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question about movement at SPWAW H2H

 
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question about movement at SPWAW H2H - 5/21/2003 3:32:40 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		Hi folks,

I need some help here, I'm in a PBEM match with the germans against soviets at Kursk map done by WB for "Moment of truth" scen.
My opponent is complaing that he only can see my units when they return fire over him and when he looks to my unit it shows to him "moving at 5 mph" for exemple..He says that my units are running over the field and he "MUST" be able to see them cause at such speed they are running..I'm moving my squads hex by hex and at for each hex I move in I see the unit's speed increasing..first hex "2mph", second one "4mph", third "7mph" so I'm in doubt if my units are running or not???
I believed till now that move a unit hex by hex didn't means "run" only if I selected a destination point far from my unit and it would try to reach it "running" for that hex...is my concept right???

Well, sorry for such dumb question
But any comments will be appreciated

Would be possible that one of the game designers put an answer for this question too so I could finish with this silly discussion?

Thanks

Alessandro

------------------------
Senta à Pua!!!!
Brazilian fighters over Italy

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Post #: 1
- 5/21/2003 4:24:18 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		It may be useful for your friend to understand that spotting is more difficult in H2H compared to v7.1. And besides, there is no rule that says the opponent has to see anything.

And another thing, if he hasn't set his op fire to shoot at a long enough range, then he may be "seeing" them as they move across his units' LOS, but if you end the turn out of LOS, then he would never actually know that his units saw your men "running."

I don't think your concept of sneaking is accurate either. If a turn is X minutes long. Then an infantry unit can't crawl on its belly to its maximum distance. To reach its maximum possible distance, it would have to move at its maximum speed. e.g. If I have a car that can go 100 kph, I can't go 100km in 1 hour without going 100kph. The "sneaking" you are doing is just a prudent way to move so you don't cause your men to travel right into the waiting guns of previously unseen enemy units. Every hex you carefully move gives you an opportunity to gather intel and thus avoid threats. Only newbies would move a Hellcat or T-34 its maximum range without doing so in small, safe, steps.

Sorry to seem so negative.;)

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 2
- 5/21/2003 8:26:56 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]It may be useful for your friend to understand that spotting is more difficult in H2H compared to v7.1. And besides, there is no rule that says the opponent has to see anything.

And another thing, if he hasn't set his op fire to shoot at a long enough range, then he may be "seeing" them as they move across his units' LOS, but if you end the turn out of LOS, then he would never actually know that his units saw your men "running."

I don't think your concept of sneaking is accurate either. If a turn is X minutes long. Then an infantry unit can't crawl on its belly to its maximum distance. To reach its maximum possible distance, it would have to move at its maximum speed. e.g. If I have a car that can go 100 kph, I can't go 100km in 1 hour without going 100kph. The "sneaking" you are doing is just a prudent way to move so you don't cause your men to travel right into the waiting guns of previously unseen enemy units. Every hex you carefully move gives you an opportunity to gather intel and thus avoid threats. Only newbies would move a Hellcat or T-34 its maximum range without doing so in small, safe, steps.

Sorry to seem so negative.;) [/B][/QUOTE]

thanks for your input :)

He he..of course I'm sure a unit cannot snaek over its belly and reach an hex 250 meters ahead in a 2 minutes turn ;)
but since a 2 minutes turn represents "several minutes" of field action I thought the such movement could be done :D
My doubt here concerns with unit's speed, I never payed attention to this till now and is quite difficult to me think that all units are running through the battle field during the entire game. if I move only two hexes ahead and its final speed is showed as 5 mph for exemple and that's the central point of my opponent's complain, his units are dug in and receive fire from my units that are moving only two hexes ahead in avarege to reach the front line and their final speed is showed as 5 mph so he says he must be able to see them arriving at the hex cause they are running at such speed.

Alessandro

--------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian Fighters over Italy

_____________________________



(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 3
- 5/22/2003 1:10:44 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Unless you guys are playing on a football field, I don't see why he insists his men should see you.:confused:

"Clear" terrain doesn't mean table top flatness. I was walking my dog in the desert yesterday and I lost site of him several times in an open plain just by glancing away for a moment. And he moves faster than 5mph and wasn't trying to hide from me.

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 4
- 5/22/2003 1:24:27 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]Unless you guys are playing on a football field, I don't see why he insists his men should see you.:confused:

"Clear" terrain doesn't mean table top flatness. I was walking my dog in the desert yesterday and I lost site of him several times in an open plain just by glancing away for a moment. And he moves faster than 5mph and wasn't trying to hide from me. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, perhaps he thinks only speed is the key factor to determine if a unit can be spotted or not???
poor chap :D

------------------
Senta à Pua!!!
Brazilian Fighters over Italy

_____________________________



(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 5
- 5/22/2003 5:47:50 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		If you're driving a SturmTiger around, it's going to be seen whether it's moving 1mph or 50mph. If you are a sniper, you will not necessarily be seen even if you "run" your full movement in a turn. Your friend needs to get out more and observe the world around him. All will be made clear. I think SPWAW models things as best as you could hope for given the technology/price(free).

What's the bottom line? Is he suggesting SPWAW is screwed up or that just this PBEM you have going isn't working properly?

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 6
- 5/22/2003 8:03:29 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]If you're driving a SturmTiger around, it's going to be seen whether it's moving 1mph or 50mph. If you are a sniper, you will not necessarily be seen even if you "run" your full movement in a turn. Your friend needs to get out more and observe the world around him. All will be made clear. I think SPWAW models things as best as you could hope for given the technology/price(free).

What's the bottom line? Is he suggesting SPWAW is screwed up or that just this PBEM you have going isn't working properly? [/B][/QUOTE]

He he..no doubt about mate :)
At first glance I had the ideia he was suggesting I was cheating so I did my observations but He still insists that he must be able to see my units due its speed than I asked him if I was cheating at his point of view??
Now he's saying that can be a "strange routine"??? that perhaps someone had added to H2H....anyway I think that I understood better the "hex by hex" movement and of course I agree we have the best at hands for the "price" we paid :)

Alessandro

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 7
- 5/22/2003 9:28:11 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		What kind of unit he's spotting with, and what experience he has will matter a lot as well. Tanks are worthless in locating enemy other than other tanks...

If he thinks he'll be able to spot you by having his tanks take a look around, he's in for a surprise. Hello infantry. :) (this is one of the things where SP:WAW has a real limit - it was common practice for tank commanders to jump out and scout ahead of the tank on foot... one human is a lot less visible than a tank)

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Got StuG?

(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 8
- 5/22/2003 9:53:24 PM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Belisarius
[B]What kind of unit he's spotting with, and what experience he has will matter a lot as well. Tanks are worthless in locating enemy other than other tanks...

If he thinks he'll be able to spot you by having his tanks take a look around, he's in for a surprise. Hello infantry. :) (this is one of the things where SP:WAW has a real limit - it was common practice for tank commanders to jump out and scout ahead of the tank on foot... one human is a lot less visible than a tank) [/B][/QUOTE]

Correct :D

His units are regular russian infantry dug in but the field is plenty of corn fields, high grass, stone walls, smoke and shell holes made by almost 10 turns of bombardment from both sides from calibers since 76mm till nebelwerffers, my units are pioners and SS squads following to the breach moving in average two hexes or less per turn :D
Panzers are ready some hexes behind to exploit the breakthrough.

_____________________________



(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 9
- 5/22/2003 11:35:08 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I'm playing in the World Cup against sztartur right now. I'm Russian and his tactic for the first 20 turns of a 27 turn game was to move his Rangers on foot one hex at a time. I was lucky to spot 2 of them each turn and he must have about 20 squads out there at least.:eek:

He has far more patience than I would have had. But the tactic works. If I can't see them, I can't shoot them and he was walking (sneaking) across open fields with no smoke and no cover.

If you're moving 1 or 2 hexes a turn on foot you are very hard to spot especially by the Russians (they were mostly drunk on vodka anyway).:rolleyes:

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 10
- 5/23/2003 12:12:12 AM   
adantas

 

Posts: 241
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: São paulo - Brazil
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]I'm playing in the World Cup against sztartur right now. I'm Russian and his tactic for the first 20 turns of a 27 turn game was to move his Rangers on foot one hex at a time. I was lucky to spot 2 of them each turn and he must have about 20 squads out there at least.:eek:

He has far more patience than I would have had. But the tactic works. If I can't see them, I can't shoot them and he was walking (sneaking) across open fields with no smoke and no cover.

If you're moving 1 or 2 hexes a turn on foot you are very hard to spot especially by the Russians (they were mostly drunk on vodka anyway).:rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

Good God!!!!

That's the answer, Vodka!!! :D
LOL...I think I'll kindly ask him to check the manual and take a look at forum, perhaps he changes his mind :)

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(in reply to adantas)
Post #: 11
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