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US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 10:19:06 AM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		The USA agreed to send 1BP to China, and all the necessary USEntry options are in place (resources + lend lease to China, Burma road reopened, etc.) but as you can see in the Pic., the BP is not sent to China but is marked 'Lost'.

The USA sends 3 resources to Japan and 1BP to China via this convoy route, so there should be enough capacity in the route.

Maybe I am missing something but I suspect a bug. Perhaps the program doesn't recognise the USA is allowed (per option 17) to use its own Concoys? Earlier in this game the USA was allowed to use its own convoys to transport the resource from Phillippines to China, so it looks like resources are handled the right way, just not the build point(s).




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RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 10:21:09 AM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		And the savegame for Steve to investigate if need be.

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Post #: 2
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 11:15:57 AM   
AndreasI

 

Posts: 24
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Status: offline 		Can't check myself atm but it doesn't have anything to do with Alaska resource using up a convoy?

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RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 11:43:47 AM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		Good question, but no.
The Alaskan oil is given to the CW, which is saving it in Vancouver. Since the production planning window tells me only 1 CONV is being used to transport the oil from port Seward to port Vancouver, I know this oil resource doesn't use up a CONV point anywhere between the West Coast and Central Pacific. One piece of the puzzle out of the way ;-).

Might not be of any relevance but I'll mention it anyway: if I tick 'show unused convoys' for the USA, it doesn't show anything. It doesn't matter if the USA convoys are showing 'mine', 'allied' or '1 route', ticking 'show unused convoys', just shows an empty ocean.

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Post #: 4
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 8:24:59 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Is Japan still sending a BP to the USA?

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Post #: 5
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 9:20:37 PM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
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Status: offline 		No they don't.
I think they didn't like the allied embargo on strategic materials, set up by the USA ;-).

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Post #: 6
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/30/2018 10:24:36 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Maybe the game is trying to send the Philippine resource to Japan.

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Post #: 7
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/31/2018 1:00:39 AM   
BrianJH


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/4/2014
From: Adelaide, Australia
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I've had a look at the save game, and noticed that the CW is also sending a Build Point to China. There is a limit to how many build points can go to any one recipient city. That limit is 1 BP per city, Capitol cities have a limit of 2 BP's. If you look carefully you will find that in your situation you can only deliver BP's to China via the Burma Road, and you only have one city available to receive BP's, that being Kunming.

So I think the issue is simply you have already reached your city limit of one BP being sent by the CW.

Brian.


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Post #: 8
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/31/2018 4:22:10 AM   
paulderynck


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From: Canada
Status: offline 		In fact Kunming can receive two BPs - one for the city and one for the factory. The problem is likely the CW BP is sourced in Montreal and set to go to Chungking, using 8 CPs and the only route that I can see that would work would be through the Med, which likely throws other routes off kilter. Possibly there are just not enough Allied CPs in the Bay of Bengal depending on what else is being transported.

Try setting the CW BP to be sent from Calcutta.

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Post #: 9
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/31/2018 4:16:54 PM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		The game seems to be toying with me :
I DID set up the BP from the CW to come from calcutta but somehow after saving and loading it resets to come from Canada instead.

But in the end it's all my fault. NOT a bug.
I assumed the french and CW convoys at sea were adequate, but they were 1 CONV short.
After adding 1 convoy point to Bay of Bengal and resetting the BP from the CW to be sourced from Calcutta, the BP from the US arrived in Kunming!
Off with my head...

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Post #: 10
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/31/2018 5:08:27 PM   
4personalbusiness

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
Status: offline 		Resetting oil and BP instructions remains a big problem in the game. I thought it had been fixed but I recently had a bad time with it in v2.7.1. Garry (Majorball) helped me work around it but it wasn't easy. There's something in the game programming that orders resets under certain circumstances, which is maddening.

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Post #: 11
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/31/2018 7:33:34 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Not sure but I suspect a reset is most likely when a route doesn't work due to insufficient CPs somewhere and the game tries too hard to follow orders.

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Post #: 12
RE: US BP not sent to China - 1/31/2018 11:01:05 PM   
4personalbusiness

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
Status: offline 		If the route were insufficient for some reason, the game wouldn't accept it in the first place. And it often happens when trying to use home country saved oils for production. You assign the saved oils to production, the game accepts this and you think you are golden. Then, you move to the builds screen and the oils have been reset to being saved. I believe this was a known issue discussed at length in another thread.

And, the weird thing is the problem is intermittent and takes different forms. For example, sometimes the builds screen and <ctrl-P> screen don't even agree. Take a look at this screen cap and see if it makes any sense to you. The builds screen reads 20 bps but the <ctrl-P> screen still says 17. Odd.







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Post #: 13
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/1/2018 9:39:47 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Depending on the phase, the game has to accept all resource instructions because it doesn't know whether you'll sail CPs out during your turn, or have some sunk that can't be replaced, or take back resource hexes from the enemy, or how much oil you'll consume in an oil game.

The program may not be perfect but it certainly is not prescient.


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Post #: 14
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/1/2018 11:50:54 PM   
4personalbusiness

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
Status: offline 		Psychic powers are not needed in the screenshot example. When you are at the build phase, as in the screenshot, the <ctrl-P> screen should match. I don't know if it is related to the reset issue, but it could be.

Resetting (or canceling, if you like) resource and oil allocation between the Production Final phase and the Build phase is a real problem. Garry (Majorball) and Lars will confirm this because it has happened in our games repeatedly over many months.

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Post #: 15
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/2/2018 2:49:39 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Got a saved game to go with the screen shots in post #13?

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 2/2/2018 4:28:57 AM >

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Post #: 16
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/2/2018 12:54:49 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 4personalbusiness

Psychic powers are not needed in the screenshot example. When you are at the build phase, as in the screenshot, the <ctrl-P> screen should match. I don't know if it is related to the reset issue, but it could be.

Resetting (or canceling, if you like) resource and oil allocation between the Production Final phase and the Build phase is a real problem. Garry (Majorball) and Lars will confirm this because it has happened in our games repeatedly over many months.


Should it match at that point? Or is the system recalculating things after it has put the build points available to the major power into the production form?
I would be more worried, when the build points as shown during the final production planning phase were not the same as the number which is put on top of the production screen. That's something I've not seen happening for a long time now.


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Post #: 17
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/2/2018 4:26:41 PM   
4personalbusiness

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/23/2016
Status: offline 		I'll zip the file and post it soon. Thanks for your help, guys! Pete

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Post #: 18
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/4/2018 10:38:24 AM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		The main problem with the routes of saved oil and (some) traded BP getting reset in between two save games (including exiting and reloading), is when this happens after the final production planning phase, but before the actual production phase.

I even remember not being able to correct such a faulty reset BP/saved oil during the final production planning phase.
MWiF told me I was not allowed to do it at that time, forcing me to accept a messy resource management...

Keeps me wondering if I will need to manipulate the .GAM file of my current playthrough very often:
Indeed MWiF keeps resetting (between save, exit and reloading the game) the mentioned BP from Calcutta -> China, to be sourced from Montreal, barring the BP from the USA -> China. And After a partisan appeared in India (blocking an Indian resource), MWiF also keeps resetting a saved oil from Calcutta -> Bombay for production. In this case, the lost resource (taken by the Partisan) keeps providing Bombay the status 'producing', even though the resource itself is marked as 'lost'...

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Post #: 19
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/4/2018 6:25:31 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I've come to realize that Preliminary Production (which formerly I just skipped over) is far more important than Final Production. This is because of the sequence of play combined with the as yet uncoded Search and Seizure. There was a design decision made that you should not be able to rework CP routes for traded resources and BPs after the point at which Search and Seizure would happen, which is after Preliminary and before Final. (Even though you could do this over the boardgame.)

Since there is as yet no Search and Seizure anyway, I now try and get all my production set in stone during Preliminary and skip over Final.


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Post #: 20
RE: US BP not sent to China - 2/13/2018 10:28:32 AM   
TeaLeaf


Posts: 414
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		yeah, preliminary is very important, since during (and after) final production planning there are some things that cannot be changed anymore indeed.

...Which is exactly the problem with lend leasing BPs.
You can imagine the disruption of the CW production planning if, for example, the Calcutta BP is set up to be sent to China (with just enough convoys as needed in every sea area) but after saving, exiting and reloading the game suddenly the London BP is sent to China.

If this happens during or after final production planning... You guessed it: it cannot be changed anymore.
Truth be told: I often do not have enough time to play from preliminary all the way through production. So usually I have to save before/during final production planning, which causes quite a problem for both China and the CW.

Just for the record: when I set a factory as source for a lent BP, I do this with the default window open (after clearing it). Apparently to no success.

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Post #: 21
RE: US BP not sent to China - 3/18/2018 10:41:05 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 4personalbusiness

If the route were insufficient for some reason, the game wouldn't accept it in the first place. And it often happens when trying to use home country saved oils for production. You assign the saved oils to production, the game accepts this and you think you are golden. Then, you move to the builds screen and the oils have been reset to being saved. I believe this was a known issue discussed at length in another thread.

And, the weird thing is the problem is intermittent and takes different forms. For example, sometimes the builds screen and <ctrl-P> screen don't even agree. Take a look at this screen cap and see if it makes any sense to you. The builds screen reads 20 bps but the <ctrl-P> screen still says 17. Odd.







One of the first things that happens during the Production phase, is that the program gathers all possible saved build points and puts adds them to the available BPs. Once that is done, there are no more saved BPs on the map. Unless I miss my guess, that is what you are seeing here. Note that BPs sent in trade arrive as Saved BPs.

There is one rule which interferes with this sometimes. Only a limited number of Saved BPs in a hex can be used per turn (the number is unlimited in a capital). So if you sent 4 BPs to Murmansk from the Commonwealth, then 4 saved BPs would arrive in Murmansk and at the start of the Production phase, 2 would be removed and added to the count of BPs available for production. Two saved BPs would remain in Murmansk for the next turn.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 22
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