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RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/2/2017 2:52:30 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olorin
Where do you think I could save a 1 or 2 million?

That's no brainer - aircraft losses
Japanese plane in 1945 would only consume supply once in its lifetime - when it goes on the offensive mission :)

(in reply to Olorin)
Post #: 121
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/2/2017 8:39:38 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

... especially if you don't change research lines once initially created in 1941, ... and get lucky with India.


Correct ... and this is where playing the AI is a real difference maker ... either India or OZ is on the list and I can generally plan to hold it for +12 months. Big hi/supply boost to the economy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

However, I think the problem is simply pilots. I doubt you will be able to field decent enough pilots to take advantage of the plane builds.

Again, I don't have a house rule on re-sizing FP groups as Andy AI has +60 exp pilots graduating non-stop.




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Post #: 122
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/3/2017 12:45:44 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
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From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

... especially if you don't change research lines once initially created in 1941, ... and get lucky with India.


Correct ... and this is where playing the AI is a real difference maker ... either India or OZ is on the list and I can generally plan to hold it for +12 months. Big hi/supply boost to the economy.



INDIA FACTORIES-rd start running later on (1944-45) but if you conquer INDIA (not neccesary tricomalee) you will have BOMBERS per TUTTI

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 123
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/3/2017 1:28:40 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Do any of you JFB's tend to accelerate R&D for your carrier torpedo and dive bombers or would you consider the gain too minimal for the cost in materials?


Getting rid of the Val is of paramount importance. Don't research or even build the D3A2-this is not worth the effort. Even the D4Y1 is a significant step forward, with a 500kg bomb at 6 hexes and a much improved cruising speed. The D4Y4, with the 800kg bomb is the real end goal here. Instead of scratching BB paint with D3A1 250kg bombs, the 800kg can mission kill a BB with a single well-placed hit. I'm pleased if I can bring the D4 line into production in late 1942.

The B5N2 is serviceable until the B6N1 shows up. The latter with its much improved cruising speed is certainly a worthwhile endeavor. B6N2 may or may not be worth extra research efforts.

_____________________________


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Post #: 124
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 12:09:17 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		It's 8 Nov 1942. The J1N1-C Irving came online 1 Nov but it's still being displayed in blue? I'm guessing here but is it because none have actually been built or have none been built because it's still blue? What am I missing?







Attachment (1)

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Post #: 125
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 1:44:04 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		You have this day to switch them back into r&d should you wish to. One day only.

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Post #: 126
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 1:45:08 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
B6N2 may or may not be worth extra research efforts.


Check the engine for the two torp planes...that usually makes going for the 2nd a wise choice.

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 127
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 1:47:47 PM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You have this day to switch them back into r&d should you wish to. One day only.


I forgot to add, it's been like this since the 1 Nov so this is not the answer. If I change to another production a/c and back it works.

< Message edited by Chris H -- 11/4/2017 1:50:58 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 128
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 1:56:10 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		can you still switch the factory back into r&d of another plane?

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 129
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 2:07:46 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You have this day to switch them back into r&d should you wish to. One day only.


I forgot to add, it's been like this since the 1 Nov so this is not the answer. If I change to another production a/c and back it works.



I just had this happen. If you are still researching a plane, research factory not at 100% yet, and it comes online it will take a few days to become a production factory for that model. Can still change to another production model.

"few" as in the larger end of few. It may not have normalized until a plane was produced.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/4/2017 2:28:28 PM >

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Post #: 130
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/4/2017 11:08:06 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

can you still switch the factory back into r&d of another plane?


Yes. I have full control over switching to production or research and changing to the new a/c results in the normal colour.

This pic shows the last few turns, It's now 9 Nov (turn 338). The a/c factory full repaired t328. It came online on it's due date 1 Nov (T330). At this time it suddenly generated 2 research point when it should have started to produce.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 131
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/5/2017 1:11:25 AM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

can you still switch the factory back into r&d of another plane?


Yes. I have full control over switching to production or research and changing to the new a/c results in the normal colour.

This pic shows the last few turns, It's now 9 Nov (turn 338). The a/c factory full repaired t328. It came online on it's due date 1 Nov (T330). At this time it suddenly generated 2 research point when it should have started to produce.







That's similar to what happen to me. I clicked on it, but I did not change anything and it eventually started producing.

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 132
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/5/2017 2:50:38 AM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I think it is working as normal...with the month rollover.

Eventually it will produce a plane, just bad luck so far.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 133
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/5/2017 6:49:26 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I think it is working as normal...with the month rollover.

Eventually it will produce a plane, just bad luck so far.



It's a pain. As it's only a small factory I'll manually change it but I will have to re-build back to 10.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 134
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/6/2017 8:02:32 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
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From: Hitoeton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gmtello

Beginner question once u start a campaign there are multiple rd factories some available in few months and some later. I understand that the date refers when the factory starts producing so is it a good idea to stop repair of the planes u don't desire or change them to a dif plane? 2 some people advice to put 5 factories size 30 to work with rufe. The. Factories jpn start with have 9x0. Do u have to expand it to 30 from 9? I am a bit lost ( help please)


if you enlarge rd factorys you expend more engines..its easy

(in reply to gmtello)
Post #: 135
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/6/2017 8:35:36 PM   
alimentary

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke
if you enlarge rd factorys you expend more engines..its easy

Engines are only consumed by an RD factory if that factory is fully repaired and generates a research point and there are at least 500 engines in the relevant pool. In this case, one (plane's worth of) engine(s) is consumed and one additional research point is generated.

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 136
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/6/2017 8:55:34 PM   
rustysi


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From: LI, NY
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quote:

In this case, one (plane's worth of) engine(s) is consumed and one additional research point is generated.


Just for clarity multi-engine A/C still use only one engine when adding an advancement point to R&D.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to alimentary)
Post #: 137
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/10/2017 5:12:40 PM   
gmtello

 

Posts: 350
Joined: 12/23/2014
Status: offline 		If the factorie rd once repaired start producing the aircraft then u should change the model investigated just before the arrival time in order to keep producing research points of the next desired aircraft and not lose the research factory and let it transform in a production factorie. Is this correct?

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 138
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/10/2017 7:28:58 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Exactly. Assuming, of course, that you WANT to R&D the next plane in line. Sometimes I'll stop a research factory, allow it to convert and produce when I've gone "far enough" down a research chain.

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Post #: 139
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/10/2017 11:02:01 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Exactly. Assuming, of course, that you WANT to R&D the next plane in line. Sometimes I'll stop a research factory, allow it to convert and produce when I've gone "far enough" down a research chain.

For me, that "Some times" would be "Many times". There are a number of lines where I don't see the benefit of continuing RnD, I simply wait for them to appear 'naturally'.

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Pax

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Post #: 140
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/12/2017 4:22:54 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline 		This is an important point many forget.

If you do ZERO R&D in your game, you will still get every AC Japan can or would produce on its historical date or planned production date for those in mid 45+. Obviously these dates can be changed in the Editor.

So if you want planes earlier, just skip R&D entirely and just have 44/45 planes show up whenever you want

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 141
RE: Understandings rd factories - 11/13/2017 6:46:50 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
So if you want planes earlier, just skip R&D entirely and just have 44/45 planes show up whenever you want

Yeah, can recommend.
Japan Nasty AI does this, and I tell you it's no fun to face Frank-r in 42

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 142
RE: Understandings rd factories - 12/9/2017 11:57:27 PM   
Chernobyl

 

Posts: 444
Joined: 8/27/2012
Status: offline 		This is a very good thread for newbie information. I think I actually understand most of it!

Although I look at both Tojo and Tony and I can't say I like what I see, I recognize that you guys have a lot of experience so I value your opinions. I think I'll hold my nose and choose Oscar Ic, Tojo (is the 2x40mm model any good or is 2 accuracy really 2% accuracy?) and research Frank etc.

My newbie eyes tell me that the Sam isn't much better than the A6M8, but it seems most players think Sam is a substantial upgrade. So I'll go for Sam as well.

Shoutout to Lowpe, whose painful Soviet AAR I have been reading.

Thanks to PaxMondo for many informative answers. Although I will criticize one thing. What's with your avatar? That girl has a very strange face!

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 143
RE: Understandings rd factories - 12/10/2017 8:55:38 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Liebestod
Although I look at both Tojo and Tony and I can't say I like what I see, I recognize that you guys have a lot of experience so I value your opinions. I think I'll hold my nose and choose Oscar Ic, Tojo (is the 2x40mm model any good or is 2 accuracy really 2% accuracy?) and research Frank etc.

My newbie eyes tell me that the Sam isn't much better than the A6M8, but it seems most players think Sam is a substantial upgrade. So I'll go for Sam as well.

Fun starts only with later models of Tony(Ki-100 is great bomber killer) and Tojo (IIc is decent for midwar). Don't know if 2 really represents 2% but 2 is really bad yes.
As for Sam look on speed and climb vs A6M8. Speed is of paramount importance. Most late war Allied fighters are around 400 so they can run wild among 350-ish A6Ms, running away and catching up when needed. Climb helps too
quote:

ORIGINAL: Liebestod
Thanks to PaxMondo for many informative answers. Although I will criticize one thing. What's with your avatar? That girl has a very strange face!
That's Saori Hara.

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 144
RE: Understandings rd factories - 12/10/2017 9:33:05 AM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Liebestod

This is a very good thread for newbie information. I think I actually understand most of it!

Although I look at both Tojo and Tony and I can't say I like what I see, I recognize that you guys have a lot of experience so I value your opinions. I think I'll hold my nose and choose Oscar Ic, Tojo (is the 2x40mm model any good or is 2 accuracy really 2% accuracy?) and research Frank etc.

My newbie eyes tell me that the Sam isn't much better than the A6M8, but it seems most players think Sam is a substantial upgrade. So I'll go for Sam as well.

Shoutout to Lowpe, whose painful Soviet AAR I have been reading.

Thanks to PaxMondo for many informative answers. Although I will criticize one thing. What's with your avatar? That girl has a very strange face!



The Tojo is underrated by those who do not make much use of it, in my opinion. The IIa is a nice bridge to the Frank, and the IIc remains a very good CAP fighter into the late war because of its good climb. With radar, the IIc can bring more numbers to altitude than other fighters, including Frank. CAP is only helpful if it can reach the altitude of the raid in the time allowed, and Japanese radar is never very good. The Oscar is serviceable against early war P40s and P39s, but all models of the Oscar are outclassed by everything else the allies have.

The Tojo IIb and the Tony 1D are good heavy bomber killers, and all models of the Tony perform adequately against fighters: the Tojo IIb, not so much because of its poor accuracy.

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 145
RE: Understandings rd factories - 12/11/2017 3:05:04 AM   
Chernobyl

 

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Status: offline 		Damn I had a huge post almost ready and I closed my browser.

Basically I want to know what reasonable RESEARCH factory quantities are good. I'm thinking of Scenario 1/2 with PDU ON and realistic research OFF.

New to the game but here are my best guesses for research factories only, ignoring engine production and currently available aircraft production:

Mandatory:

Frank-a (4/44): 11x30 (Switch 7 to production and 4 to research of Frank-r)
Tojo IIa (9/42): 7x30 (6 to production and 1 to research Tojo IIc)
Judy D4Y1 (4/43): 5x30 (1 for production of D4Y1 and 4 for D4Y4 research, turn some off once you replace your carrier squadrons)
A6M Rufe (4/42): 6x30 (Maybe 1 for production if you like Rufe itself, 5-6 for A6M8 research)
Jill B6N1 (5/43): 3x30 (Perhaps 2 for B6N1 production and 1 for B6N2 research)
A7M Sam (9/45): 7x30 (A huge investment because this plane is 9/1945 = 46 months and factories repair in 63% of that time = 29 months before they are giving their full research bonus. But people say it's worth it....)

Optional:
Tony: ?
George: ?
Jack: ?
Oscar IIa (11/42): (Not sure if it makes sense to research Oscar in a PDU ON game)

Helen Ia (4/42): 1x30 (Switch to research Helen IIb. You start with 14 undamaged research factories so you might as well bump it to 30. Most people seem to say use Sally/Betty all game but Helen IIb is a nice armored Sally with better guns so I say it's worth it given the factories you start with)
Emily 1: 1x30 (switch to Emily II research)

Please correct me if any of these are awful or if I am missing any plane that absolutely needs to be researched.


< Message edited by Liebestod -- 12/11/2017 3:11:08 AM >

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 146
RE: Understandings rd factories - 1/4/2018 4:35:59 PM   
AndriahBlashkovich

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 12/15/2017
Status: offline 		One thing I don't understand, I understand how it all works in theory, but have an issue with the interface -

If I want a batch of A6M2N R&D factories to convert into a batch of A6M5 R&D factories - should it be set to 'upgrade' or 'keep' ? What exactly happens with them when either of those modes are set?

(in reply to Chernobyl)
Post #: 147
RE: Understandings rd factories - 1/5/2018 3:43:11 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Liebestod

Damn I had a huge post almost ready and I closed my browser.

Basically I want to know what reasonable RESEARCH factory quantities are good. I'm thinking of Scenario 1/2 with PDU ON and realistic research OFF.

New to the game but here are my best guesses for research factories only, ignoring engine production and currently available aircraft production:

Mandatory:

Frank-a (4/44): 11x30 (Switch 7 to production and 4 to research of Frank-r)
Tojo IIa (9/42): 7x30 (6 to production and 1 to research Tojo IIc)
Judy D4Y1 (4/43): 5x30 (1 for production of D4Y1 and 4 for D4Y4 research, turn some off once you replace your carrier squadrons)
A6M Rufe (4/42): 6x30 (Maybe 1 for production if you like Rufe itself, 5-6 for A6M8 research)
Jill B6N1 (5/43): 3x30 (Perhaps 2 for B6N1 production and 1 for B6N2 research)
A7M Sam (9/45): 7x30 (A huge investment because this plane is 9/1945 = 46 months and factories repair in 63% of that time = 29 months before they are giving their full research bonus. But people say it's worth it....)

Optional:
Tony: ?
George: ?
Jack: ?
Oscar IIa (11/42): (Not sure if it makes sense to research Oscar in a PDU ON game)

Helen Ia (4/42): 1x30 (Switch to research Helen IIb. You start with 14 undamaged research factories so you might as well bump it to 30. Most people seem to say use Sally/Betty all game but Helen IIb is a nice armored Sally with better guns so I say it's worth it given the factories you start with)
Emily 1: 1x30 (switch to Emily II research)

Please correct me if any of these are awful or if I am missing any plane that absolutely needs to be researched.



Nothing horrible. Your RnD plan needs to fit your overall strategy. There is no ideal plan, there is only the plan that best supports your strategy.


_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 148
RE: Understandings rd factories - 1/6/2018 4:54:23 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

If I want a batch of A6M2N R&D factories to convert into a batch of A6M5 R&D factories - should it be set to 'upgrade' or 'keep' ?


There's a 'wire chart' hereabouts somewhere which will show you the progression of development for each Japanese A/C frame. They don't always go as you might expect. WRT to settings IIRC 'upgrade' will move the model to the next on the line of said chart. 'Keep' will not move to the next incremental frame. These options are the same in both the production and R&D aspects of aircraft. I would rarely turn 'upgrade' to 'keep' in the R&D aspect, except maybe when I no longer wished to develop the line. For example when I get to the A6M5c, since I personally don't develop the A6M8. Under the 'Air' aspect I might select 'keep' for say the A6M3a, even when the A6M5 production begins, because I want more of the M3a's due to their range.

All of this is subjective, as Pax says above, and will depend on your style of play. Hope some of this helps. I'll try to find a link to the wire chart later if I have time, otherwise look for it under the search engine.

Ciao

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 149
RE: Understandings rd factories - 1/6/2018 6:44:48 PM   
AndriahBlashkovich

 

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Joined: 12/15/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysiI'll try to find a link to the wire chart later if I have time, otherwise look for it under the search engine.

Ciao


Tried looking for it, but didn't yield much results, would be much obliged if you could give me some hints on what to look for exactly.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 150
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