my computer tonight and tomorrow.



Ok thank you for the heads up! So maybe Wednesday for a turn?


I came in a bit earlier tonight, so I have submitted my orders for wallas to begin the turn.

As I am Centre, however, it'll wait for tomorrow evening or Monday during the day.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 48
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/8/2017 3:00:38 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakken

We have received T3 for the Soviets, unfortunately I am away from my computer tonight and tomorrow.



Ok thank you for the heads up! So maybe Wednesday for a turn?


I came in a bit earlier tonight, so I have submitted my orders for wallas to begin the turn.

As I am Centre, however, it'll wait for tomorrow evening or Monday during the day.




Sounds good! Very helpful feedback as it helps plan for when to dedicate time to the game. Thank you again for the heads up!

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 49
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 2:48:56 PM   
Psych0


Posts: 212
Joined: 8/6/2017
Status: offline 		A bit of a stink in the other multiplayer thread about people seeing each other's thread. How should we handle that for our game I wonder? Sure the rules say; "don't" but is that really the best way to manage this eventuality?

If we continue with 'secret' threads per team, what if we see someone from the other team in it? Penalties? Start using code books? Purposefully post misinformation? Degrade it to meaningless information and have something else in parallel?

Or do we just have any secret comms done via group email / drop box and forget about the team specific threads?

Interested in your thoughts. And good to create clarity and common understanding for ourselves in case this happens to our game.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 50
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 3:26:55 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Psych0

A bit of a stink in the other multiplayer thread about people seeing each other's thread. How should we handle that for our game I wonder? Sure the rules say; "don't" but is that really the best way to manage this eventuality?

If we continue with 'secret' threads per team, what if we see someone from the other team in it? Penalties? Start using code books? Purposefully post misinformation? Degrade it to meaningless information and have something else in parallel?

Or do we just have any secret comms done via group email / drop box and forget about the team specific threads?

Interested in your thoughts. And good to create clarity and common understanding for ourselves in case this happens to our game.


If I might describe a thought for one wargaming value system. Playing a wargame such as WITE takes a degree of trust. It is sort of a marriage. One invest a lot of their time and effort with an opponent stating "yes I will be there till the end" and turn 7 Leningrad falls (an exaggeration for sure ;) )and they quit. Beyond that, it is possible to be gamey, or do things to take advantage of the system at the expense of your opponent. I will not elaborate but there are lots of gamey things to do in WITE. So, one has to have a degree of trust in ones opponent and for some of us, we really plan to stick out a 3-4 year relationship in a game. When that is violated we get pretty hurt.
That said, So as far as going into the private Axis area, I have no qualms. All my strategic discussions have been PM, Email, and I have an AAR in the dropbox. (which will go live for the Soviets to see turn 5 -- 5 turns behind).

One thing I really would like to happen and that all sides 1) enjoy the game and 2) because this game is soooo complex learn from each other. If (1) is not met people will quit and the game is over if (2) is not met people will get frustrated first, and then they will quit .. game over.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Psych0)
Post #: 51
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/9/2017 5:10:27 PM   
Psych0


Posts: 212
Joined: 8/6/2017
Status: offline 		That's a great philosophy Crackles! Thanks for that wise contribution.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 52
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/10/2017 9:47:22 PM   
wallas

 

Posts: 219
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline 		Crackaces I look forward to your AAR in the dropbox. (which will go live for the Soviets to see turn 5 -- 5 turns behind).


Soviet Air Commander


< Message edited by wallas -- 10/10/2017 9:56:50 PM >

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Post #: 53
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/10/2017 11:07:44 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wallas

Crackaces I look forward to your AAR in the dropbox. (which will go live for the Soviets to see turn 5 -- 5 turns behind).


Soviet Air Commander



I will move it from the Dropbox that has been communicating a plan with my peers to a thread. It should garner some activity ;)
It will be interesting to see how my bridgehead across lake Pskov develops .. I really don’t know yet what I want to do!

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to wallas)
Post #: 54
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/11/2017 12:47:23 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Soviet team get their anti aircraft guns ready




reminds me of a Story from a german "Schlachtflieger" or ground attack aircraft Pilot about the eastern front.

he said that in France, everytime the French soldiers saw a german airplane straffing their Position they duck and went behind cover and let the AA handle the situation. however, the russian soldiers lay down and started Shooting with all they got. he made a joke about russian officers who would even throw their horseshoes after the german pilots only if they could get them off the horses fast enough.:)


< Message edited by bigbaba -- 10/11/2017 12:49:09 AM >

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 55
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/13/2017 2:52:47 AM   
WingedIncubus


Posts: 512
Joined: 10/3/2007
Status: offline 		Axis turn is ready and in the Dropbox.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 56
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/14/2017 1:47:49 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Drakken, many thanks again!

Just thought you would like to see how we are doing in time turn around terms as compared to the other team game

Turn 2 - EightMP 15days 2by3+ 6days
Turn 3 - EightMP 15days 2by3+ 11days

So basically for a team game this is on steroids! So congrats to all but especially for Drakken and SparkleyTits for coping with us!

I know it can be frustrating if you are used to the pace of a solo game. It is not that people are slow, it is just all those gaps in between. But I know the Soviet team have never let the game just be forgotten and I am finding it fun seeing the Soviet gos appear. So a particular thank you for Drakken!

Was surprised to see one for evac - I assume industry evac. Looks like a good idea if so to do something just for that. But I guess you can reveal all after the game has finished!

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/15/2019 10:16:08 PM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 57
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/18/2017 3:31:30 PM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline 		Alright Im back.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 58
RE: 2x3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/18/2017 3:45:33 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline 		Welcome back!

Are you ready to surrender to the might of the Axis yet?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 7/15/2019 10:16:25 PM >

(in reply to Neogodhobo)
Post #: 59
RE: 2by3+ Person Team Game - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES - 10/18/2017 4:02:57 PM   
Neogodhobo


Posts: 502
Joined: 8/17/2017
Status: offline 		Im ready to make sure that Germany never surrenders, but rather, collapse, yes.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 60
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