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New to this game looking for information - 12/25/2017 7:38:16 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

I recently purchased Tigers On The Hunt and I'd like to broaden my understanding of what lies underneath the surface.

In the past I have played board games such as Panzer Blitz which somewhat matches scale with TOTH.

I have read the game manual but I don't see a lot of the hidden mechanics which would be useful for planning out moves.

I don't see things such as;
Unit firepower
Unit range
Does firepower and range get modified at a certain distance?
Does firepower get effected by type of target?
Unit defense
Unit movement

Perhaps there is a mod that allows units to display these values, but is there a recommended mod for displaying unit values?

Also unseen are things such as how terrain really effects the game.
What factors determine things such as line of sight. For example; in a tutorial someone stated that a unit would be out of line of sight if behind 2 hill hexes. (Didn't see this in the manual)
There is another rule in regards to the woods but it was mentioned in passing.

As far as game mechanics itself I would like to see things such as concealment of a stationary unit in cover (prior to this unit firing) but it doesn't appear the game works this way. It doesn't appear that ambushes would be effective, but I might be missing something.

It would be nice if there was a guide that compiled all of this information. All terrain and unit specific information in one guide.

Would there be a place where this could be found?

Post #: 1

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/26/2017 8:25:44 AM

fuselex

Posts: 788
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline

hi immped64
A mod I use is the VASL one . There are a couple of SL/ ASL ones as well which will show firepower , range and moral on infantry units.
A couple will display AFV movement points . They can be found in the Mods and scenario section under submitted mods.
Personal choice to which mod you use.
When you download the mod just paste the terrain file from the mod into the matrix -tigers on the hunt - graphic folder . Make sure you copy the original and keep it safe somewhere.
Infantry firepower is halved when firing over it`s normal range , but it can only fire up to double its range.
This also applies to support weapons such as light, medium . heavy machine guns.
This is a very basic answer , scenarios can be limited to a visibility of 2 hexes .
Even a nice heavy machine gun with a 16 hex range , can be limited to a 2 hex firing range if the scenario designer
desires it :)

This will not answer your question but maybe a step in the right direction.

< Message edited by fuselex -- 12/26/2017 1:22:24 PM >

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 2

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/26/2017 9:52:14 AM

rico21

Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline

Three tips:
1- play the filling, you want to run your unit towards the goal but your instinct tell you that the enemy heavy machine gun will stop you.
2- you are the advice of fuselex which has the quality of being very nice but very often loses its parts.
3- You are the advice of up844 who wins the majority of its parts, the only problem is that it's due to luck.
I hope I helped.

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 3

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/26/2017 7:56:23 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

Fuselex: Thanks for the advice; I have successfully applied the Advanced Squad Leader Mod. I can see the counter values, but I'm not clear what the meanings are. It looks like the leaders have a different display than their troops.

You helped me understand weapon ranges better.

(in reply to fuselex)

Post #: 4

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/26/2017 8:00:50 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

Rico: Yes; I have tried pushing my troops hard to get the victory objective but did get mown down by machine gun fire.

I can't get past the 1st tutorial.

(in reply to rico21)

Post #: 5

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/26/2017 8:19:18 PM

Richie61

Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

I am bias since I did the mod, but the Squad Leader mod uses the same data as the stock game/ manual and it's easier to learn than the ASL counters unless you know the ASL data.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4036287&mpage=2&key=�

quote:

ORIGINAL: immped64

Fuselex: Thanks for the advice; I have successfully applied the Advanced Squad Leader Mod. I can see the counter values, but I'm not clear what the meanings are. It looks like the leaders have a different display than their troops.

You helped me understand weapon ranges better.

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 6

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/26/2017 10:39:46 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

Richie: I'm thinking that the screenshot that you attached was from the original Squad Leader. Those units did not show any unit values as the Advanced Squad Leader Mod does show. If these values match up to the real game statistics then I'm certainly good with keeping the values even though they might be somewhat hard to understand. This is something that can be learned.

I guess this game does a lot to mimic the mechanics of the SL and ASL board game. It would be strange if they were identical, yet at that point it would make a lot of sense to place those statistics on the units.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I have a great curiousity for what the actual unit values are. From my best guess the game would determine dice driven results that are applied to the actual unit values themselves. The values would have to be obtainable in one way or another.

It's too bad that the game manual doesn't just list all of the units and their values to put the question to a rest.

If the ASL Mod tiles do match up correctly with the game, at least that gives a good idea of the unit capabilities, so it would be quite helpful.

(in reply to Richie61)

Post #: 7

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 4:36:00 AM

Richie61

Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

Deleted.

< Message edited by Richie61 -- 12/27/2017 5:05:54 AM >

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 8

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 6:12:36 AM

fuselex

Posts: 788
Joined: 8/2/2014
Status: offline

hi Immped
Scenario 1 using the VASL mod.
Forgive my horrible drawing :).
1- SS unit 6-5-8 .
Firepower of 6 , range of 5 hexes . morale of 8
2- officer 8-1
Morale of 8 , the second number -1 is the modifier applied to different actions in the game , such as directing fire,
making morale rolls when broken . The lower the number the better . Woods have a low terrain modifier +1 so the -1
bonus from the officer should cancel out the benefit of being in woods but only if officer is directing friendly
fire . That's a very broad description of it.
3- light machine gun
Fire power of 3 . range of 8.
At long range it can hit the US troops ( providing line of sight is ok , but the firepower would be halved ) :(
4. Fallschirmjager . 5-4-8
Firepower of 5 . range of 4 . morale of 8
Don`t know if that is the info you are after .Please don`t laugh at my drawing :):):)

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Richie61)

Post #: 9

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 2:21:13 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

Fuselex: That does describe what was confusing to me. It is different than the Panzerblitz which I used to play a little. PanzerBlitz was Attack and Range on top row and Defense and Movement on bottom row.k

Tigers on the Hunt brings in Leader units which is a great addition, but all the numbering (from ASL mod) was confusing. Knowing what it actually means is quite helpful.

Thanks for your help!

(in reply to fuselex)

Post #: 10

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 2:22:33 PM

Richie61

Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

I still think it's easier for a non ASL person to learn the game using the stock counter data (pages 55 thru 57 in the manual) if they don't know the ASLSK rules. If you know the ASLSK rules, then the ASL counters are the way to go.

Here is stock counters vs ASL.

< Message edited by Richie61 -- 12/27/2017 2:25:37 PM >

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu

(in reply to fuselex)

Post #: 11

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 4:38:23 PM

Hailstone

Posts: 666
Joined: 1/19/2016
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

I had to dust off my old ASL rulebook binder to re-acquaint myself with some of the rules and background mechanics of the game. It really helped with the more subtle aspects and I highly recommend doing a google search for ASL playing aids to get a better idea of things.

(in reply to Richie61)

Post #: 12

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 5:53:22 PM

rico21

Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline

You can also play without fog of war to see the AI playing and that will help you at the beginning to play your first parts by copying the AI then you will develop your own techniques and you will be able to criticize the AI of Peter when you will start to win.

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 13

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 6:01:27 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

Richie: I'm sure I'm missing the obvious but at face value the ASL units seem to give a lot more pertinent information than the base counters. They plug in values for Attack value, range and morale (and the leader's modifier). The base counters don't show any of this.

Hailstone: If the ASL manual plugs in some of the missing details to this game I would certainly like to check this out.

(in reply to Hailstone)

Post #: 14

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 7:08:54 PM

Richie61

Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

immped64,

If you know the ASL system, then yes the ASL counters and data work well. If you don't know the ASL, than the stock game data works too.

From the manual:

quote:

Leaders:
Leader�s morale is represented by a letter in the lower left side of the counter as well as his rank. A letter (rank: Major) represents
the best morale while letter D (rank: Corporal) represents the lowest morale. NOTE: For simplicity purpose, all leader ranks are
standardized across all 4 nationalities. Leader�s Leadership bonus is represented with stars, the more starts a leader unit has; the better
its leadership bonus will be.

Morale is represented with number of stars on the Squad/Half Squad/Crew counters. The better the morale the more
number of stars is present on the counter (no stars means lowest morale). Leader�s quality is represented by his rank. The
higher the rank the better the morale. The better the morale the easier it is for a unit to recover from broken, pinned state.

Squad, Half-Squad and Crew have inherent Fire Power value. Fire Power is represented with a letter on the bottom left side
of the counter. A letter represents the best firepower while letter H represents the lowest firepower. + Sign after the fire
power letter indicates Assault Fire and provides bonus for units firing on the move in Advancing Fire Segment. NOTE: Leader
counter does not have inherent Fire Power value and can fire a weapon (example machine gun but without Rate of Fire).

Fire Range is not displayed on the counter, to view fire range of a personnel unit, click on the fire range button on the game
toolbar.

What you really need to read about and understand is how the game turn is divided into two parts, and each part is comprised of 8 segments.
You need to understand how and what what you can and can't do in each segment. This is key and this is the ASL (ASLSK - starter kits) work.

You can buy the ASL rules 2nd Edition for $80, but seems like a lot if you don't play ASL IMO.

I've got hundreds of dollars invested in ASL and I am way behind most people that are involved in ASL.

< Message edited by Richie61 -- 12/27/2017 7:10:59 PM >

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 15

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 7:39:59 PM

Richie61

Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

You can also watch a few of these basic ASLSK videos. Good stuff and relates to TotH.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e_d46Q2dbc

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu

(in reply to Richie61)

Post #: 16

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/27/2017 8:26:29 PM

immped64

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/21/2017
Status: offline

Richie: That was an exceptionally done video for explaining what is on the ASL counters as well as some terrain explanations.

If the game's values match the counter values I think the ASL mod will be a great reminder for what goes into play.

(in reply to Richie61)

Post #: 17

RE: New to this game looking for information - 12/28/2017 12:45:42 AM

Richie61

Posts: 584
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline

I figured these might help you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: immped64

Richie: That was an exceptionally done video for explaining what is on the ASL counters as well as some terrain explanations.

If the game's values match the counter values I think the ASL mod will be a great reminder for what goes into play.

_____________________________

To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.

Sun Tzu

(in reply to immped64)

Post #: 18