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Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational game - 11/25/2017 7:25:56 PM   
rjantzi


Posts: 92
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		I'm looking for a good tactical or operational level Napoleonic game. I thought SOW might fill the bill but there seems to be as many negative reviews/comments as positive. I'm open for suggestions as to which game(s) I should be considering.
Post #: 1
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 8:19:49 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		Waterloo is an excellent game. Tiller games are easy to learn but difficult to master. Furthermore, there are many other titles in this serie. I also recommend you BPW, rought terrain makes it so replayable.

< Message edited by Jafele -- 11/25/2017 8:21:21 PM >

_____________________________

Las batallas contra las mujeres son las únicas que se ganan huyendo.

NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE


Cuando el necio oye la verdad se carcajea, porque si no lo hiciera la verdad no sería la verdad.

LAO TSE

(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 2
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 8:49:14 PM   
rjantzi


Posts: 92
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks for the reply. I'll spend some time looking at those.

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 3
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 8:56:38 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		There´s a Waterloo demo here called "The final struggle". And 83 additional scenarios here (Waterloo Expansion pack).

< Message edited by Jafele -- 11/25/2017 8:57:01 PM >

_____________________________

Las batallas contra las mujeres son las únicas que se ganan huyendo.

NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE


Cuando el necio oye la verdad se carcajea, porque si no lo hiciera la verdad no sería la verdad.

LAO TSE

(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 4
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 9:32:06 PM   
rjantzi


Posts: 92
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		Just took a quick look at the Tiller website. There's a lot of content there to review. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 5
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 9:35:21 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rjantzi

I'm looking for a good tactical or operational level Napoleonic game. I thought SOW might fill the bill but there seems to be as many negative reviews/comments as positive. I'm open for suggestions as to which game(s) I should be considering.


if you are looking for an operational game then 'Campaigns on the Danube' to me captures the essence of the era. The way it integrates Fog of War, orders, supply bases, even the location of your hospitals is brilliant and in turn sheds a lot of light on why certain campaigns unfolded the way they did.

At the moment the game system only covers the 1805 and 1809 struggles between Austria and France but there are promises of it being extended to the 1806-7 wars and 1812-13.

_____________________________


(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 6
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 9:46:02 PM   
rjantzi


Posts: 92
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		How do the games available on the Tiller site differ from the Battleground Series still available on Matrix? Just newer and improved or are they basically the same games? I'm seeing the "John Tiller’s Battleground Napoleonic Wars" on sale on Matrix and wondering how different the versions are on the Tiller site.


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 7
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 10:26:24 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		Not the same games. Battlegrounds are a different older serie (from the 90s).

Battlegrond gaphics and UI are really dated. Furthermore you´ll probably have issues with the screen resolution. It´s a good game and cheap but might be a risky option for your eyes .

Being sincere Waterloo graphics are not the best of the best, however there are quite a few mods out there to make it "good looking".

< Message edited by Jafele -- 11/25/2017 10:37:00 PM >

_____________________________

Las batallas contra las mujeres son las únicas que se ganan huyendo.

NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE


Cuando el necio oye la verdad se carcajea, porque si no lo hiciera la verdad no sería la verdad.

LAO TSE

(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 8
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 11:35:20 PM   
nelmsm1


Posts: 1041
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I'd second the recommendation for the new John Tiller games. I don't think you'll find a better set of battefield games. You can find the one campaign that interests you the most and know you'll have a plethora of scenarios that run the gamut from small to large. There is a large PBEM community as well. I will caution though that these don't have great AI's though there has been more effort to include more scenarios designed for solo play

_____________________________


(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 9
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/25/2017 11:51:14 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		If you have DosBox or D-Fend Reloaded then you'll want "Battles of Napoleon" best Napoleonic game to me ever produced. It even has a battle generator to make what if scenarios that you can do any part of and the computer will finish it. It's by SSI and I'm sure you can find it with google.

(in reply to nelmsm1)
Post #: 10
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 12:01:11 AM   
PoorOldSpike


Posts: 228
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Plymouth, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rjantzi

I'm looking for a good tactical or operational level Napoleonic game. I thought SOW might fill the bill but there seems to be as many negative reviews/comments as positive. I'm open for suggestions as to which game(s) I should be considering.


Get 'Napoleon Total War Collection', it's currently only 4.99 GB pounds (about 7 US dollars) on Steam and I'm downloading it now because at that price we can't go wrong..:)

http://store.steampowered.com/app/34030/Napoleon_Total_War/

I've already got 'Empire Total War' which mainly covers the 1700's and like it a lot, so NapTotWar will take me into the 1800's.
Remember, you DON'T have to play big campaigns (I never do), because I prefer playing individual battles at the tactical level and zoom right down there to rub shoulders with my men, heck I might even bump into Sharpe himself..:)


(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 11
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 12:20:01 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		I would recommend Tiller's Leipzig or Marengo. Almost all the other Nappy games have not been updated hardly at all from the HPS versions. If you look at the Tiller readme files, you can see how little has been done with them so far.

Operationally, there is Paradox March of the Eagles, which you can get very cheap on Steam for one, I am sure. It looks like Crusader Kings II, meaning both beautiful and complex. Lots of historical detail and leaders, but I cannot vouch for the AI in the game. Unlike the Europa series, this one concentrates mostly on combat and not on politics, intrigue, etc.


(in reply to PoorOldSpike)
Post #: 12
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 5:30:56 AM   
PoorOldSpike


Posts: 228
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Plymouth, England
Status: offline 		Well I just downloaded 'Napoleon Total War Collection' from Steam and it runs like a dream, one thing I especially like is that you can build your own battles with just a few mouse clicks to any size and length you like, from a couple of units of say just 50 men in a 20-minute game to an entire army of several thousands with no time limit..:)

< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/26/2017 5:36:13 AM >

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 13
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 9:26:41 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline 		Am a really fan of the Battles of Napoleon;

i used to play IBM SCENARIOS DISK FOR SSI'S battles of napoleon

- Maida, Austerlitz, Utitsa, Marengo, Redoubt for only 35$..but is more..more than..35 battles yes..of Napoleon...and 40 revolutionary war battles.

(soory not found any on YouTube) to link.



(in reply to PoorOldSpike)
Post #: 14
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 11:12:51 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke

Am a really fan of the Battles of Napoleon;

i used to play IBM SCENARIOS DISK FOR SSI'S battles of napoleon

- Maida, Austerlitz, Utitsa, Marengo, Redoubt for only 35$..but is more..more than..35 battles yes..of Napoleon...and 40 revolutionary war battles.

(soory not found any on YouTube) to link.




+1
i still have the 5.25" floppies and a Win95 PC to play it on.

< Message edited by Zorch -- 11/26/2017 11:13:35 AM >

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 15
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 11:18:47 AM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline 		The only thing I'm sure of is that Bonaparte was a better general than Napoleon.
So my question is:
When is a game about Bonaparte?

(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 16
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 11:27:11 AM   
Rodwonder

 

Posts: 193
Joined: 12/7/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

The only thing I'm sure of is that Bonaparte was a better general than Napoleon.
So my question is:
When is a game about Bonaparte?


I don't know... Austerlitz was a master piece campaign.

< Message edited by Rodwonder -- 11/26/2017 11:28:23 AM >

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 17
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 12:51:07 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke
Am a really fan of the Battles of Napoleon;
i used to play IBM SCENARIOS DISK FOR SSI'S battles of napoleon
- Maida, Austerlitz, Utitsa, Marengo, Redoubt for only 35$..but is more..more than..35 battles yes..of Napoleon...and 40 revolutionary war battles.
(soory not found any on YouTube) to link.

+1
i still have the 5.25" floppies and a Win95 PC to play it on.



< Message edited by E -- 11/29/2017 10:32:49 AM >

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(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 18
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 1:10:11 PM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rodwonder

quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

The only thing I'm sure of is that Bonaparte was a better general than Napoleon.
So my question is:
When is a game about Bonaparte?


I don't know... Austerlitz was a master piece campaign.

Napoleon, as general-in-chief of the armies, has all the resources he deems necessary. Bonaparte, as general of the Republic, has only the forces allocated to him.

(in reply to Rodwonder)
Post #: 19
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 3:43:53 PM   
Alan Sharif

 

Posts: 1108
Joined: 8/1/2001
From: UK.
Status: offline 		I will have to add Crown Of Glory to this growing list. A bit old, perhaps, but still a great game.

_____________________________

A Sharif

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 20
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 3:55:14 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke
Am a really fan of the Battles of Napoleon;
i used to play IBM SCENARIOS DISK FOR SSI'S battles of napoleon
- Maida, Austerlitz, Utitsa, Marengo, Redoubt for only 35$..but is more..more than..35 battles yes..of Napoleon...and 40 revolutionary war battles.
(soory not found any on YouTube) to link.

+1
i still have the 5.25" floppies and a Win95 PC to play it on.

I still have the 5.25 RDOS floppies and several Apple IIe's, IIc's and IIgs's to play them on (and of course the box & docs). Not to mention the conversions to Apple Emulator I made in the 90s, or the DOS version with all scenarios from 12 Novastar Scenario disks (works out to about 130 scenarios, none of which I could ever find for my preferred Apple II version *argh*).


You got me. I have only the stock scenarios.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 21
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 4:00:00 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jafele

Not the same games. Battlegrounds are a different older serie (from the 90s).

Battlegrond gaphics and UI are really dated. Furthermore you´ll probably have issues with the screen resolution. It´s a good game and cheap but might be a risky option for your eyes .

Being sincere Waterloo graphics are not the best of the best, however there are quite a few mods out there to make it "good looking".


Here is a link to a thread on another site with Tiller Napoleonic graphics mods. It should be mentioned that these are graphics-only mods, and only changes what the person who is using them sees on the screen.


http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/a-complete-list-of-the-links-to-philippes-napoleonic-mods.111328/


At the moment all of the Napoleonic games have been modded except for the Peninsular War game. The most recent mod is for Marengo which covers Napoleon's two campaigns in Italy. There's another game about the wars of the French Revolution that will be coming out soon, and that will be modded as well. The Peninsular War will get modded fairly soon, but keeps encountering problems with the 3D representations of Iberian buildings.

Waterloo gets the most attention, but my two favorites are Leipzig and Marengo. Leipzig because that rather than Waterloo is really the campaign that brought down Napoleon. If Napoleon had won at Waterloo he still would have been crushed by an 1814-style invasion of France by all the other European powers, but if he had won at Leipzig the Coalition would have fallen apart and made peace. And I love Marengo because I had a blast making the French regimental flags and the first Italian campaign which launched his career is full of small, manageable battles that are fun to play (lots of those in the 1814 game as well).

Most of the Tiller Napoleonic games have been designed and researched by Bill Peters, a brilliant game designer who is the soul of the series. His most evolved designs show up in the most recent games in the series (Bautzen, Leipzig, 1814, and Marengo).

< Message edited by Philippeatbay -- 11/26/2017 4:03:07 PM >

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 22
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 4:10:03 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		Here are some screenshots from the mod for the Marengo game. They're mostly from small battles from the campaigns of '96 and '97, and are designed to highlight the different kind of terrain you find in the Italian theater and the differing nationalities of troops.











































< Message edited by Philippeatbay -- 11/26/2017 4:16:15 PM >

(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 23
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 4:17:23 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		Here are some screenshots from the battle of Ligny, which is part of the Waterloo mod:




















(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 24
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 4:58:51 PM   
rjantzi


Posts: 92
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your advice. I've been looking at the various suggestions and I think that the Tiller series is the one that appeals to me the most. Not sure which actual campaign yet, but I'm sure I'll figure that out. One thing that I neglected to note in my original post is that I play against the AI exclusively and there's been a couple of references about the strength, or lack thereof, of this in the Tiller games. Is this something I should be concerned about? Is the AI better in the later releases? I'm thinking about either Waterloo or Leipzig and I'm wondering if improvements were made between the release dates of these two?
Lastly, in reviewing the scenario list for Leipzig I noticed that most but not all of the scenarios are made for solo play. Is this typical of all the Tiller releases?

(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 25
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 5:41:18 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		The Tiller series with the weakest AI is the ACW series, though that has been improving of late. The Napoleonic series has decent AI (stronger than the ACW AI), but it won't clean your clock the way a human opponent can. I play mostly solo or solo hotseat and find the AI to be adequate. But you won't really know how to handle troops until you've played against an experienced player, some of whom are playtesters and have been doing it so long that they know wrinkles that never got written up in the rules manual.

Setting up scenarios as solo or head to head is pretty much up to the scenario designer.

I just opened up Leipzig and glanced at the scenario list. There are close to 150 scenarios in there, and almost half of those are head to head. Bill Peters tends to make two versions of his scenarios, one for head-to-head and one for solo against the AI. Solo against the AI usually only works for one side, so the notes will tell you if a scenario is solo one side or the other. There will sometimes be a score of scenarios covering a large battle, each pair covering a different time frame (first day, second day, all three days etc.) or set of what ifs.

My impression is that there are supposed to be head to head scenarios for each historical situation. History tends to be one-sided, so there is often no point in designing a scenario for solo play for both sides (and if you really need to, you can play head-to-head solo hotseat). I think I've seen a few scenarios where you can play solo on both sides. Be aware that nothing prevents you from playing the French in a solo scenario where it's recommended that you play the Russians.

There are a lot of choices, and you end up spending a lot of time scrolling through the scenario list and reading the notes trying to figure out which version of a situation you want to play.

(in reply to rjantzi)
Post #: 26
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 5:43:57 PM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		Here are some more screenshots from different Napoleonic battles.
































(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 27
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/26/2017 9:11:15 PM   
Jafele


Posts: 737
Joined: 4/20/2011
From: Seville (Spain)
Status: offline 		I must add Tiller series are extremely realistic (almost a history book). It´s really difficult to find something like this in other games. An additional value IMO.

By the way I made a sound mod pack for the napoleonic series:



< Message edited by Jafele -- 12/4/2017 9:38:17 PM >

_____________________________

Las batallas contra las mujeres son las únicas que se ganan huyendo.

NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE


Cuando el necio oye la verdad se carcajea, porque si no lo hiciera la verdad no sería la verdad.

LAO TSE

(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 28
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/28/2017 9:53:58 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1034
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline 		i have found some tiller scenarios have better AI than others, but in all it is not totally feeble and will fight nevertheless - i have been playing the wagram campaign recently and while the first mission was hit andd miss with the AI -( it put up a fight early but collapsed once i got most of army up close, but did here and there make some small attempts to retake victory point hexes)
the second battle is harder with the AI shelling my every attemtp to repair some bridges in the south

re Total War napoleon - if you get it, get the Darthmod empire edition mod for it then too, it ramps up the AI to max and makes for a very fulfilling game when one beats it by hair!

also as well as those mentioned above Empires in Arms has really improved and offers singleplayer too and there are some usermade campaigns out there for it

and also Histwar Les Grognards and Histwar Napoleon - similar to SOW Waterloo but with the battles being the 1805-1814 period - its complex but has alot of neat elements to it

operational level though Campaigns on the Danube is the best

(in reply to Jafele)
Post #: 29
RE: Opinions on best Napoleonic tactical or operational... - 11/28/2017 9:56:17 AM   
Agathosdaimon


Posts: 1034
Joined: 7/8/2012
Status: offline 		oh and there is Napoleon in Italy from Hussar Games but it can be finicky for some newer systems, i have windows 7 64bit though and can get it to work fine with the use of a secondary integrated intel GPU that is great for older games

(in reply to Agathosdaimon)
Post #: 30
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