How exactly does Supply work?

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How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 7:15:23 AM

OpT1mUs

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Can someone explain to me , in simple terms, exactly how does supply work in TOAW4, assume I know nothing. The manual is so obtuse. Thanks

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 7:39:23 AM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OpT1mUs

Can someone explain to me , in simple terms, exactly how does supply work in TOAW4, assume I know nothing. The manual is so obtuse. Thanks

I recommend to have a look at my specific tutorial(s) about how supply works. Together with the easy to understand slides, use the following as a supportive documentation.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4282417

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 8:30:32 AM

OpT1mUs

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Will take a look, thanks!

edit: Quick question, the thing that confuses me most. I'm testing the Korea Tutorial scenario, I take an Engineer unit on 100% supply , move it about untill it's on 80%, end its turn on a spot with 31 supply. It's force supply modifier is 75%. So I assumed ti will get resupplied next turn by an amount equal to 31*75% = ~ 23, which would bring it back to 100%. I end the turn and the unit is resupplied to 90%. What Am I missing here?

Your slides and explanations are great , but are mainly about stuff that is new to TOAW 4, I don't have previous TOAW experience, so I first need to know how basic supply works.

< Message edited by OpT1mUs -- 1/22/2018 9:02:30 AM >

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 9:21:11 AM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OpT1mUs

Will take a look, thanks!

edit: Quick question, the thing that confuses me most. I'm testing the Korea Tutorial scenario, I take an Engineer unit on 100% supply , move it about untill it's on 80%, end its turn on a spot with 31 supply. It's force supply modifier is 75%. So I assumed ti will get resupplied next turn by an amount equal to 31*75% = ~ 23, which would bring it back to 100%. I end the turn and the unit is resupplied to 90%. What Am I missing here?

Your slides and explanations are great , but are mainly about stuff that is new to TOAW 4, I don't have previous TOAW experience, so I first need to know how basic supply works.

Basic supply rules/info, plus am excel sheet that calculates it -

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4388511

As for the discrepancy... what about enemy interdiction?

Interdiction Effects
Enemy Air units flying Interdiction Missions
impair Supply distribution. This is determined on a
location-by-location basis (Local Interdiction), but
the average value over the entire Theater (Theater
Interdiction) is calculated for your planning use.
The Theater Interdiction Level is not used by the
game.

HQ Bias Effects
The level of resupply possible for a unit increases by
50% if a cooperative Headquarters unit is located
with or adjacent to a unit. See Cooperative Units
(8.6.1).

If a Headquarters unit assigned to a Formation
is destroyed, or if any assigned Support squads
have been eliminated, the Formation�s Supply
Distribution Efficiency is reduced. You should
protect your Headquarters units to avoid these
serious disruptions to unit resupply.

Local Terrain Effects
Some terrain types influence Resupply levels.
Resupply levels for units in Marsh, Flooded Marsh,
and Mountain terrain are reduced by 33%.

Night Resupply
Resupply levels are reduced by 33% during night
Turns.

Other Supply Considerations
If a unit moved (from one location to another) in
the previous Turn, its Resupply Level is reduced by
33%. On the first Turn of a Scenario, units do not
draw resupply, but are still checked to determine
whether they are Supplied or not. There is a �global
handicap� or reduction of 33% for the net resupply
available to units after all modifications take effect
during the automatic bookkeeping phase.

Again, I recommend to toy around with at least the Tutorial '42 to fully understand the basics; there are quite some factors that play into the whole supply issue.

Klink, Oberst

< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 1/22/2018 9:22:52 AM >

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 9:45:02 AM

sPzAbt653

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This might also help:

TOAW Tutorial - Supply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhVdL9ukZa8

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 9:45:35 AM

OpT1mUs

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Huh, so it's seems from that sheet you linked, that for a non moving unit to get a full possible supply (hex supply value * formation supply distribution efficiency) it needs to have HQ adjacent (or in the hex). So HQ doesn't actually give supply bonus per se, it's just that you have a de facto penalty without it? Either way, it seems much clearer now, thank you

< Message edited by OpT1mUs -- 1/22/2018 10:02:21 AM >

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 4:47:16 PM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OpT1mUs

Huh, so it's seems from that sheet you linked, that for a non moving unit to get a full possible supply (hex supply value * formation supply distribution efficiency) it needs to have HQ adjacent (or in the hex). So HQ doesn't actually give supply bonus per se, it's just that you have a de facto penalty without it? Either way, it seems much clearer now, thank you

HQ's do give a bonus, EDIT: delete cooperative HQ or not. But if your HQ's have support squads and they get 'screwed', that will affect the supply distribution to the formation.

Klink, Oberst

< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 1/22/2018 8:30:50 PM >

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 5:29:33 PM

Cabido

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OpT1mUs

Will take a look, thanks!

edit: Quick question, the thing that confuses me most. I'm testing the Korea Tutorial scenario, I take an Engineer unit on 100% supply , move it about untill it's on 80%, end its turn on a spot with 31 supply. It's force supply modifier is 75%. So I assumed ti will get resupplied next turn by an amount equal to 31*75% = ~ 23, which would bring it back to 100%. I end the turn and the unit is resupplied to 90%. What Am I missing here?

Your slides and explanations are great , but are mainly about stuff that is new to TOAW 4, I don't have previous TOAW experience, so I first need to know how basic supply works.

HQ, as others have said, give you a bonus, but the lack of an adjacent HQ won't harm supply.

You have 31 as the hex supply level.
Subtract 33% if the "High Supply" option (Game Options) is off. So, 31 x 0.67 = 20.77
Subtract 33% if the unit has moved the previous turn. So, 20.77 x 0.67 = 13.9
Multiply by the distribution proficiency. 13.9 x 0.75 = 10.4
Dropping the decimals, it is exactly what you got.
If you were on a PM turn of a half-day turn scenario, another 33% would have to be subtracted.

I think the "High Supply Off" reduction should be already displayed in the hex number, to make things easier, because it is fixed and uniform and does not pertain to the game mechanics, but to initial settings that won't change during the game. But, as it is, just reduce 1/3 of what you see displayed in the hex without further considerations, if "High Supply" is off.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 5:46:47 PM

Oberst_Klink

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Thanks for helping me out here and in other threads, mate!

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 5:49:42 PM

Cabido

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You're welcome.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 8:10:41 PM

secadegas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

HQ's do give a bonus, cooperative HQ or not.

Adjacent cooperative HQ boosts supply. Adjacent uncooperative HQ don't.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 8:30:01 PM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: secadegas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

HQ's do give a bonus, cooperative HQ or not.

Adjacent cooperative HQ boosts supply. Adjacent uncooperative HQ don't.

Thanks Joao!

Corrected.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 9:03:55 PM

secadegas

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After some simple tests... and to be more precise about HQ supply cooperation.

HQ supply boost only happens when HQ is adjacent (or is on the same stack) and is fully cooperative.

Adjacent HQ on limited cooperation or no cooperation don't give any supply bonus.

This bonus happens either the HQ unit has support squads or not.

Free cooperation is the key.

< Message edited by secadegas -- 1/22/2018 9:04:16 PM >

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 9:27:51 PM

Fred98

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Given that the supply is, say, 16, what does 16 mean?

.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/22/2018 11:05:23 PM

Cabido

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If you mean the unit supply level, it means 16% of the total quantity of supply a unit can bring with it while moving. While not moving, the supply level can be greater than 100%, but the unit drops the excess if it moves.

Notice that it is an abstracted concept, it doesn't mean a certain quantity of shells, fuel, etc.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 1:03:20 AM

Fred98

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No, the numbers that appear in the blue and red oval shapes. I move from a hex with a 30 to a hex with a 16. What does the 16 mean?

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 1:38:04 AM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

No, the numbers that appear in the blue and red oval shapes. I move from a hex with a 30 to a hex with a 16. What does the 16 mean?

Attachment (1)

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 5:15:51 AM

Fred98

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Yes we know that. But what does 16 mean? Is it good supply?

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 8:54:59 AM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

Yes we know that. But what does 16 mean? Is it good supply?

I'd say it's ample... depends of course on the (F)ormation (S)upply (D)istribution (E)fficiency, too. E.g. if it were 75% of a formation in question, the units would in theory get 12 supply points... but again, depends on all the other factors already mentioned above, too.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 8:40:24 PM

Fred98

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Sorry, what I have been trying to do is just glance across the map and see where the supply is good and where the supply is bad.

I will operate where the supply is good. Where the supply is bad I will try to improve it.

You have now explained why 16 is adequate in some scenarios and not in others. And why supply is so difficult in this game series.

.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 9:31:30 PM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

Sorry, what I have been trying to do is just glance across the map and see where the supply is good and where the supply is bad.

I will operate where the supply is good. Where the supply is bad I will try to improve it.

You have now explained why 16 is adequate in some scenarios and not in others. And why supply is so difficult in this game series.

.

No need to be sorry about anything. Just out of curiosity mate... what scenario are you playing atm?

Klink, Oberst

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/23/2018 10:43:45 PM

Fred98

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None in particular. I tend to open a scenario I have not seen before, play maybe 5 turns, come across a problem, then try another.

I like to play the side that is advancing. Supply is a regular problem.

.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/24/2018 12:29:58 AM

DanNeely

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"Good" is relative; and in most cases you're not going to have enough supply to sustain continuous high intensity combat; OTOH in shorter single battle scenarios supply will run out over the course of the fight and not last long enough to recover.

It really comes down to what you can do with it. At default scenario settings when moving you lose supply equal to the number of points spent to enter each hex (with the caveat that if you started with >100 supply your first move drops it to 100). This means that in scenarios with higher movement allowances need higher supply levels to keep things going, alternately the scenario designer can adjust the supply cost of movement down (or up). See page 47 in the manual.

Direct combat uses 10 points of supply/round for units in direct combat and 5 points/round for artillery/etc supporting via reserve status (these guns only fire at half effectiveness as if they were directly assigned). For the defender (only) supply consumption can be reduced if the attacking units are collectively much smaller. See page 60.

There're a lot more pages in the manual talking about supply, I just cited the two main ones I used as reference.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/24/2018 8:04:33 PM

OpT1mUs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

quote:

ORIGINAL: OpT1mUs

Huh, so it's seems from that sheet you linked, that for a non moving unit to get a full possible supply (hex supply value * formation supply distribution efficiency) it needs to have HQ adjacent (or in the hex). So HQ doesn't actually give supply bonus per se, it's just that you have a de facto penalty without it? Either way, it seems much clearer now, thank you

HQ's do give a bonus, EDIT: delete cooperative HQ or not. But if your HQ's have support squads and they get 'screwed', that will affect the supply distribution to the formation.

Klink, Oberst

I understand that they technically give a bonus, but it's just that you have 33% penalty without HQ, and effectively 0% penalty with HQ (you actually get Supply value that is printed in the hex). In that sense I said that HQ doesn't give a bonus, but you get a penalty without one.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/28/2018 11:34:00 AM

OpT1mUs

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I just spotted this in the manual:

8.2.8. unIt deployment orders
(advanCed rules)
Units may be deployed in various ways within
their location. This Deployment status reflects an
internal optimization for specific roles or missions:
� Defending � The unit is deployed to defend
the location. There are defensive and supply
advantages for this deployment.

What are the supply advantages of Defending deployment?

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/28/2018 3:05:58 PM

sPzAbt653

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Three Cheeseburgers or one Large Pizza, players choice. Additionally, if a unit performs no actions for the entire turn and remains dug in it receives a free liter of soda.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/28/2018 4:03:54 PM

larryfulkerson

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Any of my helicopter pilots that gets a direct hit gets a free case of beer.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/28/2018 6:59:22 PM

OpT1mUs

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Actual answer would be cool

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/28/2018 7:17:59 PM

larryfulkerson

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Sorry, I appologize for my non-answer. I think Steve and I are trying to say
that almost nobody knows for sure. It would have to be researched in the
code or maybe tested in a sandbox scenario or somebody could just ask Bob
Cross. He would know I bet. Digging in the unit will free up the supply
transportation equipment ( trucks ) and those will be automatically
contributed to the overall supply effort. Asset sharing it's called.
So it's a good idea to dig in the units when you're through moving them.
But as to how much of a boost in terms of supply just from being dug in
is a really good question. Somebody ought to look into that.

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RE: How exactly does Supply work? - 1/28/2018 7:41:48 PM

OpT1mUs

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It's just that I want wargames in general to be a bit less niche, so I try to help out people who have questions on, for example, Reddit, to better understand the game. Someone actually asked about this bonus, and I had no clue because I didn't even notice that tiny sentence in the manual.

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Post #: 30