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Oil for France - Re-org

 
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Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 5:47:59 PM   
PeteGarnett

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/6/2015
Status: offline 		In my current game, having played several games with oil, I cannot follow why France is unable to use any oil for re-org.

The fleet is in Oran and plenty of ground units in France itself need to re-org but despite having convoys in place (mostly CW) I cannot get the oil window to bring up any units to be re-organised. In the preliminary prod planning I have tried both saving an oil point in Oran & tried leaving oil in Mosul unused.

I know I cannot use CW oil as non co-op powers but I lent the Oran one to France & Mosul is french territory (France has not fallen yet - it's summer 1940).

Any ideas what is wrong please? I suspect I am missing something!

Cheers
Peter

< Message edited by PeteGarnett -- 12/29/2017 6:13:08 PM >
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RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 6:31:36 PM   
PeteGarnett

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/6/2015
Status: offline 		.

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RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 7:00:35 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		An oil resource France is receiving in trade does not become French controlled until the production step, which is after the re-org step. So if France has zero oil at the re-org step, oil dependent units can not be re-organized. This is different than for powers that actually control an oil producing hex (CW, USA, USSR, Germany at start of Sep/Oct 39 turn), who can trace a supply line to such a hex and use it to re-org oil dependent units immediately.

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RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 7:06:38 PM   
PeteGarnett

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/6/2015
Status: offline 		OK but what about the oil from Iran / Mosul - France has always had that. If I leave as unused I still cannot use it?

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 4
RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 7:26:58 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		If you had it saved in a hex before the current re-org phase. The oil that arrives in S/O 39 can be used for re-org in N/D 39 only if saved. The oil arriving in N/D 39 can not be used for re-org until J/F 40.

Note also that a French hex holding an oil-dependent unit you wish to re-org must be able to trace a supply line of any length to the location of a French controlled saved oil resource point. Often, the French can choose to save their oil coming in from Iraq, in Syria. A supply can be traced to there via both the East & West Med (and considering applicable overseas supply rules, including an optional one), OR around the Horn of Africa and through the Red Sea to a port such as Suez, connected by rail to a French hex in Syria.


It is tricky to manage the Allied economies at times. A good way to go for the Allies is for the CW to receive an Oil from Persia and save it at Suez on the first turn. On the second turn, the CW can loan an oil to France and deliver one from Suez to Damascus. They can also quite easily deliver one from the Trinidad/Port-of-Spain hex to the French port of Martinique using just one convoy point. Doing both will probably give France enough of a cushion to use all of their HQs, air, and re-organize a lot of their Fleet, should they need to do so all on one turn.


Edit to add: the western Allies can't announce any Lending / Trade Agreements on the first turn because the only active Allied Major Power at the start of Sep/Oct 39 is China.

< Message edited by brian brian -- 12/29/2017 7:30:48 PM >

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RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 7:30:32 PM   
PeteGarnett

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/6/2015
Status: offline 		Thanks - as I said at the start I suspected it was something I had missed.

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Post #: 6
RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 7:33:46 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		It is a bit of an odd mechanism construct, and requires planning by the player. Sometimes it helps to remember one of the more forgotten rules in the game, which is the very first rule, #1.1 - "We have arranged these rules in sequence-of-play order."

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RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 7:38:57 PM   
PeteGarnett

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/6/2015
Status: offline 		Good point.

Still struggling with the Iran oil resource - been part of trade agreement with France from start of the game.

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Post #: 8
RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/29/2017 9:16:38 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteGarnett

Good point.

Still struggling with the Iran oil resource - been part of trade agreement with France from start of the game.


Oil received in a trade agreement have to be saved first, before you can use it next turn, due to the order in which the rules are written.

Apart from that, there is also the possibility that France cannot get a supply line towards Syria:

You cannot trace a supply path into a sea area that contains:
• an enemy CV, SCS or aircraft unit with an air-to-sea factor;
• unless it also contains a surface naval unit, or aircraft unit with
an air-to-sea factor, (SiF option 11: convoy, TRS, or AMPH
only) controlled by any major power or minor country at war
with that enemy unit.

So, if Italy is at war with France and not with the CW, the oil out of Syria can only be delivered by French convoy points if the Italian fleet is at sea...


< Message edited by Centuur -- 12/29/2017 9:18:02 PM >

_____________________________

Peter

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RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 12/30/2017 6:18:21 PM   
jboldt007


Posts: 207
Joined: 4/20/2017
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Thanks - by coincidence I asked the same question yesterday in WIF School. It’s the sequence of play- not a specific rule, I was forgetting. I had come to the conclusion that the trade oil for Italy and France etc. need to be saved first then they can be used next turn for re-organization- which it turns out is the case. Getting oil help to France is tricky. Interesting note re: Suez.

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Post #: 10
RE: Oil for France - Re-org - 1/7/2018 7:22:30 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

Thanks - by coincidence I asked the same question yesterday in WIF School. It’s the sequence of play- not a specific rule, I was forgetting. I had come to the conclusion that the trade oil for Italy and France etc. need to be saved first then they can be used next turn for re-organization- which it turns out is the case. Getting oil help to France is tricky. Interesting note re: Suez.

If it is any consolation, this rule gets missed by almost everyone at some time or another. Bitter experience is the best teacher?

Personally, I have investigated bug reports about this at least a half dozen times. After an hour or so of investigation, I remember the rule. These days I tend to remember it earlier and save myself a lot of time.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to jboldt007)
Post #: 11
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