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Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation

 
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Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/8/2018 12:31:53 PM   
jediael

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 3/28/2016
Status: offline 		Hi all,

I am trying to replay Pelton's turn 1 move to learn more about the game.

However, I seem to struggle with the notation in his hand written notes.

It starts out with:
252 51,72 167_45_31 51,73 DA 167+31 HA then move 45 to 52,74 HA Sec

I understand this to mean:
- Move 252th to 51,72
- 167th, 45th, 31th do a deliberate attack on 51,73
- 167th and 31th do a hasty attack (on what?)
- Move 45th to 52,74 and do a hasty attack on the sec unit (in 51,75)

Here are my problems:
Instruction 2 and 3 contradict each other.
252th later on in the instructions is supposed to move to 54,65, but that's not possible as its initial move only leaves it with very few MP.

Any help much appreciated.


< Message edited by jediael -- 1/8/2018 12:32:35 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/8/2018 2:57:16 PM   
lowsugar

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 2/19/2017
Status: offline 		When you clear fort hex 51,73 move 167th, 45th, 31th to that hex and DA 51,74. Division will retreat east, so HA it with 167 and 31. Then move 45 to 52,74 and HA sec reg. Then 62 to 54,74 and 56 to 55,74 and DA Kovel.

(in reply to jediael)
Post #: 2
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/8/2018 5:43:05 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Warning!
First, as a newbie .. this game is overwhelming ..Those that have jumped into a campaign game have quit not to be seen again ..biting small chunks is more palatable for sure .. I was blessed to be a part of a team game who has a master as the supreme commander, which has increased my enjoyment and ability to understand the game tremendously
1) Pelton's guide is from earlier versions of this game. Subsequent versions may make you think differently. For example how quickly ports repair and are used have changed since that guide ..
2) Pelton had no appreciation for airpower. The movement of staging bases for example are critical.
3) Although the guide provides a script to understand one choreographed opening .. there are a lot of considerations that Pelton scoffed at ..for example Riga .. There is a strategy (see 8MP Axis AAR) to not take Riga and not extend the Lvov pocket southwards until turn 3.

There are other AAR's that show openings that you might also consider..


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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to lowsugar)
Post #: 3
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/20/2018 1:28:36 PM   
nigedaly

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

When you clear fort hex 51,73 move 167th, 45th, 31th to that hex and DA 51,74. Division will retreat east, so HA it with 167 and 31. Then move 45 to 52,74 and HA sec reg. Then 62 to 54,74 and 56 to 55,74 and DA Kovel.


You clear fort hex 51,73 with the first division you move. HA is sufficient. Although Pelton's notes state that to be 252. Inf.Div., I found that 292. Inf.Div can achieve this, leaving 252. free for the later move to 54,65.

Crackaces is correct to issue a caution. Pelton's opening is one of many possibilities. My thinking is that only by exploring all these possibilities can you develop your own and thereby improve your game. As the opening moves are considered so important, I like to experiment in the "Road to" scenarios and the limited "Operation Barbarossa" one before committing my forces to a campaign, in which logistics will play a very large role.

(in reply to jediael)
Post #: 4
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/20/2018 9:44:45 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		I think Pelton’s opening also emphasizes the panzer breakout but does not emphasize the clearing of rail lines as an example.
One experiment on opening moves since HQBU has gone up in cost is to motorized an infantry division or 2 from Model and send them forward with the 4th Pz group.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to nigedaly)
Post #: 5
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/21/2018 7:47:13 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
One experiment on opening moves since HQBU has gone up in cost is to motorized an infantry division or 2 from Model and send them forward with the 4th Pz group.


I think it is impossible to move a motorised division into pending friendly terrain.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 6
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 1/21/2018 4:01:55 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces
One experiment on opening moves since HQBU has gone up in cost is to motorized an infantry division or 2 from Model and send them forward with the 4th Pz group.


I think it is impossible to move a motorised division into pending friendly terrain.




Cannot be next to the enemy at the time of being motorized, have expended MP's, move into enemy hexes (flip hexes) or engage in combat ..But for example a unit can attack the enemy unit move them and then motorize his friend . then that motorized unit follow say a mechanized unit that is flipping hexes
one case is the 256th (?) that starts attached to a pzXXX ...

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 7
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 7/23/2018 11:46:04 PM   
brucemo

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/23/2018
Status: offline 		He uses DA (shift click) and HA (normal).

There are errors and confusing things. The first time he mentions three units it is very hard to figure out what he's doing. He's not consistent in general and sometimes says things like "clear SA and FA" and it gets kind of free form.

Mostly it's not too bad.

Sometimes he uses arrows to indicate HA.

Sometimes he gets very vague and at the end he describes strategies in vague sentences.

If that one image is all you found, when you get to the end of the specific stuff you will discover that you haven't moved AGN. I can't remember if he moves AGC but it's very much lacking.

I tried to get through that and I found it to be very lacking in general as a way to understand his opening. All I learned from it is that attack order matters.

If you are wanting to follow along with something and learn, MarauderPL's 37-part YouTube video is good. It uses improved CV and I don't want to use that but stuff still works. Sometimes he talks about reinforcing a unit, and that's not something you could derive yourself from watching him play, it's because he's had a hard time making an attack in previous play throughs and knows he has to beef up. That's my conclusion at least.

I also noticed that the Romanian Panzer has 50 MP on turn 1 in his video but in my world it has 40 MP. Aside from that you can do approximately what he does in that video and it's not too hard to follow. I'm a noob and I'm concerned that his pockets wouldn't hold up against people.

It seems to me that sometimes Riga is easy and sometimes it is hard, but his experience with Riga in that video was so awful that almost anything you do after turn 1 will be as good or better, even if you don't bother to attack Riga.

I'm finding it hard to learn to play based upon AAR screen shots but that video series is an okay place to start.

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 8
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 7/24/2018 8:59:58 AM   
MarauderPL

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 4/8/2016
Status: offline 		Deciphering the ancient scripts, found in some dusted old tome in a forbidden wing of a museum. What did the old ones knew? Is it still viable? Who bestowed the knowledge upon them... Could it be.. aliens? :D

(in reply to brucemo)
Post #: 9
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 7/24/2018 9:56:40 PM   
brucemo

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 7/23/2018
Status: offline 		That's totally what this is. And even worse, the screen shots that go with this are a fuzzy blurry mess. None of this would be a big deal but it's linked in that list of game resources that new people (like myself) are likely to come across.

I appreciate the effort but this is probably not a good tutorial.

(in reply to MarauderPL)
Post #: 10
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 7/25/2018 10:35:45 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		The library has a forbidden wing? Why did no one tell me!

Re the opening: Here is a better screenshot of the opening: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2754001&mpage=3

To familiarize yourself with the T1, I think it is better to take a good opening from the forum (AARs fromMichael T, Hardluckyetagain, Tyronec for example) and try to copy it, instead of following a written script.



< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 7/25/2018 10:36:17 AM >

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The Library of Gary Grigsby's War in the East resources.
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(in reply to brucemo)
Post #: 11
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 7/25/2018 11:38:50 AM   
MarauderPL

 

Posts: 134
Joined: 4/8/2016
Status: offline 		Well, a lot of things regarding Pelton on this forums is if not strictly forbidden, then at least discouraged to explore ;) So it fits the theme allot, I'd dare to say :D

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 12
RE: Pelton's Turn 1 Move, Help with notation - 7/25/2018 8:04:01 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarauderPL

Well, a lot of things regarding Pelton on this forums is if not strictly forbidden, then at least discouraged to explore ;) So it fits the theme allot, I'd dare to say :D


Let me be quite clear that this is not the case, smiley face or not. Pelton was not banned for his unquestionable skill as a player but because he broke the Forum rules on too many occasions. I will only invoke my power as a Moderator in two respects - firstly comments regarding the ban itself and secondly (and in my view more importantly) any discussion of Pelton as an individual. As he is no longer a Forum Member and has lost his ability and right of reply this is not acceptable behaviour.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to MarauderPL)
Post #: 13
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