Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Depends. Battle Academy, it is basically Chess.

Ah dang, you just took out my queen!

For those that think Battle Academy is simple, "oh really, what is your win-loss record?"

I like Gary's big immense War in the East/West product, and yeah, I printed out the manual in nice colour. But it is sure a mouthful.

I want something like AHs The Longest Day. Big board, 10k counters, and brain-dead simple rules design. It's not about mastering the design, it's just about shoving around 1000 counters or so every turn.

I recall board games went to computer aided creations, and poof, they seemed to over extend themselves.
I've yet to find much in the way of board games able to equal the simplicity of Bliztkrieg or Panzer Leader or the FIRST box of Squad Leader.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

One point I don't think we can accept sales to acceptance. I own all of of the Panzer Corps series, why they were on sale and I bought them at like 40 or 50% off and i MIGHT play them one day (never do).

quote:

ORIGINAL: RodyMetal

Mrs. Wargamer, you always mentions BA, and because of you I start to play it again and got hooked, it is my favorite WW2 tactical game now, I stopped playing Combat Mission and Graviteam games, really the desing is simple but yet is very rewarding once you win a scenario it gives satisfaction that no other tactical game gives, I dont know what is the secret behind it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Here's a thought. If we had embraced the casual disdain for anything 'beer and pretzels" then, like we do today, 'then' would likely have never happened, and there likely would be no 'today' in wargaming.

I say, just STFU with disdain for the concept of 'beer and pretzels'. Stop even using the expression. It makes you look stupid. The phrase means nothing, to begin with. So what you can't imagine drinking beer and eating pretzels with your bloated overly complicated needlessly detailed monstrosity of a design.

Beer and pretzels is not an intelligent term. It's not a useful descriptive. Every time I see the term in a review of a wargame, I tend to doubt the value of the review as a whole. It diminishes the merits of the opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Quote Matti "You should also try SPWAW or WinSPWW2"

Actually, I've been with Steel Panthers since it was created, been with Matrix Games since 2000 and have been playing the SP Camo versions for almost as long. My favourite is SP3 Brigade Combat. Always thought it felt like Panzer Leader.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ezz

One of the things I don't like about Order of battle, is how long each scenario takes to play. These are LONG games for what is a pretty simple game.
Can be two hours or more in before realising all the choices made at the beginning were wrong and having to start over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude

I’m going to throw out A hypothesis that I have been thinking about for the past couple of weeks. That is is there a dichotomy of games where they are either too simplistic or way too complicated. And that we are moving to an area where boardgames went where intermediate level games were lost.

So the first part of my premise too complicated. I recently got into Command and frankly I almost have to dedicate all of my time to the game to figuring out the interface and all of the different aspects associated with it. I recently downloaded the upgrade to War in the East and when I pulled it up just try to play it for a little bit I realized I had forgotten simple things like the artillery rules let alone the Logistics and gave up! So I got the hard copy of war in the west manual and that is essentially a college textbook on Logistics. So of the Myriad of games that I have on my computer right now I’m just dedicating all of my time to command but I’m so hopelessly behind most of the other people on the board I don’t think I will ever catch up in the learning curve. Now the thing about this is why should I spend money on other games when I’ve got this one game I can spend a year trying to learn to nuances of and never understand and even if I do then I could just move onto War in the East/West and get my Masters in Logistics.

Then the other side of the coin I have panzer general on my computer and it’s just too simplistic I just can’t get into that game. I downloaded the demo of order of battle and to me it’s just another version of panzer general. I mean beer and pretzels is fun but you really don’t get the wealth of a simulation out of it.

I’m hoping TAOW IV will be that Intermediate complexity game that doesn’t bog you down in details but isn’t simplistic either (BTW I was a scenario designer for earlier versions of the game) but again not sure about shelling out the money for another computer icon.

So my question is are current trends bad for the computer war game game industry? Shrapnel and JTS haven’t come out with anything recently and it seems to be bogging down like board wargames had in the 90s. Can designers make it in this environment? Can’t the A/I. Better handle Logistics. Which, BTW is why I never bought the new version of WitP As I really don’t want to take on the training of an entire carrier wing while managing the entire war in the Pacific.

So I’m really hoping to start a thoughtful discussion here not a let’s slam The poster bash session but in any case, “you may fire when ready, Gridley!”

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805