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Berlin + Holocaust Survivor Talk - 10/26/2017 6:10:01 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
Status: offline 		I’ve recently spent a few days in Berlin. I’ve never visited this city before but went there with the warspite family to help my little warspite with her history studies at school.

We had four full days there and to be honest I thought that would be more than enough…….. wrong! We came away with at least half a dozen things on the list still to do. Seriously, if you have any interest in history generally, World War II or the Cold War in particular, or indeed cult traffic crossing aids(!) then I can’t recommend this as a destination too highly.

For obvious reasons, there is not that much still standing post 1945, and sadly the East German Government destroyed much that did survive. No matter, in Berlin one can almost touch and taste the history – and what has survived has been preserved for all the right reasons.

I will attach some photos in the coming days – as and when I sort through them to hopefully give a flavour of just what an incredible experience spending time in this city can be. If only we’d had a couple more days…….


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/2/2017 7:11:16 AM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805


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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 6:28:39 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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Status: offline 		The Reichstag

First up, one of perhaps the two most iconic symbols of Berlin, its the Reichstag, located near to the Brandenburg Gate.

To the right is a picture taken in 1945. I think it's fair to say that the building was not looking at its best by then. Perhaps could do with a bit of a vacuum.....

Just about everything in every attraction is written in English and German - and the visitor is also provided with audio guides that really add to the experience. This is true of the Reichstag building.

More to follow at the end of the thread - when I will be showing the building at night.





The Reichstag building from a bit further out to give a better impression of the imposing, Norman Foster-designed, glass dome.



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 7:55:27 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 6:41:24 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Next up its the:

Berlin Victory Column

This structure celebrates the three main victorious Prussian wars just before unification:

Danish-Prussian War (1864)
Austrian- Prussian War (1866)
Franco-Prussian War (1870-71)




Victoria at the top



Its over 200ft tall and you have to climb a circular staircase of just under 300(?) stairs - but it seems like more!!!



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 7:56:12 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 6:58:57 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Berlin Victory Column (cont)

Surrounding the column are three statues of the main architects of Prussian victory - military and diplomatic - at that time:

Otto von Bismarck (Chancellor)



Albrecht von Roon (Minister of War)





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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 7:07:53 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:09:02 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		Last but not least of the triumverate:

Helmuth von Moltke (Field Marshal)



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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:19:11 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
Status: offline 		Cold War Stuff - Watchtower

One thing that it would have been good to preserve is a section of Berlin Wall plus the no-mans land and all that went with it. Parts of the wall remain intact, but its largely left to pictures to piece together what the wall really contained and how it was set out. The next few posts looks at the wall, but first we stumbled upon an old East German watchtower. There were two vertical ladders that led to the top and I am sorry to say my fear of heights stopped me from scaling this one. But my elder little warspite managed it, putting her old dad to shame.



Oh well, at least I got to hold an AK-47 - I didn't realise how heavy it would be though



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 7:57:55 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:23:16 PM   
76mm


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Status: offline 		hmmm, during the summer I ride my bike right by all of those places on the way to work. Living here, I am less than thrilled by the place...

(in reply to warspite1)
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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:30:26 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

hmmm, during the summer I ride my bike right by all of those places on the way to work. Living here, I am less than thrilled by the place...
warspite1

Fair enough, each to their own.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:31:05 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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Status: offline 		The Berlin Wall

Staying with the Cold War and the wall, there is a museum dedicated to the DDR (funny how countries with Democratic in the title are usually the ones that are anything but ). There is a model of a cross section of the wall which shows effectively two walls - one being the Anti-Fascist Protection Wall - separated by a no mans land with watchtowers and assorted stuff designed to impede a would-be defector's progress....permanently..




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 9:05:25 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:39:06 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Back to the Wall in a second, but staying on the DDR theme....

The DDR Museum

As the name suggests this museum is filled with the history of that unfortunate aberration and what life was like for those that happened to be that side of the divide post-1945.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 7:41:01 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 10
RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:45:32 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		The DDR Museum - The Trabant

And no story of the DDR could be complete without mention of this technical marvel .....no cooing system and no petrol gauge....










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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 7:46:33 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:49:18 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

hmmm, during the summer I ride my bike right by all of those places on the way to work. Living here, I am less than thrilled by the place...

Likewise, I am unimpressed by Philadelphia's historic district.

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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:50:56 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Berlin Victory Column (cont)
[
Albrecht von Roon (Minister of War)




So that's why there's a German armored cruiser Roon in WWI.

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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:55:15 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Berlin Victory Column (cont)
[
Albrecht von Roon (Minister of War)




So that's why there's a German armored cruiser Roon in WWI.
warspite1

Indeed, a number of armoured cruisers were named after politicians and military men - of which Roon (launched 1903 and stricken 1920) was one. Thank-you for making me look that up in Conways - I never knew


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 7:57:37 PM   
warspite1


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From: England
Status: offline 		The Berlin Wall (Cont)

I hope what I want to achieve works. I want to show a section of current road with a picture of how it looked post 1961. The road in question is rather important and will be the next topic of interest (although there will be one final section on the wall later).

The picture on the right is of the Wall (with the second wall on the left and no man's land in the middle - complete with guard tower). The picture on the left is how this road is today (with the wall on the right) and one is looking away from the buildings in the right-hand picture. The middle picture shows the two buildings that appear on the right, but are the opposite way around as the direction the camera is pointing is the opposite. I hope that makes sense





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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 7:59:59 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 8:22:45 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

hmmm, during the summer I ride my bike right by all of those places on the way to work. Living here, I am less than thrilled by the place...

Likewise, I am unimpressed by Philadelphia's historic district.


Me too. Living there for years, it's kind of ....meh when you see it almost every day.

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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 8:25:20 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Why is this road so interesting? What is 'special' about it?

A clue is that the "Topography of Terrors" museum is housed here. Behind the wall was Prinz Albrecht-Strasse....the home of the SS and the Gestapo.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 8:31:54 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 8:38:03 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		Topographie des Terrors - Prinz Albrecht-Strasse

I mentioned earlier that the East German Government decided to destroy a lot of what was in their zone of Berlin. This included the buildings - or perhaps I should say - the remains of the buildings on this street. But the foundations remain as do the walls of the basement. One can understand the wish to remove these vestiges of Nazism to an extent, but at the same time I think it is a great shame from an historical perspective.

The evil that was carried on here is simply difficult to fathom (we will come to Sachsenhausen and Wannsee later). The thought that the likes of Himmler, Heydrich and other high-ranking Nazi pond life, once walked through these streets and worked in the buildings that stood on this site is quite chilling. This was where they went about their daily business......terror.

Under the glass roof structure is all that remains of No.8 Prinz Albrecht-Strasse....




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 8:48:14 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 8:52:39 PM   
operating


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Status: offline 		I mean it, I really enjoyed the pictures and narrative...

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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 8:53:24 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: operating

I mean it, I really enjoyed the pictures and narrative...
warspite1

Thanks operating - there is plenty more to come


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 9:17:04 PM   
warspite1


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Status: offline 		8 Prinz Albrecht-Strasse (cont)

The home of the Gestapo and the other terror organisations of the Nazi state in its heyday - it wasn't always home to the Hitler's henchmen. Sorry about the water effect - I forgot to wipe this one before taking the picture




The East Germans blow up the facade of the building - and the rest of it - in 1956




Allied bombing saw to it that there was not that much left to destroy anyway...



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 8:01:38 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 9:27:54 PM   
Zorch

 

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Status: offline 		Albert Speer probably would have demolished it anyway, to build Hitler's fantasy Berlin.

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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 9:41:13 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		Topographie des Terrors

The museum's exhibition is very well laid out. There is nothing that one wouldn't expect to find here. Pictures and text are interspersed with audio material and charts the 'progress' of Hitler's various terror organisations from the SA to the SS.

As for the audio, I must confess that just a couple of minutes of listening to Himmler and I wasn't shocked, I wasn't outraged, I was just.....bored. This man spoke as he looked - a dull, little man in every sense of the word who clearly felt the need to compensate for something.....

One picture in the exhibition though did make me really angry. It wasn't of the after effects of Kristalnacht or the death camp victims or any of the other 'usual' pictures that accompany this terrible story. No, the one that got me is shown below. I don't know what it was - maybe its the fact they appear not to have a care in the world, but I suspect the fact that most of those in the picture are "women" is what really angers and depresses me....

It was taken in 1944. The women in the picture are SS female auxiliaries (SS Maids) and together with men from the SS they are taking a break from murder on an industrial scale and are 'holidaying' and Sola-Hutte, a retreat 30km south of Auschwitz. The guy in the centre is the adjutant to the camp commandant.


War is hell - but it's so important to be happy at work, yes?



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 8:03:53 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 9:57:33 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		The Brandenburg Gate

If the Reichstag is one of the most iconic buildings in Berlin, then surely the Brandenburg Gate is equal in stature if not more so?

This is the last of Berlin's city gates and lies at the head of one of Berlin's most famous streets; the Unter Den Linden.

The Gate was caught in the no-man's land of the Berlin Wall after 1961 but survived and has been restored after much damage was inflicted in WWII.


Impressive by day - this gate is even more spectacular during the night.









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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 8:04:27 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 10:17:04 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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Status: offline 		Checkpoint Charlie - then and now




As it was at the height of the Cold War.....



....and today and a couple of dodgy looking "US Army personnel".....



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/26/2017 10:21:48 PM >

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 10:28:23 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		Burning of the Books

Back to the Nazis once more now, and the infamous burning of books episode.

A wise man once said something to the effect that a people that burns books will end up burning its people (quote below).




In this square of the Humboldt University, such a shameful episode took place. There is a monument in the square which at first looks like a piece of glass. When you look through the glass you see nothing but empty bookshelves..... clever.




The Humboldt University square on the Unter Den Linden



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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/4/2017 3:48:35 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 10:37:22 PM   
Aurelian

 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for sharing. I never knew you had a white rectangle for a face :)

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RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 10:43:43 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

Thanks for sharing. I never knew you had a white rectangle for a face :)
warspite1

Yes, it really helps when playing poker .


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 28
RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 10:49:22 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Berlin Cathedral

The cathedral is very impressive - although frankly could do with a damn good clean.....

I wanted a nice central picture, but can you spot the problem with taking a picture at that angle?


Whoops!




That's better - although not as good as head on






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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 8:05:46 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 29
RE: Berlin - 10/26/2017 11:01:01 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline 		The scars of war

This old building is ravaged with hits from small arms fire and shrapnel. This seems to be actually quite a rare sight (certainly in the areas I saw) as there are so few older buildings left standing.




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< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/27/2017 8:06:13 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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