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Question about movement. - 5/20/2003 8:48:01 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		Hi folks,

I need some help here, I'm in a PBEM match with the germans against soviets at Kursk map done by WB for "Moment of truth" scen.
My opponent is complaing that he only can see my units when they return fire over him and when he looks to my unit it shows to him "moving at 5 mph" for exemple..He says that my units are running over the field and he "MUST" be able to see them cause at such speed they are running..I'm moving my squads hex by hex and at for each hex I move in I see the unit's speed increasing..first hex "2mph", second one "4mph", third "7mph" so I'm in doubt if my units are running or not???
I believed till now that move a unit hex by hex didn't means "run" only if I selected a destination point far from my unit and it would try to reach it "running" for that hex...is my concept right???

Well, sorry for such dumb question :)
But any comments will be appreciated

Alessandro

------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian fighters over Italy

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Post #: 1
- 5/20/2003 9:38:47 PM   
Rhodan

 

Posts: 214
Joined: 2/24/2001
From: Netherlands
Status: offline 		Your opponent best come to terms with a basic law of games on computers..the data decides what is fair, not the players :D

I took some advice from another player back in 2001, whenever you run into a situation that seems hard to explain at first ..use a bit of fantasy. Maybe the grass is very high , maybe your men belong to a crack unit that trained for ages in running bend over, Maybe they run from cover to cover within the hex? I believe those hexes represent something bigger then 10 by 10 meters. With some imagination it might be deducted then that the terrain showed int he hex is an average representation? For example it may show as a grass hex, but who is to say there are not a few boulders/ditches/tress in there as well?

During my soldiering time it was impressed upon me that running from cover to cover was a GOOD thing under enemy fire, where as jumping around on a pogo stick just so your enemy could see you better was a sure fire to get shot. People THAT dumb usually go into politics :)

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 2
- 5/20/2003 9:39:47 PM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		By moving hex-by-hex, you are essentially being sneaky, it is a game engine flaw, that keeps tabs on movement, raising the speed shown each time you move! So, to answer your question, nothing is wrong, your troops are being cautious, and moving slow, it's just the Steel Panthers engine that is flawed, it will show 5mph fo full movement, whether you click all at once, or move as you say, that's why he can't see you!! If he wants to see them better, perhaps he should right click with unsuppressed infantry, or recon elements, in a circle around the unit, in an attempt to 'see' your troops that way. That doesn't always work either, but does help!! Hope this answers your question enough?!;)

Warhorse

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Meine Ehre heißt Treue
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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 3
- 5/20/2003 10:08:28 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		Warhorse and Rhodan,

thanks a lot for your comments!! :D
Of course all that was said contibute to the hability of see enemy units and at the Kursk map from WB there's a mix of terrain types such high grass, corn fields..etc...also Arty fumes and some SS units involved into the breakthrough.
I just wanted to be sure that moving hex by hex is considered by the AI engine as sneaky movement and not run.
Since he insists to say that move hex by hex or many at a time is the same thing for the AI, run...

Thanks a lot for your inputs :D

Alessandro

-----------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian fighters over Italy

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 4
- 5/21/2003 6:47:29 AM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Alessandro, then the solution is quite clear, you continue to move stealthy, and hidden, and he can continue to run, and get shot up, heh, heh, ya know, since they're the same;) :D

Warhorse

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Meine Ehre heißt Treue
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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 5
- 5/21/2003 8:43:24 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Warhorse
[B]Alessandro, then the solution is quite clear, you continue to move stealthy, and hidden, and he can continue to run, and get shot up, heh, heh, ya know, since they're the same;) :D

Warhorse [/B][/QUOTE]

He he...Yes, you are entirelly right, I showed to him your answer at the Blitzgamer forum where he opened a thread about this and one more guy told me this is an absurd..
But of course as you said I know what I'm doing :D

Thanks a lot!

Alessandro

-------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian Fighters over Italy

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Post #: 6
- 5/21/2003 10:22:04 PM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Am I playing a different game?

1.) If I move a unit to the end of it's movement, whether it's in one click or by clicking each hex in succession, I end up with the same speed on the final hex. (If I fire or am fired on, my speed slows--it can even go negative! ;)) Speed increases linearly for every hex I move, whether I click or not.

2.) If I'm moving the full allotment in one click, I am usually not spotted on the first hex, probably not on the second, and sometimes not on the third... but after that, I am usually spotted if someone is in LOS. Just like if I click one by one, the first hex I move this turn, I'm usually not spotted... probably not on the second hex I click... and sometimes I'm not on the third... but again, if I click on the fourth, not only am I at the same speed by the time I've been spotted, but I'm also probably spotted.

So, 3.) The only way I have been able to "sneak" is to move one or two hexes at a time... as in, this turn I click on the hex in front of my scout unit. Maybe I click on the next one too. They are moving carefully, and slow. I don't click on a third hex until AFTER I quit this turn... and thus my scouts are stealing smokes from the enemy's ammo dump eventually.

You guys make it sound like you could move a cavalry unit all 22 hexes in one turn by clicking them one at a time and be just as safe as if you spent 11 turns only going two hexes at once...

... and that just isn't the case in any of my experiences.

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 7
- 5/22/2003 12:21:52 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]Am I playing a different game?

1.) If I move a unit to the end of it's movement, whether it's in one click or by clicking each hex in succession, I end up with the same speed on the final hex. (If I fire or am fired on, my speed slows--it can even go negative! ;)) Speed increases linearly for every hex I move, whether I click or not.

I agree with this for sure, But I thought that a unit moving 150 meters for exemple not necessarilly would be running the entire distance, it could do a short run, stop, scout the area and then another short run till the final destination, this could represents to move hex by hex.



2.) If I'm moving the full allotment in one click, I am usually not spotted on the first hex, probably not on the second, and sometimes not on the third... but after that, I am usually spotted if someone is in LOS. Just like if I click one by one, the first hex I move this turn, I'm usually not spotted... probably not on the second hex I click... and sometimes I'm not on the third... but again, if I click on the fourth, not only am I at the same speed by the time I've been spotted, but I'm also probably spotted.


I agree with this too, in my PBEM match, I'm facing a line of mines and dragon's teeth from north to south, my units are opening a breach on it and are only moving two hexes ahead in avarage so the first hex I enter the speed rises to 2mph, at the second one 5 mph and my unit stops at that hex without being spotted, when his units open fire against my visible ones, those stopped reacts to fire and he says that he would must be able to see those since its speed is 5 mph.


So, 3.) The only way I have been able to "sneak" is to move one or two hexes at a time... as in, this turn I click on the hex in front of my scout unit. Maybe I click on the next one too. They are moving carefully, and slow. I don't click on a third hex until AFTER I quit this turn... and thus my scouts are stealing smokes from the enemy's ammo dump eventually.

Right!!!! :D
That's what I 'm trying to say!!!


You guys make it sound like you could move a cavalry unit all 22 hexes in one turn by clicking them one at a time and be just as safe as if you spent 11 turns only going two hexes at once...

... and that just isn't the case in any of my experiences. [/B][/QUOTE]

No way!!!!

Thanks for your input :)

Alessandro

-----------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian Fighters over Italy

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 8
- 5/23/2003 10:07:26 AM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline 		Olá Alessandro,

Just to say hello.

And to remind you that no matter how sneaky you are you will fall under my combined arms tactics. Specially my Mitchells :D.

Um abraço,

Ricardo

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 9
- 5/23/2003 7:37:57 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by RichardTheFirst
[B]Olá Alessandro,

Just to say hello.

And to remind you that no matter how sneaky you are you will fall under my combined arms tactics. Specially my Mitchells :D.

Um abraço,

Ricardo [/B][/QUOTE]

Good God!!!!!

Olá Ricardo!, nice to see you here again buddy :D
He..he ....you will discover that things changed quite a lot from our first matches ;)...I'm ready to face you and your Mitchels at the field when you want :D

Abraço

Alessandro

--------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian Fighters over Italy

_____________________________



(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 10
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