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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome

 
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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/4/2018 11:14:42 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

Strategically, I am worried about the absence of the Soveit Guards formations, and I wonder where they will be sent. It looks as if the Soviets are switching more and more to prepare defenses in oart of the center, so I guess there will be a massive influx of Soviet formations in the south.




Here is where the Guards are for Inf & MtInf making up almost 600,000 of the Soviet Army. (Sorry had to "YELLOW" out the location for National security reasons)




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 1/4/2018 11:21:38 PM >

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 2:02:38 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/7/2016
From: England
Status: offline 		My jaw just dropped HYLA....... Holy moly!!

How are you getting so many guards I thought there was a 10% limit in the current state of the war?
I imagine you should be somewhere around the 400 inf division mark at turn 31 without forming them yourself so wouldn't you need 510 inf divs to have that many?

Unless all forces irrespective of size count as a part of the total of the 10% when making new guard formations?

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 272
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 2:34:15 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

My jaw just dropped HYLA....... Holy moly!!

How are you getting so many guards I thought there was a 10% limit in the current state of the war?
I imagine you should be somewhere around the 400 inf division mark at turn 31 without forming them yourself so wouldn't you need 510 inf divs to have that many?

Unless all forces irrespective of size count as a part of the total of the 10% when making new guard formations?


There is a limit and broken down by category and year %. By the way there is no limit on Cavalry that can be guard, at least that was what it used to be and I haven't seen a change. Lets just put it this way, my TOE for the Army as a whole is close to 8 million ( you can find this number in the "Logistics Phase Event Log" under Army status by the way).

Even without the +1 I attack a great deal and almost always have 35+ Guard divisions going into the German Summer Offense. I'm not a big Corps Cavalry person and don't build them balls to the wall as others do(they actually suxxor on multiple fronts for me in what I want not to mention their high Arms cost). They do have their purpose but I normally never build many (I'm sure Dinglir was curious what I was doing). Yeah yeah yeah I hear all the soothsayers about how great Corps Cavalry is but that path I don't walk.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 3:06:08 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

My jaw just dropped HYLA....... Holy moly!!


I imagine you should be somewhere around the 400 inf division mark at turn 31 without forming them yourself so wouldn't you need 510 inf divs to have that many?



I have 597 Divisions and Brigades at current turn and that is after I disbanded some in the last few turns. This total does not include Mountain Division, tank brigades, and cavalry.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 1/5/2018 3:07:11 AM >

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 3:14:05 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
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From: England
Status: offline 		Righteo brigades and divisions both count for the same block of guard creation I assumed incorrectly they were counted seperately

You never stop learning with this game

Thanks man

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Post #: 275
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 3:20:09 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Righteo brigades and divisions both count for the same block of guard creation I assumed incorrectly they were counted seperately

You never stop learning with this game

Thanks man


One of the book worms can definitely answer that for you but that is how I remember it. You are correct you never stop learning & I am still learning things too. Soviet is my weakest side to play too having concentrated on Germany from 2010 - 2016 :( Oh well took a step to the dark side.


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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 8:06:24 AM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
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Status: offline 		All the Guards have 95%+ ToE, hah. Dinglir is up for a harsh fight it seems :D

OOB of 8 million at this point of the war is really crazy.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 3:11:07 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
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Status: offline 		Its really not crazy if you look at the game situation-the German summer offensive was a failure and captured nor isolated any major soviet cities. Basically took much less ground than historical which also resulted in fewer soviet encirclement losses. All those extra soviet manpower points not take added up to a ton of extra manpower in 1941...all those little dot towns of manpower add up when your at 100:1 for manpower adds in 41.

Not to be a downer but the German player should just throw in the towel, as this game should lead to a soviet win 43-44.

This really is the biggest problem with this game---the entire game more or less resolves around how successful or unsuccessful the German 1941 offensive. If the Soviets do to well it very quickly goes towards a soviet win, if the Germans to well then its extremely hard for the soviets to stay in the game...is very little margin for error for a good game unless the 1941 assault at least makes historical gains.

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Post #: 278
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/5/2018 6:25:51 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Its really not crazy if you look at the game situation-the German summer offensive was a failure and captured nor isolated any major soviet cities. Basically took much less ground than historical which also resulted in fewer soviet encirclement losses. All those extra soviet manpower points not take added up to a ton of extra manpower in 1941...all those little dot towns of manpower add up when your at 100:1 for manpower adds in 41.

Not to be a downer but the German player should just throw in the towel, as this game should lead to a soviet win 43-44.

This really is the biggest problem with this game---the entire game more or less resolves around how successful or unsuccessful the German 1941 offensive. If the Soviets do to well it very quickly goes towards a soviet win, if the Germans to well then its extremely hard for the soviets to stay in the game...is very little margin for error for a good game unless the 1941 assault at least makes historical gains.


It has been up to Dinglir to continue or not continue, so far he has continued. I believe it is more of getting experience than anything at the moment that he carries on, but he will have to answer that. I have offered many times a discontinuation with no hard feelings what-so-ever on whatever decision he makes.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 6:49:55 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77
OOB of 8 million at this point of the war is really crazy.


This is not what HardLuck was saying. The TOE of the Red Army is close to eight million, the actual OoB is at 6.3 million.



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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 7:09:08 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45
Its really not crazy if you look at the game situation-the German summer offensive was a failure and captured nor isolated any major soviet cities. Basically took much less ground than historical which also resulted in fewer soviet encirclement losses. All those extra soviet manpower points not take added up to a ton of extra manpower in 1941...all those little dot towns of manpower add up when your at 100:1 for manpower adds in 41.


I disagree with that one - the Axis advances are actually more or less historical in this game.

From north to south:

1) In front of Leningrad, I have taken less terrain than the Axis did historically
2) Between Moscow and Leningrad, the Soviets had advanced (from the north) to just east of Velikie Luki.
3) Southwest of Moscow, the Soviet winter attacks had reached the terrain no more than four or five hexes east of Smolensk.
4) Orel, Kursk and Kharkov were barely in Axis hands at this stage of the war, much like in this game.
5) North of the Sea of Azov, the Axis lines followed the Mius river, exactly as they do right now.

You may well argue of whether this is more or less than the historical gains by the Axis, but claiming that it is "much less ground than historical" is, in my humble opinion, wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45
Not to be a downer but the German player should just throw in the towel, as this game should lead to a soviet win 43-44.


I will not be doing that.

I certainly do not share your feeling of utter gloom over the Axis, and I will be surprised if the Soviets manage a win in 43 or early 44. I have no experience with the late war, so I abstain from having opinions of late 44 or 45. But for now, I am actually still playing to win.

But even if I fail to do that, there are also the Decisive, the Major and the Minor objectives to play for. For now, I am enjoying the game and learning a lot, so I am planning to continue.

I have obviously given HardLuck the same option that he has given me: If he loses interest in the game, he should simply say so, and the game will then end.



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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 7:43:39 AM   
SparkleyTits

 

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Status: offline 		I am with Dinglr on this one

I feel guards are great for sure but aren't decisive so early on in the war they will best used to draw Axis forces and reserves come 42 which will just means Dinglir has less meat on his offensives to work with
Annoying for sure but Dinglir is a competent enough player to plan and prepare for it I imagine meaning ultimately the ball can still be in his court to mess up or shine come 42 it only means it will be more difficult which again is nothing decisive at all

I also think Dinglirs winter was a rather controlled one and that would likley not of been the case if this game was done as mentioned


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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 11:43:55 AM   
Dinglir


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Status: offline 		Turn thirtytwo.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 12:09:04 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

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Status: offline 		Nice move in the centre

I look forward to seeing how the south develops

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Post #: 284
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 2:09:16 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I am with Dinglr on this one

I feel guards are great for sure but aren't decisive so early on in the war they will best used to draw Axis forces and reserves come 42 which will just means Dinglir has less meat on his offensives to work with
Annoying for sure but Dinglir is a competent enough player to plan and prepare for it I imagine meaning ultimately the ball can still be in his court to mess up or shine come 42 it only means it will be more difficult which again is nothing decisive at all

I also think Dinglirs winter was a rather controlled one and that would likley not of been the case if this game was done as mentioned




You are reading Dinglir side of things on the Winter Offense. Very nice write up by the way but what was failed to mention, or I just missed it, was my offense in the Center & South started with extremely long supply lines. It was my intent to gain ground here for a nice cushion come summer. The rest of the offense was just to cause casualties, that is it. I decided to break off attacks in January not because of the stiff defense, but to build up. (Not to mention we are playing random weather and you really don't want to be caught with your pants down as a Soviet player. So preparations began. Was it the right thing to do (shrug).

I was lucky enough to get two (2) Infantry Divisions and an Infantry Regiment(was total 7 German inf regiments) to surrender. Now remember in this area he had the Infantry divisions broken down to cover ground (along with the added benefit of regiments causing ridiculous casualties) so herding these little bad boys are a pain in the azz on extended supply lines.

All in all Dinglir imo did a very good job for the Winter. I believe we both made our objectives now lets see what the summer brings.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 1/6/2018 2:10:34 PM >

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 2:15:11 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I am with Dinglr on this one

I feel guards are great for sure but aren't decisive so early on in the war they will best used to draw Axis forces and reserves come 42 which will just means Dinglir has less meat on his offensives to work with
Annoying for sure but Dinglir is a competent enough player to plan and prepare for it I imagine meaning ultimately the ball can still be in his court to mess up or shine come 42 it only means it will be more difficult which again is nothing decisive at all

I also think Dinglirs winter was a rather controlled one and that would likley not of been the case if this game was done as mentioned




You are reading Dinglir side of things on the Winter Offense. Very nice write up by the way but what was failed to mention, or I just missed it, was my offense in the Center & South started with extremely long supply lines. It was my intent to gain ground here for a nice cushion come summer. The rest of the offense was just to cause casualties, that is it. I decided to break off attacks in January not because of the stiff defense, but to build up. (Not to mention we are playing random weather and you really don't want to be caught with your pants down as a Soviet player. So preparations began. Was it the right thing to do (shrug).

I was lucky enough to get two (2) Infantry Divisions and an Infantry Regiment(was total 7 German inf regiments) to surrender. Now remember in this area he had the Infantry divisions broken down to cover ground (along with the added benefit of regiments causing ridiculous casualties) so herding these little bad boys are a pain in the azz on extended supply lines.

All in all Dinglir imo did a very good job for the Winter. I believe we both made our objectives now lets see what the summer brings.


One part of the offensive began on the Don South East of Voronezh and gained 19 hexes to the Oskel/Torels river. My men had to resort to eating yellow snow on that long supply run.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 2:31:27 PM   
SparkleyTits

 

Posts: 898
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From: England
Status: offline 		My theorem which could be completely wrong of course is that 42 is going to be the year to watch for both of you

Looking forward to it!

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/6/2018 2:51:40 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

My theorem which could be completely wrong of course is that 42 is going to be the year to watch for both of you

Looking forward to it!


You Sir are correct on your theorem :)

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/7/2018 3:59:32 PM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
.... what was failed to mention, or I just missed it, was my offense in the Center & South started with extremely long supply lines.


It is true that the Soviet attacks has been made with long(ish) supply lines. I deliberately spent the latter part of the 41 attacks trying to limit the available railheads between Voronezh and Rostov, in order to force those long supply lines upon you. I did this so that I could put up a weak screen of infantry regiments that would fall back in front of heavy Soviet attacks.

That being said, I was surprised at how much weight you could put into your attack, and you managed to advance quite a lot longer than I had anticipated. A takeaway for me was the amount of movement in those Tank Brigades - even with supply distances around 30MP or more. That surprised me. But at least I was right in the fact that your infantry divisions would not be powerful for long that far from your rail heads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I was lucky enough to get two (2) Infantry Divisions and an Infantry Regiment(was total 7 German inf regiments) to surrender. Now remember in this area he had the Infantry divisions broken down to cover ground (along with the added benefit of regiments causing ridiculous casualties) so herding these little bad boys are a pain in the azz on extended supply lines.


In my limited experience the first two weeks of the blizzard are the most dangerous. During those turns, the Soviets are well supplied and have little fatigue. that translates into some heavy movement points to use in advances. Another takeaway for me was the need to be more careful when planning the initial winter defenses.

I would like to hear from the community what kind of German divisional losses are considered acceptable during the first winter. All in all, I am quite content with only losing 2,33 divisions considering this is my first real challenge when playing the Germans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
All in all Dinglir imo did a very good job for the Winter. I believe we both made our objectives now lets see what the summer brings.


"Unfortunately", I think you also did quite well. I suspect I will se more of those Guards over the summer months.

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Post #: 289
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/7/2018 4:05:29 PM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
Nice move in the centre


I have tried to do those detailed battle reports for a while, hoping to spark a debate on the tactics of the game.

How do other people plan and execute an attack on a defended line? How do they prepare? How do they allocate their air resources to the attack? What factors do they use to decide how many CV must be used in every single combat? The list of questions is endless.

We all get to see those nice little screenshots at the beginning or the end of the turn in all the AAR's. But what were the decisions that made that situation come about? That (to me) is the important question.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/7/2018 7:34:16 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
.... what was failed to mention, or I just missed it, was my offense in the Center & South started with extremely long supply lines.


It is true that the Soviet attacks has been made with long(ish) supply lines. I deliberately spent the latter part of the 41 attacks trying to limit the available railheads between Voronezh and Rostov, in order to force those long supply lines upon you. I did this so that I could put up a weak screen of infantry regiments that would fall back in front of heavy Soviet attacks.

That being said, I was surprised at how much weight you could put into your attack, and you managed to advance quite a lot longer than I had anticipated. A takeaway for me was the amount of movement in those Tank Brigades - even with supply distances around 30MP or more. That surprised me. But at least I was right in the fact that your infantry divisions would not be powerful for long that far from your rail heads.



The tank brigades are heavy pipe hitters if you nurture them from the 1st turn of the game. See the ones under Tolbukin were Tank divisions that converted over to tank brigades and had high experience and morale. All of those saved tank division have two purposes, save the trucks & experienced tank brigades come winter :).



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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/9/2018 7:33:36 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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Status: offline 		@Dinglir: 30MPs distance to railhead gives still full supplies.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/9/2018 8:50:55 PM   
TheFox

 

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Status: offline 		Hi

I thought supply was limited to 20MP and 10 Hexes for full supply to a railhead, otherwise it was reduced cumulative on each of the two conditions?

I haven’t read the recent patches and it had been reduced from 25MP in the past!

It would be useful to know the definitive distances if poss.


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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/9/2018 11:16:40 PM   
ledo

 

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Status: offline 		I think the 20MP is for HQs not individual units. But I'm unsure. Ewald has a breakdown of all the supply calculations somewhere. Check the war room stickied posts if you're interested.

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/10/2018 1:30:50 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


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Status: offline 		@TheFox
if you are interested in the details, have a look at this page, item 1.5. The document linked there explains the supply system in detail.
To make it short, when the unit is in range of its HQ, the position of the HQ (not the unit ones) is taken for the calculation of all supply multipliers. This means that by use of an HQ, the unit comes up to 5 hexagons (the maximum range unit-HQ) closer to the supply source, usually a railhead, compared to the situation without a HQ.



< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 1/10/2018 1:32:27 AM >

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Post #: 295
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/10/2018 7:27:01 PM   
tyronec


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quote:

if you are interested in the details, have a look at this page, item 1.5. The document linked there explains the supply system in detail.

Well worth looking at.
Think it is from before the latest patch ?

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Post #: 296
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/10/2018 8:36:37 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Yes, the document is from 1.10.00/1.11.00. I had no time/motivation to update it so far.
Its all still up to date except that the minimal possible rail modifier has been reduced to 10% from 25% and the axis rail modifier used in the formula has been reduced by 10 until march 1942 IIRC.
(and the HQ BU cost has been increased, but the formulas for this calculation are not treated in the document)


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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/10/2018 11:47:56 PM   
TheFox

 

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From: Berkshire, UK
Status: offline 		@EvK

Impressive and worthy of applause

Thank you

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Post #: 298
RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/11/2018 9:52:05 AM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

@Dinglir: 30MPs distance to railhead gives still full supplies.


I guess this comes from HQ distance & unit distance combined? HQ gets maximum supply when it's 10MP from railhead (20MP the MP supply multiplier is still 100%, but within 10MP of the railhead it can get extra supplies), and the unit needs to be 20MP from the HQ.

If there's shortage of vehicles in the motor pool, you'll get (5*(10MP-distance to supply source)% less penalty from vehicle shortages, that's really a big factor if you're in bad motor pool situation. For example, if you have 100k/200k vehicles available, you'd get 50% supply reduction. Being in the same hex (0MP) with the HQ would however completely mitigate this effect. Anything over 9MP and you'd get the full 50% penalty.

Unit's that have moved will also get a penalty to their received supplies maximum amount, and that's dependant on the distance to the supply source (HQ or railhead). Exact formula is (95-distance to supply source). So the closer they are to HQ, the more supplies they can get.


It's not all that simple :D

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 1/11/2018 10:02:18 AM >

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RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, ... - 1/11/2018 6:49:38 PM   
Dinglir


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Status: offline 		I guess I have to look at my MP calculations again.....

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