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Chinese Organization for Modding - 1/30/2018 11:28:26 AM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		Have structure and organization from 1928 and 30, but it didn’t seem all that relevant to the evolution of Chinese units, except to note the early platoon organization of 3 10-man rifle squads as the generally accepted standard. Can put up the early stuff if people really think they need it.

The real organizational struggle begins at the end of the Great Northern Expedition, with the drive to standardize and professionalize the nascent National Army. German influence begins to be seen in the organization tables for a 21st Year “Model” Type division. This was proposed by the Military Mission, but was not meant to be uniformly applied. It was for testing, evaluating, and training purposes and, in the event, only two divisions were so organized (87th and 88th). Notably, this is where the LMG is first incorporated into the infantry platoon, and where AT and IG support weapons are first introduced.

The platoon kept its 3 10-man rifle squads, but added 2 more, each with an LMG (the excellent ZB26). The battalion gun was intended to be the Oerlikon 20mm Model S, but in many cases, the Solothurn 20mm S5-100 was used instead. The infantry gun was proposed to be the German 7.5cm le.IG-18, but a few Rheinmetall 7.5cm le.IG L/13 were available as alternatives.

At the time, the “Model” proposals were a non-starter, particularly with respect to the artillery, but the Germans continued to work with the National Defense Planning Council on a reorganization and equipment plan that would bring the Chinese army up to European standards. This resulted in the 24th Year “New” Type organization.

This was basically a tweak to the 21st Year “Model”, but added a Special Service (basically guards/MPs) platoon/company, organized exactly like their infantry equivalent, to regiment, brigade, division, headquarters. Regimental IGs were finally abandoned in favor of their mortar company alternatives. The 20mm battalion gun platoons were stripped from the units that had them and organized into rapid-fire gun companies, held at Army echelon, but allocated to “selected” divisions for operations.

The National Army Reorganization Plan of 1935 envisioned 60 “New” divisions (xinbian shi), but was predicated on German assurances of weapon and equipment availability; which simply did not happen. Only about 120 20mm guns were delivered, enough for only 20 regiments, or 20, 6-gun rapid fire companies. IG deliveries were worse. Plans for introducing a 6-gun AT company of 37mm guns never got off the ground, and divisional artillery was never delivered.

As a result, only about 10 divisions were organized and equipped along the “New” type scale. These were the ones popularly called the “German” divisions. A further 22 were reorganized on the “New” scale, but equipped with locally produced weapons; those being whatever was available. Needless to say, where a division was authorized an artillery regiment, it almost always had only one battalion.

The bulk of the NRA, not converted to the “New” division model, was to be reorganized as re-formed divisions (zhengli shi) under new tables: the 24th Year Consolidated and 25th Year Adjusted Types. Those will go up next.

Matt




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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 1/30/2018 1:00:18 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		The bulk of the NRA, not converted to the “New” division model, was to be reorganized as re-formed divisions (zhengli shi) under new tables: the 24th Year Consolidated and 25th Year Adjusted Types.

The ‘adjusted’ type was simply a tweak on the ‘reformed’ type and became the generalized standard for what other nations might term ‘reserve’ divisions. The only significant difference in combat elements was the consolidated type retained the MG company at battalion level, while the adjusted type had only a single MG company attached at the regimental level. In both, battalions and regiments lost their ‘gun’ units, with the regimental ‘gun’ unit officially replaced by a mortar company.

In early 1937, the Central Reorganization Committee ordered the homogenization of the army along three main lines. The heart/core of the National Army would be the ‘New’ Type divisions, both the German equipped and the domestic equivalent versions. The remainder would be organized into two groups, depending on equipment availability and intended combat utilization. The Type-A units would be based on the 25th Year Consolidated (larger) Type, while the Type-B would be based on the Adjusted (smaller) Type. Type-A units would eventually evolve into ‘New’ Type units as armament industry production ramped up to sufficiently equip them.

The Chinese made a concerted effort to sort out the mish-mash of 19th Year Type, 21st Year Army Type, 22nd Year Anti-Bandit Type, 24th Year ‘Model’ and ‘New’ Types, and the 25th Year Reorganized/Adjusted Types. Unfortunately, this only obtained for the central NRA units; there were still those of Guangxi, Sichuan, Yunan, Shenxi, Suiyuan, Guangdong, Guominjun to try to get to conform. They did, to some extent, but very incompletely, and with a great deal of regional idiosyncrasies.

In mid-1937, however, the war broke out and all the good intentions went the way of previous efforts. That is the subject of the next part.





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< Message edited by US87891 -- 1/30/2018 1:03:06 PM >

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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 1/30/2018 4:12:40 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline 		Good info.....GP

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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 1/30/2018 5:57:53 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		War broke out in 1937 and Japanese organization and equipment had a profound effect of the NRA. Chiang and his generals were very impressed with the T-97 GD and demanded a local equivalent. This mandated new organization tables to incorporate the weapon into the existing structure. The resulting 1937 Type (26th Year Type) division was basically the same as the preceding 1936 division, but with a significant difference in infantry organization at the platoon level.

Instead of the prior 52-man platoon of 5 10-man squads (2-LMG, 3-Rifle), the new platoon was comprised of 45 men, organized into 3 14-man infantry sections. 2 sections would have a 7-man LMG squad and a 7-man rifle squad, the third section would have 2 7-man rifle squads, each of these comprised of a 5-man rifle team and a 2-man GD team; a slightly smaller platoon but having significantly more firepower and flexibility. This would be the fundamental infantry organizational base for the Chinese army for the duration of the war, modified only slightly in Y-Force and Alpha Plan units in 1944/45.

The events of 1937 made clear that the counter to Japanese operational methods was not to be found in re-rigging the infantry component, so a further reorganization was undertaken, in two steps, in 1938. This yielded the 27th Year ‘Army’ Type division, which was still a bit too cumbersome and so finally triangularized in March of 1938.

It maintained the platoon organization of the 26th Year Type, but everything else was cut to the bone. The already woefully inadequate signals, transport and medical units were slimmed down to mere shells. The divisional arty battalion was abolished and any and all artillery, AT, AA capability was officially held at Army level, with the Army being the primary combat echelon comprising 3 divisions, an artillery battalion (not always present), and small service elements.

This organization proved light enough for mobile operations and flexible enough so it could be selectively reinforced with specific support weapons outside the organizational tables. For example, 16 ‘select’ divisions received an AT company of six 47mm Bohler AT guns. 20 ‘select’ divisions received a light AA “companies” of four Solothurn or Hotchkiss AAMG/MC, and by 1941 consolidation of ALL other AT guns, formerly at regimental or divisional level, allowed for the formation of about 160 4-gun AT companies (western platoons) for allocation to field Army echelon, in turn attached to divisions for operations. Mortar production reached levels sufficient to provide a mortar battalion to any Army lacking artillery as a substitute.





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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 1/30/2018 7:02:09 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		The divisional structure the NRA established before 1937 proved completely inappropriate for the war that followed. The German inspired ‘Model’ and ‘New’ divisions of the 21st and 24th Year types were completely beyond the capacity of China to form, equip, and maintain. The 25th and 26th Year Types were slightly more realistic, but remained clumsy square formations. The NRA finally abandoned the square concept and division combat support services were abolished and consolidated at Army level in the 27th Year Type of 1938.

One of the NRA’s first organizational challenges, and one that was never fully satisfied, was integration of the various provincial/regional forces into a common framework. Several of the more independently minded provinces had been occupied, of course, but others had been brought into the fold (at least partially) by the central governments’ near monopoly on arms and supplies. Nevertheless, certain regional forces remained on their own organizational structures through the end of the war, notably, those of Shanxi and Yunnan.

The final organizational evolution was the establishment of the 1942 31st Year ‘War Baseline’ Type. This retained the basic 1938 organization structure, but realized more cuts by reducing the MG company from three platoons to two, and similarly reducing the mortar company from three platoons to two. Now, all, and that meant ALL, supporting services were stripped from the division and consolidated at Army echelon.

The only compensation was authorization of a rifle/carbine armed recce ‘company’ that was almost never present. The recce company consisted of a 38-man mounted platoon (on non-existent horses/mules) of 3 12-man, carbine armed, sections, and a 113-man dismounted platoon of 10 11-man, rifle armed, sections. The rest of it was a 28-man HQ unit (including 14 cooks) and a 9-man signals section with non-existent radios.

This final ‘Baseline’ structure is the 6000-man ‘division’ that people enjoy talking about. They forget that the ‘division’ was not intended as an independently operable unit. The Chinese operational echelon was the Army, and the division was only its infantry component part. The Army comprised roughly 27,000 men; the equivalent of one and a half western-type divisions, but only ¼ to 1/3 the artillery compliment of a single western-style division.





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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 1/31/2018 5:05:28 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		In terms of incorporating Chinese organization into AE, there are several “squad” devices that one might wish to adjust.

Engineers: Chinese divisions/armies had what was termed an engineer battalion, although labor battalion might have been a better term. Battalion equipment schedules included shovels, picks, hand-carts, carpenter’s hand tools, and a small amount of explosives for demolition, most of which were hand-carried by battalion personnel.

In ‘Model’ and ‘New’ Type units, the engineer battalion comprised 27 17-man squads. Battalion armament was 53 pistols, 45 carbines, and 400 rifles. For units under this organization, engineer squads should be:
Type=24, LC=17, Anti-Armor=1, Anti-Soft=9
i.e., they do not ‘assault’, they do not reduce forts, devices typed Eng (Type=24) can construct (dig), and they can provide reasonable fire in their own defense.

The 1936 Type units were substantially internally similar, but the battalion lost 1 company, so it only comprised 18 17-man squads with the foregoing specs.

The 1939 Type units were substantially internally similar but armament was virtually extinguished. They regained the lost company, thereby again comprising 27 17-man squads. Suggest using the same specs as above, although the more correct data set would be:
Type=24, LC=17, Anti-Armor=1, Anti-Soft=3

The 1942 Type units were internally similar to the 1939 version, but comprised only a single company, thus only 9 17-man squads. Same note as to specs as for 1939 Type.

Suggest, for all of the above, that engineer units contain 33% of devices marked Type=24 (Eng) and 66% of devices marked Type=23 (Squad) i.e., a preponderance of ‘labor’ devices. That will slow down building time to reasonable levels and better represent their actual capability.

Note 1: in 1941-42, the 5th Army Tank Regiment (a motorized formation) in Burma included a motorized Engineer Company comprising four platoons (Camo & Demo, Bridging, Road Building, and Supply) totaling 16 officers and 281 men. They were armed with 44 pistols; 0 carbines, 0 rifles, 0 LMGs, 0 anything else, and a grand total of 38 motorcycles, cars and trucks.

Note 2: The Temporary 20th and 22nd Divisions were formed in November 1944 under the 1942 Type Tables, with reinforcement attachments (an AT, a transport, and a field hospital, company). The engineer company was increased to a 2-company ‘battalion’, comprising 18 officers and 394 men. The battalion was armed with 52 pistols, 38 carbines, and 26 rifles.

Note 3: It was Chinese policy to arm only front line troops. Support elements had only pistols and a (very) few carbines/rifles. The support personnel were left to scrounge whatever else they could physically carry along with the equipment and supplies already on their backs.

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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 2/1/2018 3:43:06 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		The Chinese "engineer" battalion organic to divisions and to many corps etc. correspond
to "construction battalions" in AE terms. Use the appropriate devices - either no
actual engineer squads or just perhaps one engineer (device 251) squad as such. NO
engineer vehicles (device 250).

This thread is very good data.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 2/1/2018 3:45:06 PM >

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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 2/3/2018 2:06:18 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		@ US87891 -
I should have piped up earlier - nice work, and thank you.

I did some minor shuffling in my Mod based on your work, it's top notch, and actually validates a lot of what I had - it should probably increase Chinese forces overall too ...but I'm taking it slow.

Good work

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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 2/3/2018 12:13:12 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		Thank you for your kind comments Big B.

Infantry: The infantry is a bit complicated, but not too much. Infantry components changed over time in the NRA, but most of the changes happened before the period of interest and so can be ignored. Purely by happenstance, the major regional armed forces, particularly those of Shanxi, Guangdong, Sichuan, Yunnan, and Guangxi, had company/platoon level organizations that resembled those of the NRA, at some point in the NRA evolutionary process.

In ‘Model’ and ‘New’ Type units, the platoon organization was 5 squads of 10-men each. This is cumbersome and badly skews the assault value calculations, so the troops and weapons should be consolidated into 3 squads, giving more rational firepower and assault values for higher level units. This gives a company of 9 squads, a battalion of 27, and a regiment of 81. Squad specs are:
Type=23, LC=17, Anti-Armor=5, Anti-Soft=15

The 1936 Type units were substantially the same. Regiments would comprise 84 squads (by including the special service/guard platoon).

The 1938/39 Type units were organized differently at the platoon level. At this time, squad size shrinks (men per squad increased from 10 to 14, but squads per platoon falls from 5 to 3) while armament increases by addition of grenade dischargers. This results in squads with specs of:
Type=23, LC=14, Anti-Armor=12, Anti-Soft=16

The 1938/39 regiment technically returns to 81 squads, but the division includes a special service/guard company which could be considered as a platoon per regiment, letting one keep the 84 squad constitution.

1942 units, through the end of the war, were constituted as above. Once again, however, the Chinese made provision for certain ‘select’ units. In these, the all three squads were armed uniformly, each with an LMG. They still included 2 grenade dischargers, but these were simply handed out whenever the mission called for them. These troops would be found, in small quantities, in the central component of Chiang’s personal command. The specs for these ‘heavy’ squads would be:
Type=23, LC=14, Anti-Armor=12, Anti-Soft=19

Note: Although very easy to produce, the GDs did not become immediately available in sufficient quantities to completely arm all units. It took more than two years to fill out the entire army with the authorized 2 GDs per squad. This would imply that many squads only received one weapon, or that some squads had both while others had none. If this level of detail is desired, the relevant specs would be:
Type=23, LC=14, Anti-Armor=12, Anti-Soft=14 – no GDs
Type=23, LC=14, Anti-Armor=12, Anti-Soft=15 – one GD
Type=23, LC=14, Anti-Armor=12, Anti-Soft=16 – two GDs

Note 2: Anti-armor is predicated on the 12.1 LP T 7.92x57 iS at 100m

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RE: Chinese Organization for Modding - 2/3/2018 3:20:12 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		US87891 a side question, what application do you use to make those charts?

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