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Keyboard shortcuts? - 10/1/2017 8:05:37 PM

Shadrach

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From: Oslo, Norway
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Looking at the preview videos posted I'm really impressed, this game and Unity of Command 2 are definitely in my must-play list for the coming year

One thing that I notice in the videos is the heavy use of the mouse for every single operation. Sure, I know for a game of this type, using the mouse is needed, but it would help a great deal if at least the most common actions are available through keyboard shortcuts. It saves time, and helps the player avoid the very painful (I know from experience) condition called RSI (or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome).

Simple stuff like accepting and closing dialog boxes, viewing the different battle reports (the player will view these a lot from what I can tell), the most common actions in the right click menu, toggling the different map overlays (supply etc), next/prev unit and group, and the options in the right-hand game menu should ideally be available on the keyboard.

One thing especially I notice, is the End Turn option, the player actually has to move the mouse to hit the button, which in addition is *dangerously* close to the End Scenario option - during the videos the player hits the wrong button several times

. This is, to be honest, just really lazy UI design...

It looks like for a lot of stuff (dropdown menus, right-click) you are using standard Windows controls, and adding keyboard shortcuts to these should be a really basic thing to implement.

I often find stuff like the UI and "Quality of Life" for the player is sadly often overlooked in many war games like this. Since I'm really looking forward to TOAW4 I really hope you guys are aware of these issues

Is there a list of the common keyboard shortcuts?

Post #: 1

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 10/2/2017 4:26:56 PM

Meyer1

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TOAW III has a number of keyboard shortcuts, I'm sure at least all of those will remain in TOAW 4. I don't think the guy that did the preview was very familiar with the series.
That said, one can never had too many shortcuts, hopefully will be more in the new game.

< Message edited by Meyer1 -- 10/2/2017 4:27:48 PM >

(in reply to Shadrach)

Post #: 2

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 10/2/2017 5:52:03 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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User definable hot keys would be great.

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A: A stick.

(in reply to Meyer1)

Post #: 3

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/9/2017 3:12:59 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
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Here's a full list of commands.
Setting Menu Delay to 1 enables the 'Classic' mode, right click opens a menu.
Setting Menu Delay to anything else enables the 'Updated' mode, right click either moves or attacks. right-click and hold opens a menu.
Mouse Drags now works in most places like a right click.
Double-click on an enemy unit optionally opens up the combat planner dialog.
Left mouse click on some dialogs hides the dialog so you can see the map.

Mousewheel or extra mouse buttons - zoom the map in and out.
F1 - Help
F2 - Open the Group Composition dialog
F3 - Saves Map
F4 - If in OOB, saves OOB for both sides
F4 Shift Ctrl - saves OOB for current player
F5 - If in OOB, reads OOB for both sides
F6 - If not playing saves event file
F7 - If not playing loads event file
F8 - If not playing saves scenraio as 3.2
F9 - If playing does a quick save
F11 - Creates a NewGameText.xml file
F12 or \-Toggles Elmer Deployment Mode
Shift F12 or | Elmer moves your units
Arrow Keys - Move map
Ctrl Arrow Keys - Move micro map
Center Numpad Key Centers Map on Unit

1-9 Selects that entry on a dialog that has the entries above each other.
Space - Shows/Hides units for terrain analysis. Also hides some dialogs so you can see the map.
Escape or Enter - Closes mose dialogs
A - List Air Units
A/Shift - Air List
A - If in Editor OOB, calls oob_put_unit_equipment
B - Find Place
B/Ctrl - Find Next Place
C - Group Composition dialog
D - Dig in
E - End Turn
F - Formation dialog
G - Selects next unit in stack
G - If in Editor OOB, calls oob_get_unit_equipment
H - Moves HQs to top of stacks, second time moves Artillery to tops of stacks
I - Toggles through the range circles options
L - Toggle through loss limit settings
L/Shift - Toggle the stack through loss limit settings
M - Shows remaining movement or attack/defense strength
N/+ - Next Unit
- - Previous unit
O - Brings up OOB (list of all Units)
P - Brings up combat planner
R - Refresh the display of the current unit
T - Tactical reserve mode
T/Shift - Theater options
U - Unit Report
W - Toggle Weather On/Off
Z - Undo
. - Disembarks the unit if embarked, else goes to next unit.
, - Integrates or splits units
/ Show current formation path
? Show all formation paths

(in reply to Lobster)

Post #: 4

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/9/2017 4:26:18 PM

Meyer1

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No new shortcuts? Looks like the same as before.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 5

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/9/2017 9:32:22 PM

Shadrach

Posts: 727
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From: Oslo, Norway
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Thanks a lot for the list Larry!

Looks like I needn't worry and most is actually thought out. Learning the proper hotkeys is a real time-saver. The thing I was most worried about was the dialogs, looks like there's a lot of them and having to use the mouse to close them just seemed a *lot* of clicking.

Cheers!

(in reply to Meyer1)

Post #: 6

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/9/2017 9:38:37 PM

larryfulkerson

Posts: 39932
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From: Tucson, AZ
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quote:

The thing I was most worried about was the dialogs, looks like there's a lot of them and having to use the mouse to close them just seemed a *lot* of clicking.

I've been using the escape key to close the dialogs. Is that not in the list somewhere? It needs to be there.

EDIT: The list says that the escape key closes mose dialogs and I have no idea you can only close mose dialogs and
not the others. Maybe we should fix that. Is mose a new class of dialog. Non-modal or something. Whatever they
are they are unsatisfactory as of the moment.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 11/9/2017 9:40:57 PM >

(in reply to Shadrach)

Post #: 7

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/9/2017 9:44:46 PM

Shadrach

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From: Oslo, Norway
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Nah, what I meant to say was, looks like it's been sorted - either ESC or Enter will do nicely :)

-S

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 8

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/11/2017 4:53:26 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

The thing I was most worried about was the dialogs, looks like there's a lot of them and having to use the mouse to close them just seemed a *lot* of clicking.

I've been using the escape key to close the dialogs. Is that not in the list somewhere? It needs to be there.

EDIT: The list says that the escape key closes mose dialogs and I have no idea you can only close mose dialogs and
not the others. Maybe we should fix that. Is mose a new class of dialog. Non-modal or something. Whatever they
are they are unsatisfactory as of the moment.

That's me Wemblying

As far as I know all dialogs where it makes sense should respond to escape as close with no changes. Enter may and may not work, depending on the dialog. If one's missing, I'll add it in a patch. If anyone has reasonable suggestions for hotkeys, I'll consider adding them. The only exception would be the main menu, which is a dialog. You can't close that by hitting escape, you have to click or hit <ALT>-F4.

_____________________________

Ralph Trickey
TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 9

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/11/2017 9:27:51 PM

Shadrach

Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline

Thanks for the information Ralph

- just wondering since I notice a lot of the combat results and loss report dialogs have even more buttons on the bottom, so is there a way to select for instance the losses information with just the keyboard?

A big part of the game is examining these dialogs and hopefully we won't have to use the mouse for all those sub-dialogs.

On a UI side note, not related to keyboard shortcuts, what was the decision behind placing the "next round" button on the top left directly alongside what I suspect is the quit button? It just seems strange and prone to clicking the wrong thing. Also since all other buttons are on the left, it just seems illogical to not have them on the bottom right below the other options.

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 10

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/11/2017 10:22:30 PM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stian

Thanks for the information Ralph - just wondering since I notice a lot of the combat results and loss report dialogs have even more buttons on the bottom, so is there a way to select for instance the losses information with just the keyboard?

A big part of the game is examining these dialogs and hopefully we won't have to use the mouse for all those sub-dialogs.

On a UI side note, not related to keyboard shortcuts, what was the decision behind placing the "next round" button on the top left directly alongside what I suspect is the quit button? It just seems strange and prone to clicking the wrong thing. Also since all other buttons are on the left, it just seems illogical to not have them on the bottom right below the other options.

I don't think there are any keyboard shortcuts for that screen, that's a good idea though. I hadn't given as much thought to navigating individual screens like that. The mouse does go to the close button on most screens though. That was a tough decision, I don't like to move the mouse on you, but the benefit of being able to click to close it overrode that.

That bar on the top left is one that I don't love, but it's the best I could figure out.

The left button toggles between three different views. The normal view, a view that allows you to view the battles on the map and a view optimized for setting AI objectives. The right button allows you to toggle any or all of the on screen elements. If you're playing Arracourt or even Korea, the MicroMap may not make any sense and you'd rather see more map. You can turn off the Air panel in a scenario that doesn't have a lot of air, etc. You can also drag the windows around to where you want them. I don't save their positions across sessions right now, that was intentional for release. I don't like letting people totally confuse themselves. It may show up later on.

The only ways to exit are File/Close on the menu, the windows close button on the top-right and <alt>-F4. These all take you back to the start screen.

Ralph

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Post #: 11

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/11/2017 11:48:17 PM

Shadrach

Posts: 727
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From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline

quote:

I don't think there are any keyboard shortcuts for that screen, that's a good idea though. I hadn't given as much thought to navigating individual screens like that. The mouse does go to the close button on most screens though. That was a tough decision, I don't like to move the mouse on you, but the benefit of being able to click to close it overrode that.

Well as long as ESC closes most dialogs as well that's a fine solution. I agree on overriding the user's mouse since I prefer to use the keyboard anyway and not need to find the mouse cursor after it's been moved.

I notice in Larry's list the following: "1-9 Selects that entry on a dialog that has the entries above each other. "
Is that the same as these below?

If keyboard shortcuts are present for these it would be a good help I think. Maybe the number keys would be perfect for that use, for instance in the Loss Reports and so on, to quickly move between attacker/defender losses and so on. If not the numbers row then maybe ZXCV could be the same use?

quote:

That bar on the top left is one that I don't love, but it's the best I could figure out.

The left button toggles between three different views. The normal view, a view that allows you to view the battles on the map and a view optimized for setting AI objectives. The right button allows you to toggle any or all of the on screen elements.

The two buttons on the top left, one with two flags, one with an arrow right? I'm sure I've seen in videos the arrow one is used to go to Attack Resolution. And I'm sure I've seen once or twice the player accidentally clicking the left one with the flags, and being asked if they wanted to end the game and return to main screen, which would be annoying to do all the time.

If they are just for toggling views, then that's a good a position as any I guess - my problem was if the arrow one was being used all the time, next to a button you rarely want to use :)

Anyway, not a big deal, from what I've seen the game is looking great, and minor things like these can be sorted in patches later :)

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 12

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/12/2017 3:17:48 AM

ralphtricky

Posts: 6685
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From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stian
I notice in Larry's list the following: "1-9 Selects that entry on a dialog that has the entries above each other. "
Is that the same as these below?

No, that's the dialog which says things like Exit, Save and Exit, Cancel. One keystroke I use all the time is to hit the E key for end turn, look at the dialog to see if it says End Turn or Start Combat (I think) then hit the 1 key for the top option which is continue.

quote:

quote:

That bar on the top left is one that I don't love, but it's the best I could figure out.

The left button toggles between three different views. The normal view, a view that allows you to view the battles on the map and a view optimized for setting AI objectives. The right button allows you to toggle any or all of the on screen elements.

The two buttons on the top left, one with two flags, one with an arrow right? I'm sure I've seen in videos the arrow one is used to go to Attack Resolution. And I'm sure I've seen once or twice the player accidentally clicking the left one with the flags, and being asked if they wanted to end the game and return to main screen, which would be annoying to do all the time.

If they are just for toggling views, then that's a good a position as any I guess - my problem was if the arrow one was being used all the time, next to a button you rarely want to use :)

Anyway, not a big deal, from what I've seen the game is looking great, and minor things like these can be sorted in patches later :)

The buttons on the top left are strictly for displays. I just hate modes like that for displays.

They probably hit E 1, I use that all the time myself. The other options is on the button panel on the bottom right, a button on the top row ends the turn.

Ralph

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Post #: 13

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/19/2017 3:02:54 PM

Meyer1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

That's me Wemblying As far as I know all dialogs where it makes sense should respond to escape as close with no changes. Enter may and may not work, depending on the dialog. If one's missing, I'll add it in a patch. If anyone has reasonable suggestions for hotkeys, I'll consider adding them. The only exception would be the main menu, which is a dialog. You can't close that by hitting escape, you have to click or hit <ALT>-F4.

I think a hotkey that would be useful to have is one to cycle the supply view. Specially since the S key is available

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 14

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/19/2017 3:13:56 PM

Templer_12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1
I think a hotkey that would be useful to have is one to cycle the supply view. Specially since the S key is available

Please, yes!

And 'F2' and 'c' are identically occupied.

< Message edited by Templer -- 11/19/2017 3:17:04 PM >

(in reply to Meyer1)

Post #: 15

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/19/2017 4:45:03 PM

Sniper31

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

That's me Wemblying As far as I know all dialogs where it makes sense should respond to escape as close with no changes. Enter may and may not work, depending on the dialog. If one's missing, I'll add it in a patch. If anyone has reasonable suggestions for hotkeys, I'll consider adding them. The only exception would be the main menu, which is a dialog. You can't close that by hitting escape, you have to click or hit <ALT>-F4.

I think a hotkey that would be useful to have is one to cycle the supply view. Specially since the S key is available

Concur with this request. I too would like a shortcut key for Supply.

_____________________________

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Post #: 16

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/19/2017 7:28:03 PM

Moltke71

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From the manual:

There is a text file, called
�KeyCommands.txt�, in the manuals folder that
details all hot keys available.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/19/2017 7:48:52 PM

Sniper31

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltke71

From the manual:

There is a text file, called
�KeyCommands.txt�, in the manuals folder that
details all hot keys available.

I am aware of this Key Commands file, but I have not seen a keystroke to cycle through Supply listed there. Maybe I missed it, so to be diligent, I shall check again. But if it's not there, then I still would like one.

UPDATE: Went through Key Commands file line by line, and as suspected, there is no keystroke for cycling Supply.

< Message edited by Sniper31 -- 11/19/2017 7:52:24 PM >

_____________________________

"I say again, expend ALL remaining in my perimeter!" - Platoon

"This is JB27, on target...fire for effect.." - Me

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Post #: 18

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/19/2017 9:19:32 PM

Tzar007

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From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
F4 - If in OOB, saves OOB for both sides
F4 Shift Ctrl - saves OOB for current player
F5 - If in OOB, reads OOB for both sides

I am curious about these OOB commands. I am indeed able to save an .oob file when pressing Shift+Ctrl+F4, but how do you actually open/read such files?

(in reply to larryfulkerson)

Post #: 19

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/21/2017 11:51:19 PM

Meyer1

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Just a few ideas, that the programmers could consider possible/worth it or not, not even a request

-hotkeys for hide/show the different panels
-when bring the stack composition up (with C or F2), after select a unit the dialog would close automatically without having to hit the button/key (is there a downside to this?)
-Perhaps more difficult: when a panel is open, opening another panel would close the first one (so there's no need to close the first before)

(in reply to Tzar007)

Post #: 20

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/22/2017 2:40:02 AM

Gandalf3019

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1
-hotkeys for hide/show the different panels

No hotkey but it is right there on the map in upper left. Took me a few playings to realize it was there, default has the menu closed. Hit the arrow by the double flag icon.

(in reply to Meyer1)

Post #: 21

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/22/2017 2:46:21 AM

Meyer1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gandalf3019

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meyer1
-hotkeys for hide/show the different panels

No hotkey but it is right there on the map in upper left. Took me a few playings to realize it was there, default has the menu closed. Hit the arrow by the double flag icon.

I know, thanks, but I'd like to be able to change it with the keyboard too.

(in reply to Gandalf3019)

Post #: 22

RE: Keyboard shortcuts? - 11/22/2017 2:49:21 AM

Meyer1

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Joined: 2/9/2010
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Got more sorry

To be able to use some keys that exists inside some dialogs, for example, in the Unit report, to use the keys for next unit, change deployment, loss tolerance, etc.

Edit: I see that the "F" key works inside the Unit report panel, nice. Well, that's the idea, to expand on that.

< Message edited by Meyer1 -- 11/22/2017 2:51:50 AM >

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Post #: 23