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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/7/2018 9:20:40 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm a little bit in the dark rearding John's capabilities in CHina and Korea. I think he's staggering in China and about to stagger in Korea. But for all I know there are vast resources for him to call forward. I don't think so, but I don't know (one of the Fog of War things I get to enjoy due to the fact that I haven't played as Japan).

I'm about to shift most of the Western Allied army units in northern China to Korea. I'll let the Chinese handle China with an assist from Allied bombers.

I don't know but he can't have much. If he did, you would have seen it. Even if he did what is he supplying it with? The world has moved on

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13411
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/7/2018 9:38:48 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		I'm shocked that John might have any supply left in China.......

He, at least for the moment, has easy access to Fusan / Pusan to bring supply over to support his troops in Korea, but even that shouldn't last too much longer.


_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

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Post #: 13412
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/7/2018 9:41:28 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Since your already existing ground troops in Korea seem to be holding OK, I am assuming the massive ground reinforcements you're bringing to Gunzan are intended for a major land offensive there. It would certainly be nice to take Fusan and block any more supply or reinforcements from the home islands.

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Post #: 13413
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/7/2018 9:42:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		He might have a little. Recall that about ten days ago I let a convoy (probably a supply convoy) transit the Yellow Sea northbound. I didn't want to reveal that CVE Death Star was posted right there, for reasons I deemed far more important than supply to Korea. So he has some supply, but probably not enough and diminishing quickly. I'll contest any further effort on his part to bring in supply via ship.

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Post #: 13414
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/7/2018 9:44:06 PM   
Canoerebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
Since your already existing ground troops in Korea seem to be holding OK, I am assuming the massive ground reinforcements you're bringing to Gunzan are intended for a major land offensive there. It would certainly be nice to take Fusan and block any more supply or reinforcements from the home islands.


Yes, I'll have offensive plans in Korea. Enemy divisions will be a top priority, as will Moppo and Keijo. Next would be Fusan.

I'll try not to let ground activity draw down supply enough to affect Strategic Bombing needs, so if that becomes an issue I'll defer to the latter. But I think there's enough to sustain both until auto victory is achieved.

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Post #: 13415
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 1:24:22 AM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I'm shocked that John might have any supply left in China.......

He, at least for the moment, has easy access to Fusan / Pusan to bring supply over to support his troops in Korea, but even that shouldn't last too much longer.



It appeared to me that a big tidal surge of supply pulsed through China the turn right after the rail was opened in Korea. I suspect a couple of convoys brought enough to meet needs. However, the IJ conducted offensive maneuvers that had to consume a lot of supply. So the IJ are likely vulnerable for isolation. We will see once the Allies commence operations if a (-) supply shows up in combat reports.

_____________________________

"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know. It's what we know for sure that just ain't so"

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Post #: 13416
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 6:26:52 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/19/45

Asia: John is regrouping in Korea. I think the threat to Gunzan is basically nil now. In China, the Japanese may be retiring from Tsinan, and the Allies are making major progress in eliminating the once-stout Kukong Pocket (and picking up lots of points for enemy army losses).

But the most important thing by far: The Herd is only 15 hexes from Gunzan. In three or four days, the air war (Operation Unicycle) commences against the Home Islands from close by.




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Post #: 13417
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 7:02:37 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
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Status: offline 		Why would you want Strat mode for units sailing to Korea from Tsingtao and not use amphib TF transport instead? Strat mode wastes time changing out/into combat mode and restricts loading/unloading to port facilities (how large is Gunzan port? how much nav support in both it and Tsingtao?). The only benefit of Transport TF is 20% less cargo/troop space, but you have enough ships on hand I believe. I assume you do not plan to use RR strat mode immediately for units when landed in Korea with that situation on hand.

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Post #: 13418
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 7:13:52 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		I really must say you have defeated him in detail with good and sound strategic desicions. Really a textbook example on how to win the war by focusing on whats important and crucial, while ignoring what is secondary and irrelevant.

You have used your forces where they were needed and in accordance with a sound strategic direction, while he has had difficulty, it seems, to decide when and where to fight. The impression I have gotten is that he really did not know what to do with his forces after defeating you in Sumatra. Overconfident, it seems, he wasted many carriers in the CV battle around Kawajelein. And then again, he wasted the remaining ones by not committing them to battle.

He should have drawn a red line somewhere. Decided to make a stand. Instead it appears as if he suffered from the ”put a frog in boiling water”-syndrom. I dont know how he reasoned deciding not to fight for the Philippines, or Formosa. But clearly that is when he lost the war. If he tries to blame this defeat on ”the invincibility of the allies” that is disrespectful to you and a white washing of his own misstakes.

Sun Tzu-level victory Canoe. I lift my hat.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13419
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 7:22:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I'm interested in reading John's AAR to see if his Peanut Gallery urged him to implement an extreme points-saving strategy to postpone defeat as long as possible. Perhaps it was just his strong disinclination to take on Death Star. I think he should have combined his carriers and struck when Death Star was proximate to a nest of his airfields instead of suffering a long, lingering defeat.

A few months ago, John Dillworth said it seemed like both of us were happy to ignore the other while carrying on about our own business. He was right! At that time, John brought KB up to the Aleutians on an evacuation mission. I ignored him to concentrate on the things I wanted to do. That kind of thing has happened a lot. I felt strongly that this made sense - that the Allies should focus on achieving the position from which to achieve final victory and that I wouldn't go off chasing every opportunity that might detract from the main mission. Sometimes my failures to strike probably drove readers crazy. And there are plenty of readers who are convinced I could have and should have won the game much earlier. But I stuck to what I could envision - avoiding the trap I fell into when I accepted Nemo's advice to detach units from Sumatra to invade Malaya.

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Post #: 13420
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 7:25:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
Why would you want Strat mode for units sailing to Korea from Tsingtao and not use amphib TF transport instead? Strat mode wastes time changing out/into combat mode and restricts loading/unloading to port facilities (how large is Gunzan port? how much nav support in both it and Tsingtao?). The only benefit of Transport TF is 20% less cargo/troop space, but you have enough ships on hand I believe. I assume you do not plan to use RR strat mode immediately for units when landed in Korea with that situation on hand.


I'll take another look at it. My main reason is to expedite loading at Tsingtao so that Death Star or CVE Death Star is there (providing cover) as briefly as possible. Ideally, I'd like CVE DS to be in the neighborhood of Tsingtao no more than one or two days.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 13421
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 7:41:11 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		I need to be careful in my response here so I dont break any opsec. But I can say this: your victory comes from identifying a path to victory, make plans accordingly and follow those plans without getting sidetracked by irrelevant targets, no matter how tempting. The game for the allies is, afterall, about defeating Japan. If this can be achieved without a huge CV-battle, so much the better, no matter how cool the screenshots would be.

There are several different ways Japan can be defeated in this game. One variant is to get enough airbases close enough to the Japanese cities to win by strategic bombing. This is the path you chose somewhere in 43 I guess. And this path to victory does not require the recapture of Singapore or Palembang or Rabaul, the Auletians or whathaveyou. Nor does it require sinking his CVs. All those things are irrelevant. You know this, and played accordingly.

It seems your opponent was trying to defend against all the ways Japan can be defeated. This made him vunerable to your specific chosen strategy because he who defends everything defends nothing. At least that is what it seems like looking at the strategic map without going into any of his troop dispositions.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13422
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 8:18:55 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Hortlund, the other issue (IMHO) is that fans of both AARs naturally like to call for aggressive action and a nice "big bang" CV battle because it's really great entertainment. Part of the job of both players is to read such comments and suggestions with suitable skepticism and a constant eye toward the overall strategic mission.

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Post #: 13423
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/8/2018 11:36:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Wife, Oldest Son and I are going to a restaurant that has televisions that will be turned to the Georgia-Alabama game. I think Georgia has a chance but I think Alabama is certainly the favorite.

I was present the last time Georgia won a national championship. That was in the Sugar Bowl vs. Notre Dame in January 1981. I was a sophomore at Georgia at the time. That was 37 years ago....which leads me to believe there's usually only one place to go after winning a national championship. Down. Unless, that is, you're talking Alabama.

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Post #: 13424
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 4:39:50 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Oof.

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Post #: 13425
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 1:32:54 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/20/45

DEI: I'm pretty sure the Herd is carrying enough supply to see things through to victory, but LOC operations down south continue efficiently...and I think John has new plans to try to interdict in some fashion.






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 1/9/2018 1:33:04 PM >

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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 1:43:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/20/45

Singers Campaign: The Allied advance continues, mostly comprised of British and Indian units.




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Post #: 13427
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 2:01:36 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/20/45

Asia: Allies operations in China and Korea moving forward....and Death Star and the Herd maybe two days out of Gunzan.




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Post #: 13428
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 2:18:31 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		Any thoughts to setting some aircraft on low level night naval strike to hit those supply TFs?

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13429
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 2:34:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't had any luck with night strikes against any shipping. At this point, I forego it because it seems inefficient - taking up supply and causing fatigue with little or no return.

Same thing with aerial mining of ports. No return at all on the investment. Better to devote the 4EB to daylight raids vs. significant targets.

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Post #: 13430
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 3:22:22 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		And utilizing your abundant surface assets to chew up his merchants......

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

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Post #: 13431
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 3:27:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		When the right opportunities exist. But sending combat TFs into the Sea of Japan won't work as long as John controls Fusan and Moppo. No need to risk valuable assets going after cheap assets in waters dominated by enemy air.

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Post #: 13432
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 3:41:39 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
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Status: offline 		Condolences on the game.

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Post #: 13433
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 3:45:11 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 4:27:41 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I haven't had any luck with night strikes against any shipping. At this point, I forego it because it seems inefficient - taking up supply and causing fatigue with little or no return.

Same thing with aerial mining of ports. No return at all on the investment. Better to devote the 4EB to daylight raids vs. significant targets.


I only air mine ports that are in range of my DDs so that I can keep enemy sweepers away otherwise it is just a waste of time. However, air mining enemy bases near an offensive or defensive operation is a viable tactic. But not if you can't keep minesweepers away.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

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Post #: 13435
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 4:51:59 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/21/45

The Herd: A roster of the Herd's supply TFs, which will arrive at Gunzan tomorrow. I think this is somewhere around 1.5 million supply. I detached xAKs carrying 300k supply to Shanghai (so that not all eggs in one basket). Additional supply went to Luzon and Formosa.






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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 6:50:24 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm interested in reading John's AAR to see if his Peanut Gallery urged him to implement an extreme points-saving strategy to postpone defeat as long as possible. Perhaps it was just his strong disinclination to take on Death Star. I think he should have combined his carriers and struck when Death Star was proximate to a nest of his airfields instead of suffering a long, lingering defeat.


I haven't really read in his AAR.

Here's the thing though...

Having a carrier battle would, most likely, postpone defeat more than not having a carrier battle. If he sinks 4 of yours, even if he loses 7 of his (which are worth less VPs than yours) and more planes (you'd still lose a lot of planes) he's still traded at less than a 2:1 margin for you - and whatever that difference is, that's how many VPs you now need to make up for.

The question, really, is whether doing that is more beneficial points-wise than raiding. At some point closer to the 2:1 ratio, raiding is better because it doesn't involve the permanent loss of assets. However, it's also permanent loss of assets for you... but at some point for you, if there's no KB lurking about then you don't need so much concentrated air cover for an invasion. LBA strikes are more fragmented than CV strikes.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 13437
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 6:52:25 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

Condolences on the game.


I saw this while scrolling back up and thought, "Wait, did John resign?"

Shame.

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Post #: 13438
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 6:58:28 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm interested in reading John's AAR to see if his Peanut Gallery urged him to implement an extreme points-saving strategy to postpone defeat as long as possible. Perhaps it was just his strong disinclination to take on Death Star. I think he should have combined his carriers and struck when Death Star was proximate to a nest of his airfields instead of suffering a long, lingering defeat.


I haven't really read in his AAR.

Here's the thing though...

Having a carrier battle would, most likely, postpone defeat more than not having a carrier battle. If he sinks 4 of yours, even if he loses 7 of his (which are worth less VPs than yours) and more planes (you'd still lose a lot of planes) he's still traded at less than a 2:1 margin for you - and whatever that difference is, that's how many VPs you now need to make up for.

The question, really, is whether doing that is more beneficial points-wise than raiding. At some point closer to the 2:1 ratio, raiding is better because it doesn't involve the permanent loss of assets. However, it's also permanent loss of assets for you... but at some point for you, if there's no KB lurking about then you don't need so much concentrated air cover for an invasion. LBA strikes are more fragmented than CV strikes.


My thinking was this: If John managed to take out a number of Allied carriers, even at great expense to himself, I figured it would slow me down considerably. A smaller Death Star would be more susceptible when approaching major enemy airfields. Possibly it might have limited or eliminated Allied options to penetrate deeply against Formosa or China, at least for some meaningful period of time.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 13439
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/9/2018 7:15:32 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		3/21/45

Asia: Barring a last-minute dagger to the heart (something akin to a 41-yard TD pass in overtime to win a national championship....), the Herd will reach Gunzan tomorrow with 1.5 million supply and about three divisions of reinforcements (with more reinforcements coming).

It will take several days to offload enough supply to fully fund massive air operations from Gunzan airfield and a ground campaign in the southern end of the peninsula, but hyper-war (Operation Unicycle) is about to commence. The 4EB are rested and in good shape. Three new B-29B squadrons (15 planes each) are also on the scene.





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Post #: 13440
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