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Unit Readiness Recovery?

 
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Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/28/2017 11:19:02 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		How do I recover unit readiness?

As I move, attack, and defend, I notice my units' readiness levels decreasing, as should be expected. However, they never seem to go back up. I've tried rotating my units out of the front lines, not using them for movement, attacks, or defence, but units with their readiness at rock bottom just stay there. The resulting unit health icon (i.e. square coloured box in the upper right-hand corner of the unit counter) stays red. AFAIK there is no 'refit' unit mode.
Post #: 1
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/28/2017 11:43:02 PM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		Supply. Readiness is never higher than the unit supply level.

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
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RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/28/2017 11:56:33 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		My units are in supply and their supply lines aren't in enemy zones of control, but they don't recover readiness.

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Post #: 3
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 12:09:01 AM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		But what's their supply level? Again, a unit with 50% of supply its readiness is not gonna be higher than that.

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Post #: 4
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 12:21:29 AM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		The unit's readiness in my saved game is actually substantially higher than the supply level. I'm currently on Turn 34 of the Tutorial (i.e. Korean War 50-51) scenario. My Chinese units have 33% readiness but only 1% supply. I don't understand why this is, since I'm sitting on a hex with a supply level of 21, am only 5 hexes from a supply source, and am not encircled.

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Post #: 5
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 12:27:17 AM   
Meyer1

 

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
Status: offline 		Readiness can't go lower than 33%, this is the minimum. Maximum is 100%, but can't be higher than the supply level.
Not familiar with the scenario, but maybe the enemy interdiction level is affecting that.
You may want to check this, besides the manual:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4387818

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhVdL9ukZa8

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
Post #: 6
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 12:33:47 AM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		The Situation Briefing reads "Enemy interdiction reduces our supply capability by 0%".




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 7
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 2:03:49 AM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		If you are expecting your units to regain full supply in one turn it isn't going to happen. Just to see how long it takes turn off Elmer and run a few turns without doing anything other than clicking end of turn to see how long it really takes. It will help you understand about how long it takes given the conditions put forward in your Situation Briefing.

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Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

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Post #: 8
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 2:10:11 AM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		I did what you suggested (i.e. turn off the AI) and I noticed that supply tends to trickle in around 10% per turn. So you're saying I pushed my units too hard and too fast?

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Post #: 9
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 2:21:15 AM   
gbaby


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2016
Status: offline 		That is correct, but you haven't indicated the supply level for the hexes your units are occupying. Did you go to the map panel and cycle through the "supply view" options? The "trace" view shows supply level for each hex and if your getting 10% per turn, then I'm assuming it is around 10 indicated on the map. Easy enough to check. Being near railroads and roads is best to recover supply.

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
Post #: 10
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 2:27:07 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		In addition to all the good advice already given, I will point out that in some scenarios you may not be able to get out of the red. This doesn't prevent you from carrying on, it only reduces your ability. It depends on the other sides situation and units.

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Post #: 11
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 3:02:23 AM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gbaby

That is correct, but you haven't indicated the supply level for the hexes your units are occupying. Did you go to the map panel and cycle through the "supply view" options? The "trace" view shows supply level for each hex and if your getting 10% per turn, then I'm assuming it is around 10 indicated on the map. Easy enough to check. Being near railroads and roads is best to recover supply.


It's about supply 15–22% depending on which unit.

(in reply to gbaby)
Post #: 12
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 3:19:04 AM   
Lobster


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From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeriousCatNZ

I did what you suggested (i.e. turn off the AI) and I noticed that supply tends to trickle in around 10% per turn. So you're saying I pushed my units too hard and too fast?


Sometimes you have no choice because time is not on your side. You just have to operate in the red and take what you can get. I know the commies had a really crappy time supplying their troops. It can help to read about campaigns before you play a scenario so you get a feeling for what you are up against. It's also a way to learn some history.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 11/29/2017 3:24:14 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
Post #: 13
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 3:50:40 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Most of my FITE opponents, well, at least two of them, always pushed their units until they
were red. Most of them were red. I was the opponent, usually the Soviets and my units were
green and I still got pushed around. Explain that to me.....LOL.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 14
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 1:56:38 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeriousCatNZ

The unit's readiness in my saved game is actually substantially higher than the supply level. I'm currently on Turn 34 of the Tutorial (i.e. Korean War 50-51) scenario. My Chinese units have 33% readiness but only 1% supply. I don't understand why this is, since I'm sitting on a hex with a supply level of 21, am only 5 hexes from a supply source, and am not encircled.

Dump the .SAL file here for the old salts to have a look; would be interesting to see the FSDE and more info.

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 15
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 4:48:12 PM   
gbaby


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeriousCatNZ

quote:

ORIGINAL: gbaby

That is correct, but you haven't indicated the supply level for the hexes your units are occupying. Did you go to the map panel and cycle through the "supply view" options? The "trace" view shows supply level for each hex and if your getting 10% per turn, then I'm assuming it is around 10 indicated on the map. Easy enough to check. Being near railroads and roads is best to recover supply.


It's about supply 15–22% depending on which unit.


Then this sounds about right. You are getting 50% supply recovery, or that is what it appears to be. It is the old way.

One of the new supply enhancements is the new extended supply option, which I don't know if you have it on or not, but even if on, the scenario has to setup for it (threshold other than 0).

What has been referenced with the new supply rules is "removal of the 50% limit on Unit Supply Recovery per turn". I'm not sure if this means for every scenario regardless if the new extended rules are being used (option turned on and/or scenario threshold set other than 0).

Don't know what your play options are set to, but something to experiment with.

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
Post #: 16
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 5:13:34 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Dump the .SAL file here for the old salts to have a look; would be interesting to see the FSDE and more info.


Please see attached.


Attachment (1)

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Post #: 17
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 5:59:34 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
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From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SeriousCatNZ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Dump the .SAL file here for the old salts to have a look; would be interesting to see the FSDE and more info.


Please see attached.


Will have a look at it now before you Kiwi have breakfast and me a snooze ;)

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 18
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 6:04:53 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		OK, be specific; which PRC unit in question?

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 19
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 6:09:17 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Only the five in the upper right have any supply at all.
That's the way it looks to me.

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 20
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 6:41:18 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Only the five in the upper right have any supply at all.
That's the way it looks to me.

Yep, Onkel Larry... the others are cut off for sure; hence the black dot(s)... (not the pirate black spot), but... they ain't getting Chop-Suey or fortune cookies for sure.

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 21
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 7:48:47 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Only the five in the upper right have any supply at all.
That's the way it looks to me.

Yep, Onkel Larry... the others are cut off for sure; hence the black dot(s)... (not the pirate black spot), but... they ain't getting Chop-Suey or fortune cookies for sure.

Klink, Oberst


That, my friend, is what we call a pocket. Zones of control have cut off all supplies. Any unit killed in there will not put any equipment into the replacement bin. They will all be totally destroyed. Best to find a way to get them linked up to the supply net and try to save what you can. Or let them die a glorious death holding up enemy units so others in your army can do what they will.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 11/29/2017 7:50:26 PM >

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 22
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 9:11:55 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

That, my friend, is what we call a pocket. Zones of control have cut off all supplies. Any unit killed in there will not put any equipment into the replacement bin. They will all be totally destroyed. Best to find a way to get them linked up to the supply net and try to save what you can. Or let them die a glorious death holding up enemy units so others in your army can do what they will.


I know what a pocket is, obviously they are totally lost. I'm referring to the units outside of the pocket. Even units within the pocket used to be in supply when they weren't in a pocket but never regained supply status.

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Post #: 23
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 9:14:29 PM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

OK, be specific; which PRC unit in question?


The units circled in red.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by SeriousCatNZ -- 11/29/2017 9:23:49 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 10:12:08 PM   
gbaby


Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2016
Status: offline 		Still does not look like a problem to me. Your units are only going to get 10 supply per turn, as you stated they are getting.

Now I might be so wrong on this, not knowing the behind the covers of TOAW IV, but in previous versions you would get only 50% supplies as your seeing.

However, with the new extended supply rules, I believe this has been changed to 100% supplies received. Now I "assumed" that meant enabling the new supply rules for extended supply and this would take effect, regardless whether the scenario is using extended supply or not, so even set to 0 (as previous version scenarios would have by default), no extended supply, but you get 100% supply due to having extended supply option enabled.

Of course, I could be completely wrong, which is normal for me. But if it is correct, and you do not have extended supply enabled, you will see what you are getting, 10 per turn (50% of values shown).

On the other hand, I just might be making a fool of myself, again.

< Message edited by gbaby -- 11/29/2017 10:13:19 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/29/2017 11:34:16 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		If they are adjacent to a cooperative HQ unit they will get an increase of 50%. Again, it will take time to get your supply level up. It always does. You really need to read the manual concerning all supply considerations.

HQ Bias Effects
The level of resupply possible for a unit increases by
50% if a cooperative Headquarters unit is located
with or adjacent to a unit. See Cooperative Units
(8.6.1)

Also:

Other Supply Considerations
If a unit moved (from one location to another) in
the previous Turn, its Resupply Level is reduced by
33%

And:

9.1.7.5. Supply Consumption Costs
Land Movement consumes 1 supply point per
movement point expended (this is modified by the
Supply Costs of Movement Rate parameter (see
8.5.2)). However, Naval, Embarked, and Air Units
do not expend supply when moving.
Attacking consumes 10 supply points per
combat round. Defending consumes 10 supply
points per combat round. Ranged units directly
assigned to combat consume 10 supply points per
combat round. Ranged units that cooperatively
support at half strength consume 5 supply points
per combat round. Note that if the attacker fails
any of the Assault Ratio checks (see 13.20) then
defender supply costs can drop significantly. Also,
the Naval Attrition Divider scales naval combat
supply costs. Air units set to Air Superiority or
Interdiction missions pay no supply for combat.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 11/29/2017 11:44:53 PM >

_____________________________

http://www.operationbarbarossa.net/

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein

Q: What do you call a boomerang that doesn’t come back?
A: A stick.

(in reply to gbaby)
Post #: 26
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/30/2017 5:03:03 AM   
SeriousCatNZ

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/18/2013
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Status: offline 		The unit I'm looking at has it's unit supply level at 5%, yet the formation report indicates the formation supply is at 75%.

The problem I'm finding with this scenario is that inexplicably, my combat power approaches nil after some threshold is reached. For example, I was blitzing my way through the South Korean and UN forces, then suddenly, my units are all useless at attacking and defending. This literally happened in one turn. The same thing happened to the Chinese. I was blitzing through the UN forces, destroying 2 stacks per turn, then suddenly even though my Chinese units were at health green their attacks became completely ineffective at high odds.

Why is this happening?

I'd be particularly interested in hearing about others' experiences with the same scenario, especially in replicating the initial North Korean advance to the Pusan perimeter, the UN push back, then the UN 'bug-out' from the Yalu River and Chosin Reservoir.

(in reply to gbaby)
Post #: 27
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/30/2017 7:28:59 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Korea 50-51 you say? I'll take a look under the hood and see what I can find out
and give you a full report.

(in reply to SeriousCatNZ)
Post #: 28
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/30/2017 7:39:35 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		I thought I'd play as the Communists against the computer and right off the bat I've found a terrible problem:
The railroad destruction chance is 100% so everytime you step on an enemy rail you break it and the auto rail
repair chance is 1% which means it isn't going to happen, don't count on it. And from what I can tell there's
no NKPR RR engineers so there's not a whole lot of rail getting fixed and if you don't have the game option for
"high supply" ON then you're probably running out of supply really really fast. Lemme push some units around
and see what else I can find.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 29
RE: Unit Readiness Recovery? - 11/30/2017 7:45:09 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Another thing I've found is that there aren't a whole lot of trucks assigned to these units. Even if they dig in at the
end of the turn to lend their trucks to the higher HQ to use to enhance the supply flow, they aren't going to make a lot
of difference. Flow of supply is probably enhanced very little. This is the first turn and the interdiction amount and
the enhance of supply hasn't ( probably ) been calculated yet. Or if there are numbers showing they are probably wildly
inaccurate.

I'll push some more units around and see what else I can find.




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Post #: 30
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