(Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR

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(Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 5:15:38 PM

dhhd

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I'm absolutely baffled. The manual is no help, and I haven't been able to find anything explaining the situation online. At some point in the spring of 1942, some HQ units (without moving, that had previously been providing supply 8) suddenly had their supply drop by 2 or 3 points. Some have been restored, but I only have one HQ providing 8 points. There is no visible difference on the map (eg hexes do not look different) between squares where the HQ's supply potential dropped and never restored, and those where it is back up to 7 (still not really enough for offensive operations) or the one where it is 8. As I noted, none of these HQs moved - it is not that they are too far ahead from railheads.

I thought perhaps this was an issue relating to time of year - one of the strategy guides, I believe, states that weather is bad until about June - but the current turn is July 5, 1942 and there are still HQs providing only 5 or 6 points of supply. There are no partisan problems - I've basically covered conquered areas with garrison units.

I have no idea what is going on and am extremely frustrated. Can anyone show me what I'm doing wrong, or what is happening?

< Message edited by dhhd -- 11/11/2017 5:25:37 PM >

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 9:16:11 PM

Hubert Cater

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Hi Dhhd,

Can you provide a couple of screenshots so we can get a better idea?

One with your current positions showing the units, and then the same location with the units hidden would help to paint a better picture of your situation.

Hiding units can be done with the H key on your keyboard.

Screenshots can be taken with the F12 key in game and will be saved to the following folder:

C:\Users\<username>\Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWII - War In Europe\Screenshots

Hubert

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 9:46:03 PM

dhhd

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I had to resize them and cut out part of the picture to make the 200kb limit.

1. Northern bit of the front, supply and units shown.

Unfortunately, I don't have any saves from when the supply situation was better. However, most of the HQs have not moved from then.

Attachment (1)

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 9:48:20 PM

dhhd

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2. Same location, roughly, no units.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 9:50:49 PM

dhhd

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3. Southern side of front, supply and units shown. This is where the problem is most severe, and none of these HQs have been moved since the period (late '41?) when HQs were all giving 8 supply.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 9:52:03 PM

dhhd

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4. Same as last, but no supply or units shown.

Attachment (1)

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/11/2017 10:54:48 PM

sPzAbt653

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I can't tell anything by those screenshots. For future reference you can reduce the jpg size while saving as opposed to making the screen shot smaller, which often works better.
If you hadn't seen this thread, take a look and maybe it will help you. Some screen shots with explanations start at Post #5.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4363373

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/12/2017 8:59:03 AM

OxfordGuy3

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Could partisan activity be the culprit?

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/13/2017 1:52:27 PM

Hubert Cater

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I'm having a hard time seeing the details from the screenshots as well, i.e. the resource strength numbers and so on... any chance you could retry as sPzAbt653 suggests?

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/13/2017 10:49:21 PM

dhhd

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OK, second attempt. Here's the situation in the south, supply and units shown.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/13/2017 10:53:14 PM

dhhd

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Same, without supply and units. What is baffling to mere here is that I can't tell what I am doing differently, or what conditions are different, from the point where each HQ was reliably 8 supply as long as I kept it a couple hexes away from an intact railhead.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/13/2017 10:59:35 PM

dhhd

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Here's the north, supply and units shown. On the left is Rommel's HQ, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why his HQ is getting 8 and nobody else is - I'm using his HQ the same as any other; trying to keep it within 2 squares or so of an intact railhead.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/13/2017 11:00:01 PM

dhhd

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And here's the same, no units or supply.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/13/2017 11:34:44 PM

sPzAbt653

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Are all of these HQ's at full strength [10] ?

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 12:25:16 AM

dhhd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Are all of these HQ's at full strength [10] ?

And that would appear to have been the problem. Chalk one down for "me being dumb" and there not being something wrong with the game, etc. Thanks!

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 8:39:25 AM

sPzAbt653

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Thanks for the better screen shots, which helped to isolate the issue. It's not about being dumb, it takes a while to get a lot of this stuff to become automatic at a glance. Wait until you get into chaining HQ's ... that makes us all feel dumb !

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 9:53:07 AM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Thanks for the better screen shots, which helped to isolate the issue. It's not about being dumb, it takes a while to get a lot of this stuff to become automatic at a glance. Wait until you get into chaining HQ's ... that makes us all feel dumb !

Especially in North Africa, where you also have to try to anticipate how Malta might affect supply and/or allied bombardment of your supply sources...

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 12:47:02 PM

OxfordGuy3

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BTW regarding chaining HQs, the important thing to remember is that an HQ can only act as an onward link to another HQ in an HQ supply chain if it already has a "natural" supply of 3.

I wish a HQ that is chained to another HQ could receive up to 5 supply (think it's capped to 4 currently), so it could at least upgrade or operate (would still only produce 8 supply for other units, like now and have -1AP).

< Message edited by OxfordGuy3 -- 11/15/2017 1:25:16 PM >

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 5:56:25 PM

sPzAbt653

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I think that is wrong ? An HQ must be at 5 to chain, and then it will have 8, and then it can chain another HQ up to 5 hexes away and that HQ will be at 5 and eligible to Operate.

It changes quite often, but the way it is now I don't really like. I would rather see the HQ that is the chain-ee have its Supply Level read as 8[8], 7[8], 6[8], 5[8], 4[8], 3[8], 2[5], 1[5], 0[5] as it gets further from the chain-er. This would make it easier for me to tell what is going on. As it is now, there are often many HQ's that display 5[8] and it is completely unclear what is going on

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 9:23:10 PM

OxfordGuy3

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No, in 1.10 you only need 3 supply to chain

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/15/2017 11:57:37 PM

sPzAbt653

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Ok thanks. I am moving thru the Mid-East and will see how it works out. I hadn't actually tried the 3, I had been leaving an HQ on a 5 resource and linking from it.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/16/2017 3:52:12 PM

sPzAbt653

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Ok, I set up a test and as you said, an HQ will be able to link if it is at 3 [not 5 as I said]. However, I would expect the linked HQ [in the screen shot, the 7.Army HQ] to drop to 2[5] when it hits the 2 spot [6 hexes from the 15.Army HQ], but it stays at 5[8] even into the 1 spot [7 hexes away], and only hits 0[5] at the 0 spot. However ... that is the way the rule reads so it is working as intended. Not sure that I agree though. Seems too generous ?

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/16/2017 8:15:37 PM

Hubert Cater

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

BTW regarding chaining HQs, the important thing to remember is that an HQ can only act as an onward link to another HQ in an HQ supply chain if it already has a "natural" supply of 3.

I wish a HQ that is chained to another HQ could receive up to 5 supply (think it's capped to 4 currently), so it could at least upgrade or operate (would still only produce 8 supply for other units, like now and have -1AP).

The current Beta has this change in place:

- HQ supply rule recap and amendments since the first major changes introduced in v1.04 are as follows:
- HQ distribution supply has been changed to the following:
- HQ supply < 3 will have a distribution supply value of 5.
- HQ supply >= 3 and <= 5 will have a distribution supply value of 8.
- HQ supply > 5 will have a distribution supply value of 10.
- HQs can now only be linked if the first HQ has a supply value >= 3.
- the HQ to be linked must have a supply value < 5 and is now automatically boosted to a supply value of 5 which caps its distribution supply at 8.
- this doesn't change distribution supply for HQs that were at 3 or 4 supply, but will allow them to 'operate' and 'upgrade'.
- Previously linked HQs could have a maximum distribution supply level of 10.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/16/2017 8:23:39 PM

Hubert Cater

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Ok, I set up a test and as you said, an HQ will be able to link if it is at 3 [not 5 as I said]. However, I would expect the linked HQ [in the screen shot, the 7.Army HQ] to drop to 2[5] when it hits the 2 spot [6 hexes from the 15.Army HQ], but it stays at 5[8] even into the 1 spot [7 hexes away], and only hits 0[5] at the 0 spot. However ... that is the way the rule reads so it is working as intended. Not sure that I agree though. Seems too generous ?

It's hard to know for sure without knowing exactly which 2 spot, 1 spot or 0 spot you are referring to, but if it is a 2 spot based on the 15. Army supply then 5[8] would be correct as the HQ is linked and a 2[5] would be what the regular supply would be without linking.

If I am misunderstanding, don't hesitate to clarify!

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/17/2017 1:46:21 AM

sPzAbt653

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Hi Hubert, here is a shot with the native supply, before any HQ's are in the area. I added in the 'spot' #'s for when the 15.Army HQ appears later [in the blue circled hex], with the 2, 1, and 0 spots highlighted in red. Note that the supply from Perm is not an issue as it hits 0 at the same 0 spot as the 15.Army HQ [when it is placed in the blue circle].

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< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 11/17/2017 1:57:51 AM >

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/17/2017 1:48:53 AM

sPzAbt653

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Here is the 7.Army when it hits the 2 spot. It is still at 5[8], and remains at 5[8] even in the 1 spot [not shown]. It goes to 0[5] when it reaches the 0 spot [referring to the 'spots' that I highlighted in the previous post].
I have a save from this if you want it.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 11/17/2017 1:59:26 AM >

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/17/2017 1:52:40 AM

sPzAbt653

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And, I am sure that you saw it, but I think it is worth repeating:

I would rather see the HQ that is the chain-ee have its Supply Level read as 8[8], 7[8], 6[8], 5[8], 4[8], 3[8], 2[5], 1[5], 0[5] as it gets further from the chain-er. This would make it easier for me to tell what is going on. As it is now, there are often many HQ's that display 5[8] and it is completely unclear what is going on.

When it remains at 5[8] the whole time it makes for a lot of counting hexes while playing.

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/17/2017 8:08:04 AM

OxfordGuy3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

And, I am sure that you saw it, but I think it is worth repeating:

I would rather see the HQ that is the chain-ee have its Supply Level read as 8[8], 7[8], 6[8], 5[8], 4[8], 3[8], 2[5], 1[5], 0[5] as it gets further from the chain-er. This would make it easier for me to tell what is going on. As it is now, there are often many HQ's that display 5[8] and it is completely unclear what is going on.

When it remains at 5[8] the whole time it makes for a lot of counting hexes while playing.

I never see my chainee HQs going more than 4[8], assuming no more than 4 supply from another source

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/17/2017 5:42:16 PM

Hubert Cater

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Hi Hubert, here is a shot with the native supply, before any HQ's are in the area. I added in the 'spot' #'s for when the 15.Army HQ appears later [in the blue circled hex], with the 2, 1, and 0 spots highlighted in red. Note that the supply from Perm is not an issue as it hits 0 at the same 0 spot as the 15.Army HQ [when it is placed in the blue circle].

Thanks for the screenshots and the extra info and as far as I can tell everything looks correct.

1) For example, from the blue circle, HQ 15 Army qualifies to link to other HQs to provide extra supply, i.e. it has a supply of >= 3 which corresponds to this rule below:

- HQs can now only be linked if the first HQ has a supply value >= 3.

2) HQ 7 Army at spot 2 qualifies to be linked to HQ 15 Army as it has a supply value < 3. This corresponds to the rule below:

- the HQ to be linked must have a supply value < 3 and is now automatically boosted to a supply value of 5 which caps its distribution supply at 8.

Under the new Beta this rule has been changed to the following so that it will allow any HQ < 5 to now be able to Operate etc. because it will be boosted to 5:

- the HQ to be linked must have a supply value < 5 and is now automatically boosted to a supply value of 5 which caps its distribution supply at 8.

The main reason we previously had it < 3 was that if it was >= 3 and <= 5 its distribution supply would be at 8, so no reason to link it at > 3, but we did miss the fact that those at 4 were in a bit of lost zone as they couldn't be linked but then also couldn't get the benefit of Operating wheras those that were linked at < 3 now could.

It's a bit convoluted but hopefully that makes sense.

3) The same then applies to the 1 spot as well

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RE: (Newbie?) Supply woes in USSR - 11/17/2017 5:44:16 PM

Hubert Cater

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Here is the 7.Army when it hits the 2 spot. It is still at 5[8], and remains at 5[8] even in the 1 spot [not shown]. It goes to 0[5] when it reaches the 0 spot [referring to the 'spots' that I highlighted in the previous post].
I have a save from this if you want it.

The reason the HQ 7 at the 0 spot does not receive any linkage support is that the HQ 15 is providing 0 at that hex as well so no supply to give sort of thing.

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