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Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/20/2018 10:59:06 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		I'm planning my strategy, tactics and first move as the Japanese. It's scenario 2 and I'm allowed to "fix" damaged factories in the editor. I've never played as the Japanese and have no idea as to the workings of the Japanese economy so any input that could help me would be greatly appreciated. I've played the Allied side in 4 campaign games with mixed results and have decided that I want to give a go with the other side. I feel that I have a good idea of what my targets are and how to go about reaching them for phase 1 of the war. Of course depending on the results phase 2 targets are flexible. Phase 3 will probably result in seeing me getting hammered. My overall goal in playing is always win, lose or draw to offer a good game to my opponent and to have fun while learning.

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768
Post #: 1
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/20/2018 11:05:49 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline 		Read this one first http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2933397

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 2
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/20/2018 12:15:57 PM   
AndriahBlashkovich

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 12/15/2017
Status: offline 		Oh boy, Japanese economy could work as a standalone game. Luckily, you can find tons of guides on this forum, like the one GetAssista linked.

Another important advice, get the WiTPTracker to keep an eye on your economy, it's an invaluable tool for the JFB in you.

And something I'd add, don't rush your development, make a sensible synergy between your industry growth plan, oil and resource centre occupation plan and R&D plan. Hakko Ichi should make things a bit safer in that regard, but it's still worth to keep your appetites in check.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 3
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/20/2018 12:30:51 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I agree, decide how much supply you want to spend per day on manipulating your economy and stick with that. Once a factory is completed, use the freed up supply to work on another. I ended up making a spreadsheet to slowly upgrade portions of my economy and prioritized it. Supply is a hot commodity for the Japanese early in the game. If you eat up too much, you're out of luck. You'll never recover.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to AndriahBlashkovich)
Post #: 4
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/20/2018 4:06:42 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		First let me just say.

Next and most important is listen to that man directly above, and read his AAR!!!!!

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 5
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/20/2018 4:54:16 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Additionally:

Realize the Japanese economy is a game within itself. Its easier to mess it up than get it right, so if you're playing a PBEM as a first run Japanese (something I don't recommend, if you wish 'to offer a good game') player do things slowly. You may not get the economy you want, but it'll less likely implode.

OK for starters, you'll want your total HI production at ~7500, since that's x2 it'll be 15000. I'm pretty sure scenario 2 starts at that level. If so leave it alone. Keep in mind that you will capture some HI sites that'll add to your total as well. I shoot for a 30k/day supply level, and that includes supply you get from refineries. It would be difficult for Japan to go higher with the inputs she can be expected to acquire.

Don't repair damaged/captured refineries, you have plenty of excess in the HI. Do repair oil facilities if you can hold them, safe from attack for a while (about 100 days).

Don't buy Manchurian garrison units out to the bare minimum, 8000, leave a bit extra in there, say about 85 to 8600. This to avoid the unexpected, like device upgrades temporarily lowering the level. In reality that's only abut one less division you'll be able to get out. By the time you get out that many divisions, what's left to get out isn't much worth it. Look especially at each units' artillery component as that is the 'queen of battle'.

Be aggressive in China, but don't be foolish. Keep your losses low and his high. There are tons of resources in China and you will need as much as you can get. This does not mean you need to eliminate China, but you need to leave her prostrate. If you leave her alone by the end-game she will overwhelm you. With this in mind you may wish to make a foray into NE-India, this will help isolate China further. You may need as many a 10 divisions to pull it off, depending on Allied opposition, but for no more than say six months. This is to conquer those bases within range for an airlift. As you reduce China you may then withdraw from these positions. This is totally up to you and isn't 100% necessary as early Allied lift capability isn't that high. Keep in mind that he/she can make a difference early on though if they wish to make the effort. Bombers man be used as transports.

Keep your early aircraft investments and expansions to just what you need, as too much here will drain your already limited supply. You need this to make your early conquests. Don't invest too much into late war planes at this time. You can set your R&D factories up, but don't expand them to their limits as it won't get you much back at this time anyway. Its also an additional suck on your supply.

There are many other considerations, but I could be here all day.

Hope this gives you a few ideas. Don't forget to read as many of the posted 'set up' guides that you can find here.

Ciao

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 6
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/21/2018 1:13:53 AM   
AndriahBlashkovich

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 12/15/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

First let me just say.

Next and most important is listen to that man directly above, and read his AAR!!!!!



Anyone got a link to the AAR in question? :3

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 7
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/21/2018 1:26:19 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		You are allowed to cheat in the editor. Do not do it. "Damaged" factories represent factories that have not been built yet. The game engine uses the damage repair algorithm to also represent the building of factories from scratch, and continuing to complete factories that were under construction. Do not accept the conceit that your are repairing anything. There are in fact no damaged factories, or damaged oil fields or damaged refineries when the game begins. Stay the F out of the editor unless you are trying to create well thought out mods. I sure wouldn't want to be your opponent if you thought it was ok to change things through the editor to suit you.

(in reply to AndriahBlashkovich)
Post #: 8
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/21/2018 12:12:36 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		We agreed to things that we're allowed and not allowed to do. I never would do anything outside of the parameters allowed as it would be cheating both of us.

Good hints, thanks guys.

I think that I'll forgo the factory "repairs" and concentrate on the fighting.

How about airframes and paths to take?

_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 9
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/21/2018 12:30:08 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff
How about airframes and paths to take?

Read these recent threads. Skip all the gamey/legit rants inside
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4354969
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2825013
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4199401

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 10
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/21/2018 3:08:16 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Hi Todd - About airframes and research paths, I believe that researching fighters is the most fruitful course. In particular, I spilt the 80 R&D factories you get in scenario 2 between the Zero line (starting with the Rufe), the Sam, and the Frank line. Experience in our games have shown me these are the best available fighter airframes you get (although the Shinden isn't too shabby either). I allocate 30 to the Zero line, and 25 each to the Sam and Frank.

Build R&D factories to size 30 starting from day 1. Note that you will have to bump the requested supply in each city with an R&D factory to around 4,000 to maintain the 10,000 supply points needed to repair. Your factories will be fully repaired in about 63% of the time until the airframe would become available without any R&D. Also remember to research the Ha-43 and Ha-45 engines so the latter model airframes can have some engines. They fly better that way.

Once your R&D factories are fully repaired, there are two methods that you can use to advance through the airframe line. With a fully repaired R&D factory, you can advance the research through each successive airframe in the line all in one turn without causing the factory to become damaged. For example, looking at the Zero line (A6M2-Rufe -> A6M5 -> A6M5b -> A6M5c -> A6M8) you can advance through the entire line all the way up to the A6M8 in a single turn. In practical terms, that means you could begin researching the A6M8 in late March/early April 1942. With 25 R&D factories devoted to the line, you could have the A6M8 flying by mid-1942. I have never used this method in our games as I think it is too unrealistic. Instead, I prefer the other method which calls for researching each model in the line fully before advancing to the next model. This method takes longer and gives the IJN the A6M8 sometime in mid to late 1943. I like the later method better since it gives Japan a fighter roughly comparable to the Hellcat at just about the same time as the Hellcat becomes available.

Also, check out the thread titled "Understanding R&D Factories" on page 2 of the general forum. In particular, read InfiniteMonkey's post #4. You can learn most everything you need to know about R&D in that single post.

Good luck you LYB!

P.S. - Don't forget you can accelerate ship construction too. That's fun to do!

< Message edited by pws1225 -- 1/21/2018 3:13:52 PM >

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 11
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/21/2018 4:30:28 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		That repairing of factories goes back to the very early release of WITP AE and is not needed in a current and patched game.

Scenario Two is very forgiving to Japan, you are strong, good stockpiles and plenty of potential tank units.




(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 12
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/22/2018 4:58:47 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I don't follow on what OP means by "repair factories" either... repairing R&D factories? That'd be bonkers.

First tip: it's not actually the dark side. It's the cardinal red side (as opposed to the blood red side that is the Soviet icons).

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 13
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/22/2018 9:17:30 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AndriahBlashkovich


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

First let me just say.

Next and most important is listen to that man directly above, and read his AAR!!!!!



Anyone got a link to the AAR in question? :3


Don't need a link, just look at page one of the AAR section. Its right there and still active.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to AndriahBlashkovich)
Post #: 14
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/22/2018 9:30:06 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

How about airframes and paths to take?


You'll need the Oscar and Tojo for the early expansion and a bit after. While this is going on you need to get the Frank research up to speed. Try to get Sam research up ASAP for the Navy, but don't neglect the George. Its not a carrier A/C, but is a good LB naval fighter. As far as other late war models, you can concentrate on them after getting the other stuff up and running. I haven't played scenario 2, but I can tell you what I've mentioned will put enough of a strain on scen1 supply.

If you don't have one get a copy of the 'airframe wire chart', there's a recent thread here that has the link.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 15
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/23/2018 4:43:03 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I forswore the Oscar. I've found the Oscar-Ic to be a good sweeper in early 1942, against Hurricanes and P-40E's, but once I can replace that function with Georges the Oscar is going. I'm not R&Ding any more of those planes, either.

In my first Japan game, I R&D'd all the way to the Oscar-IV, with its cannons. It was very underwhelming.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 16
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/23/2018 8:46:29 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I forswore the Oscar. I've found the Oscar-Ic to be a good sweeper in early 1942, against Hurricanes and P-40E's, but once I can replace that function with Georges the Oscar is going. I'm not R&Ding any more of those planes, either.

In my first Japan game, I R&D'd all the way to the Oscar-IV, with its cannons. It was very underwhelming.


I like the Oscar III and IV. I don't want to waste the already purchased factories and they are good LR escorts. They're also service 1 with armor and the CL 20mm by the end, which are decent. You also can get them quite early.

It just fits how I play to keep some of these producing. Everyone should consider the costs and make their own choices.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/23/2018 8:47:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 17
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/23/2018 9:11:54 AM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I forswore the Oscar. I've found the Oscar-Ic to be a good sweeper in early 1942, against Hurricanes and P-40E's, but once I can replace that function with Georges the Oscar is going. I'm not R&Ding any more of those planes, either.

In my first Japan game, I R&D'd all the way to the Oscar-IV, with its cannons. It was very underwhelming.


I like the Oscar III and IV. I don't want to waste the already purchased factories and they are good LR escorts. They're also service 1 with armor and the CL 20mm by the end, which are decent. You also can get them quite early.

It just fits how I play to keep some of these producing. Everyone should consider the costs and make their own choices.


The Oscar III is right around the corner for me. So far, I have to agree with Lokasenna. It's been a flying casket for me. I am doing the R&D out to the Oscar IV in my AAR though. We'll see. Obvert, my reasoning for seeing through to the IV is the same as yours. We'll see if it is worth it though. I keep looking back to the range, armor and cannons.......and hoping.

Edit: I'll have to check and confirm, but I believe one of the Oscar models is the single model with the highest losses of any model on either side in the game so far.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 1/23/2018 9:13:31 AM >

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 18
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/24/2018 7:33:07 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I forswore the Oscar. I've found the Oscar-Ic to be a good sweeper in early 1942, against Hurricanes and P-40E's, but once I can replace that function with Georges the Oscar is going. I'm not R&Ding any more of those planes, either.

In my first Japan game, I R&D'd all the way to the Oscar-IV, with its cannons. It was very underwhelming.


I like the Oscar III and IV. I don't want to waste the already purchased factories and they are good LR escorts. They're also service 1 with armor and the CL 20mm by the end, which are decent. You also can get them quite early.

It just fits how I play to keep some of these producing. Everyone should consider the costs and make their own choices.


The Oscar III is right around the corner for me. So far, I have to agree with Lokasenna. It's been a flying casket for me. I am doing the R&D out to the Oscar IV in my AAR though. We'll see. Obvert, my reasoning for seeing through to the IV is the same as yours. We'll see if it is worth it though. I keep looking back to the range, armor and cannons.......and hoping.

Edit: I'll have to check and confirm, but I believe one of the Oscar models is the single model with the highest losses of any model on either side in the game so far.


Mine is the Frank-r . It's a healthy mix, though.

I stopped using the Oscar-IV after it died in droves as long range escorts, and the CL cannons on it are just not good enough.

The Ki-100-I is far superior if you want CL cannons, and can arrive around the same time as the Oscar-IV.

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 19
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 6:11:27 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		As everyone else has said, the Japanese economy is a game in itself. You'll find yourself constantly wanting to produce more of X, Y or Z, and finding out that you just don't have enough Supply or HI to do it.

Remember, the Japanese economy is brittle. Expand one factory too much and you might just collapse the whole thing. Expand slowly as was suggested above, and most of all, go in knowing what you want to produce end game. Concentrate on getting to that point, but keep in mind that some factories can not be reduced in size once expanded (engines, shipyards, etc).

Aircraft: I tend to plan for building Tojo or Tony mid-war (they're about the same), with the Frank, George and Sam as the main fighters late war. I also think that for Japanese players, fighters are far more important than bombers due to the fact you'll be on the defensive from mid-43 onward. And I do agree with obvert on the Oscar line, as they do 'busy' the allied CAP when used as escorts for bombers, especially with the low service rating.



_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 20
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 7:51:33 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I forswore the Oscar. I've found the Oscar-Ic to be a good sweeper in early 1942, against Hurricanes and P-40E's, but once I can replace that function with Georges the Oscar is going. I'm not R&Ding any more of those planes, either.

In my first Japan game, I R&D'd all the way to the Oscar-IV, with its cannons. It was very underwhelming.


I like the Oscar III and IV. I don't want to waste the already purchased factories and they are good LR escorts. They're also service 1 with armor and the CL 20mm by the end, which are decent. You also can get them quite early.

It just fits how I play to keep some of these producing. Everyone should consider the costs and make their own choices.


The Oscar III is right around the corner for me. So far, I have to agree with Lokasenna. It's been a flying casket for me. I am doing the R&D out to the Oscar IV in my AAR though. We'll see. Obvert, my reasoning for seeing through to the IV is the same as yours. We'll see if it is worth it though. I keep looking back to the range, armor and cannons.......and hoping.

Edit: I'll have to check and confirm, but I believe one of the Oscar models is the single model with the highest losses of any model on either side in the game so far.


Low durability is it's obvious downfall, and late game mixed with slow speed isn't a great combo. BUT, as an escort I don't care if they die, I care about their manoeuvre letting them make some of the CAP miss and get the escorts through, and for this they've been good.

The Ki-100 is also somewhat disappointing, although it has better durability, I just haven't found it to last much in defensive layered CAP against sweeps. Against bombers it's great, and it's a decent escort too.

For me the Tojo just dropped off in effectiveness after about mid-44 last time through, so I need something else service 1 to be a useful low CAP, escort and multi-use plane. I make both the Ki-100 and Oscar, and still making the Tojo now, but really want a George/Jack for the IJAAF. It's fine if Symon's speed and manoeuvre changes are in use, as the Ki-100 gets a major boost, but without that it's pick your poison.

I've never tried to only produce Franks and Georges. I imagine at some point in 44-45 half my fighters would be sitting on the ground repairing. I've tried to be economically conservative in my current late game but for all of that I'm seeing B-29s get through and my economy taking a hit, so it might be better to front load and have more to battle initial stages of Allied strat bombing. Its all so game dependent there is no easy answer.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 21
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 8:44:57 AM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
As everyone else has said, the Japanese economy is a game in itself. You'll find yourself constantly wanting to produce more of X, Y or Z, and finding out that you just don't have enough Supply or HI to do it.

Remember, the Japanese economy is brittle. Expand one factory too much and you might just collapse the whole thing. Expand slowly as was suggested above, and most of all, go in knowing what you want to produce end game. Concentrate on getting to that point, but keep in mind that some factories can not be reduced in size once expanded (engines, shipyards, etc).

I think it is more of an urban legend that you can suddenly collapse Japanese economy by expanding too much. As much as I would like more mistery surrounding those brave JFBs, economy is not brittle.
Collapse (defined by running out of supply and maybe HI) is a real threat but it is thing of the distand future at the time you are deciding on expansion. The real question is whever collapse will come sooner (in the end of 44) or later. And this is what you are deciding on when expanding.
The only situation you can refer to as "a crash" (which it is not) is the sudden lack of supplies on HI in the first months of 42 with all the expansions and shipping out. Well, you can always turn off some repairs and wait for the industry to produce more supplies (AFAIR ~20k a turn on Home Islands) to fill the hole. Then turn on repairs and proceed.

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 22
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 9:58:39 AM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		Based on my experience, I'd say GetAssista is right about the brittleness of the Japanese economy. For example, I typically expand all my aircraft and engine R&D factories to size 30 beginning on day 1. In both scenario 1 and 2 games I have yet to encounter a supply shortage in the HI. I suppose if a player were to aggressively expand their industry, shipyards, etc. as well it could lead to problems, but I haven't pushed the envelope that far.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 23
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 3:49:43 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I nudge up LI outside of the home islands as well as in Hokkaido and Sakhalin. The resources they use producing supply don't have to be shipped anywhere.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/25/2018 4:21:08 PM >

(in reply to pws1225)
Post #: 24
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 4:06:06 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		I like to cut back on shipbuilding a lot and converting ships from surplus roles to more useful roles is a big thing. In my current game I let Yamato finish construction but it's just parked in the home islands. I've no idea what I'll ever use her for. Musashi has been idled and I don't know if I'll start her back up or when. I've stopped all sub production except for the classes that carry search planes. I'm real stingy with airframe factories but not with engine factories. Exceptions are I converted the Ha-31 factory to something else and I idle the Ha-35 factory whenever I can. I'm sure I'll want an Ha-31 factory in the future at some point, but not now. I try to keep IJN air units out of attrition fights, the planes I can replace but not the aircrews. Make the army air do everything it can. Don't be bombing ground units all the time, it's a complete waste. Bomb airfields and ports when you need to. The keys to this war are shooting down planes and sinking ships. Bomber crews need to be proficient at Naval Attack, Naval Search, and ASW as well as Ground Attack. Training is a more profitable use of time than trying to drop eggs on LCUs.

I forgot to say, Shinano is cancelled. No way she ever gets built. The Unryu class is accelerated.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/25/2018 4:23:11 PM >

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 25
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 4:28:29 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 1302
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline
quote:

The only situation you can refer to as "a crash" (which it is not) is the sudden lack of supplies on HI in the first months of 42 with all the expansions and shipping out. Well, you can always turn off some repairs and wait for the industry to produce more supplies (AFAIR ~20k a turn on Home Islands) to fill the hole. Then turn on repairs and proceed.


This.

This is the one thing that gave me untold headaches until I learned to not overdo it. If you see your supply piles in the HI dwindle, stop factory conversions for a bit, and then restart them one by one, in priority order. If you learn to do this right, the rest is a lot easier.

_____________________________

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(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 26
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 4:29:56 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		You don't need to wait for the Kamikaze rule to trigger to have IJA bombers sink ships, and you don't need to build planes for one-time use until you are desperate.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 27
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 6:27:50 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I forswore the Oscar. I've found the Oscar-Ic to be a good sweeper in early 1942, against Hurricanes and P-40E's, but once I can replace that function with Georges the Oscar is going. I'm not R&Ding any more of those planes, either.

In my first Japan game, I R&D'd all the way to the Oscar-IV, with its cannons. It was very underwhelming.


I like the Oscar III and IV. I don't want to waste the already purchased factories and they are good LR escorts. They're also service 1 with armor and the CL 20mm by the end, which are decent. You also can get them quite early.

It just fits how I play to keep some of these producing. Everyone should consider the costs and make their own choices.


The Oscar III is right around the corner for me. So far, I have to agree with Lokasenna. It's been a flying casket for me. I am doing the R&D out to the Oscar IV in my AAR though. We'll see. Obvert, my reasoning for seeing through to the IV is the same as yours. We'll see if it is worth it though. I keep looking back to the range, armor and cannons.......and hoping.

Edit: I'll have to check and confirm, but I believe one of the Oscar models is the single model with the highest losses of any model on either side in the game so far.


Low durability is it's obvious downfall, and late game mixed with slow speed isn't a great combo. BUT, as an escort I don't care if they die, I care about their manoeuvre letting them make some of the CAP miss and get the escorts through, and for this they've been good.

The Ki-100 is also somewhat disappointing, although it has better durability, I just haven't found it to last much in defensive layered CAP against sweeps. Against bombers it's great, and it's a decent escort too.

For me the Tojo just dropped off in effectiveness after about mid-44 last time through, so I need something else service 1 to be a useful low CAP, escort and multi-use plane. I make both the Ki-100 and Oscar, and still making the Tojo now, but really want a George/Jack for the IJAAF. It's fine if Symon's speed and manoeuvre changes are in use, as the Ki-100 gets a major boost, but without that it's pick your poison.

I've never tried to only produce Franks and Georges. I imagine at some point in 44-45 half my fighters would be sitting on the ground repairing. I've tried to be economically conservative in my current late game but for all of that I'm seeing B-29s get through and my economy taking a hit, so it might be better to front load and have more to battle initial stages of Allied strat bombing. Its all so game dependent there is no easy answer.


That's the difference . I do care if they die... well, if they die before they can kill stuff. That's my experience with Oscars. I stopped wasting good pilots on them, and since I really only use at least decent pilots still... I'll escort with Franks, thanks.

The Ki-100 is better on paper than in practice, yes. I've found the same - it tends to get slaughtered by things like P-47s and Corsairs on sweeps, more so than the Tojo, but at least it's over my own base. I will also use them for escorts - they do better in that role than in sweep defense.

I'd say that my IJAAF fighter force is at least 50% Frank-r. I'm pretty satisfied with how everything is performing. Actually, I have that Tracker open right now. I have (maximum unit size used):

16 Sentai, 1 Chutai, 1 detachment of Ki-84r Frank: 790 planes
12 Sentai, 1 Chutai of Ki-100-I Tony: 604 planes
4 Sentai, 1 Chutai of Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 212 planes
2 Sentai, 2 detachments of Ki-83: 117 planes
2 Sentai, 1 Chutai of Ki-102a Randy: 84 planes
2 Sentai of Oscar-IV: 98 planes (these are exclusively on night CAP, where they'll only be seeing bombers)
3 Sentai of Ki-84a Frank: 49 active duty, 146 training

4 Sentai, 2 Chutai of Ki-27 Nate for training: 286(?) pilots

So you can see that the Ki-100 is my primary CAP plane to fill in for the Franks (which also fly CAP, and occasionally sweep with the Ki-83 as well, which I will use more of as I build up a pool of them). I had actually cycled the Tojo out almost completely, until the Tony started getting shredded. I switched back to a mix and am more satisfied with that. Maybe this turn I'll switch my Oscar-IV's to Tojos, if I can.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 28
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 6:32:08 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Back to the original question(s)...

I will respond and say that I don't think managing the Japanese economy is a "game unto itself." Once you have it set up, it's very easy to simply check on a couple of key indicators every turn and in most cases do absolutely nothing. That will be all of 1943 for most folks, I'd think, plus late 1942 and at least part of 1944. I don't think I touched hardly anything with my production values between June of 1943 and June of 1944. I may have increased some aircraft factories, but that's less a result of the economics than of military necessities. Can't defend the resources without planes, so I don't even consider the cost of the planes.

The key is to be patient. Lack of patience will lead one to overbuild aircraft factories and shipyards. Just be patient and wait for the production to come. You might run out of A6M2's in the pool in early 1942 and be tempted to boost production by 60 so you get 2 more per day, but in a year you'll be sitting there with a factory turned off because your pools are plenty big enough and you'll never use all of the A6M's. Just one example.

That said, in my latest Japan game I've greatly increased naval shipyards instead of merchant shipyards by a slight amount like I did in my first (and still ongoing) game. I had reasons for doing so, but just know that once you understand how it all works you can change what you're doing from game to game pretty easily.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 29
RE: Darkside Newbie Wants Hints - 1/25/2018 7:56:14 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

but keep in mind that some factories can not be reduced in size once expanded (engines, shipyards, etc).


Its wasteful, but if in dire need you may turn them off. So no, you don't want to over expand.

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 30
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