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What is the players role? - 2/8/2018 6:59:42 PM

Rogue187
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When you take everything into account, what is the overall role of the player? When I read some of the responses and ideas people would like to see in the game, I find myself amazed at the level of detail and micromanaging that some people want. Somethings I get. Having to deal with AVGAS or food would show the true complications of underway logistics, and crew fatigue would certainly change how often ships would be put back out to sea. But even something already modeled like pilot training seems like too much. I like seeing the pilots, keeping track of the good ones and watching squadron XP improve, but I haven't shifted them around from squadron to squadron to maximize XP. There are decisions given to the player that seem far beneath an Operational Commander, Theater Commander or even member of the Joint Chiefs. I doubt very much that the CINCPAC is worried about how each pilot in the Air Force or Navy's pilot training program is progressing much less figuring out where or what supplies are being loaded, what they are being loaded on, and where they are going! I suppose the easy answer is God, but whose shoes is the player supposed to be filling?

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/8/2018 7:12:34 PM

Canoerebel
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This has been discussed and debated since WitP came out in 2005 (and probably with Uncommon Valor in 2002). You'll get the usual responses that run the gamut from "the more control the better" to "I can't stand all this micromanagement."

(in reply to Rogue187)

Post #: 2

RE: What is the players role? - 2/8/2018 7:22:57 PM

adarbrauner
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I'd prefer to be the Theatre Commander sincerely, more fun. Someone else wrote siilrly as well in your thread "What would you like to be in WITP3";

I'd like in this way: the PC still runs the game and make calculations based on very detailed paramethers; the player though, can only issue general missions and order for "task forces", and is not even notified about the fate of his main combat fleets sent in action, if not after some time and pursuer of some conditions;

he could although set SIGINT security to alower level for a particular plan and set of orders so to be radioed of most of what is happening almost real time, at the expenses of loosing surprise;

for example..

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 6:15:37 AM

Chris21wen
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As it is now. I'd have to find another game to play if it changed or, conversely, others could go play another game.

< Message edited by Chris21wen -- 2/9/2018 6:17:19 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 12:39:44 PM

Macclan5
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My role :

I prefer to be designated...

Supreme Allied Commander and Chief Pacific Oceans Hemisphere

"SACCPOH" or "SACACPOH" -- enunciated "sac of pooh"

I have often wondered what other players deem the "correct acronym" to be.

--

On the Japanese side - with the ability to uber optimize every aspect of the Army faction, Navy faction, and Economic functions .... I assume the correct title is:

Emperor Hirohito the Divine - West Point / Oxford Magna Cum Laude

--

As to any other point the esteemed Canoerebel answered for everyone I do believe.

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 2/9/2018 12:41:47 PM >

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 12:51:23 PM

Yaab
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My role:

- developing a robust carpal tunnel in the right wrist
- suffering from a indefatigable strain of restartitis
- going to the forum's cemetary and necroing dead threads
- feverish dreams of playing the full RHS campaign head-to-head

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 6

RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 1:34:14 PM

Yaab
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- What is the players role?
- To crush the enemy AI, see it driven before you, and hear the lamentations of its fanbois.

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Post #: 7

RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 1:41:46 PM

John 3rd
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

- What is the players role?
- To crush the enemy AI, see it driven before you, and hear the lamentations of its fanbois.

WELL PARAPHRASED!

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https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 2:55:50 PM

Mike Solli
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The Commander Pacific Fleet's title on 7 Dec 41 was CINCUS - sink us. It was changed shortly thereafter.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 3:39:45 PM

Macclan5
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

The Commander Pacific Fleet's title on 7 Dec 41 was CINCUS - sink us. It was changed shortly thereafter.

+1

Yes...

Which is why I highly prefer ....SACACPOH" -- enunciated "sac of pooh"

Or perhaps you saw my results the first time I attempted a GC

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 5:37:42 PM

geofflambert
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This is first and foremost an air war. Spending the time on pilot/crew training is necessary, not optional. I spend half my time (playing Japan) on moving pilots around. The rest is mostly strategy. Logistics are a chore but I want that control. I have never figured out how to do auto-convoy and don't intend to.

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 11

RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 6:30:40 PM

rustysi
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quote:

but whose shoes is the player supposed to be filling?

You are the 'somewhat omnipotent being' that rules the PTO. The only reason I say 'somewhat' is that you'll find in AE not all your orders are carried out to a tee (at least in the air and on the sea), and your knowledge of the situation is not as complete as you'll find in many other games. You are still the HMFWAIC. That reads 'Head (expletive deleted) What Am In Charge'.

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In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 6:36:53 PM

rustysi
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quote:

I find myself amazed at the level of detail and micromanaging that some people want. Somethings I get. Having to deal with AVGAS or food would show the true complications of underway logistics,

At what point does detail and micromanagement make the game unplayable. More of either means more time, and for a game that already takes years to do a PBEM session. TBH I say leave well enough alone. Remember, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 6:38:28 PM

Mike Solli
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Or perhaps you saw my results the first time I attempted a GC

My first several dozen "GCs" were seen by no one but me. It was the old WitP and I was deployed without access to this forum or even the internet with my personal laptop. I started over and over (and over) doing a little more each time, getting my butt handed to me by the AI, and I don't think it was even on hard. This was over the course of a year. I took good notes and (somewhat) figured out how to start. I don't think I ever got to February 1942. After I came home, I met my current opponent (that was 2005) and we've been playing each other ever since.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 7:15:25 PM

geofflambert
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I have been assured that if I win just once as the Japanese, I will head the Gorn Empire.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 7:27:50 PM

Rogue187
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

I find myself amazed at the level of detail and micromanaging that some people want. Somethings I get. Having to deal with AVGAS or food would show the true complications of underway logistics,

At what point does detail and micromanagement make the game unplayable. More of either means more time, and for a game that already takes years to do a PBEM session. TBH I say leave well enough alone. Remember, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Believe me, I am not wishing for anything that detailed! But I do acknowledge that having them implemented would certainly change how the game is played. Could you imagine having to do UNREP every week or two? Ugh! You would spend 2 hours planning out logistics for one day alone! If the game was so detailed that the player could determine TF formation, aircraft formations, company/platoon/squad/fire team movements, I'm still not sure I would consider it unplayable.

The problem with any video game is the limitation of the AI. In this game, I would be willing to bet the AI is a master at logistics, like keeping bases supplied, but probably not a master strategist. Currently, no AI is capable of coming up with plans nearly as efficiently as a human. Generally a person wants something done their way and in their timing. I try to approach the game from the perspective of a senior leader. For example, I use the Auto Sub Ops all the time. I will check on the sub to make sure the AI has given it a good patrol area and adjust if needed, but otherwise, I let them do their own thing. I like having my sub attacks to be a surprise to me. Real life is as much about giving subordinates the freedom to make their own decisions and take their own initiative. Since I am just starting off, I use the game as a WWII simulation and not a board game. Its been amazing seeing just how hard it is to plan a strategy in such a large, fluid environment and to try to think so far ahead! Maybe once I get a better handle on the big things it will be easier to spend time on the little things.

< Message edited by Rogue187 -- 2/9/2018 7:29:17 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 7:28:36 PM

Yaab
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

When you take everything into account, what is the overall role of the player? When I read some of the responses and ideas people would like to see in the game, I find myself amazed at the level of detail and micromanaging that some people want. Somethings I get. Having to deal with AVGAS or food would show the true complications of underway logistics, and crew fatigue would certainly change how often ships would be put back out to sea. But even something already modeled like pilot training seems like too much. I like seeing the pilots, keeping track of the good ones and watching squadron XP improve, but I haven't shifted them around from squadron to squadron to maximize XP. There are decisions given to the player that seem far beneath an Operational Commander, Theater Commander or even member of the Joint Chiefs. I doubt very much that the CINCPAC is worried about how each pilot in the Air Force or Navy's pilot training program is progressing much less figuring out where or what supplies are being loaded, what they are being loaded on, and where they are going! I suppose the easy answer is God, but whose shoes is the player supposed to be filling?

This is a total game. It mixes tactical,operational and strategic levels. Witches' brew, as they say. Some things get bogged down in minutiae (individual pilots' skills), others seem barely touched upon( no ship crew management?). There is also the economy, which adds another "who-am-I" layer and let's you play Speer-san as the Japs. I guess labeling this game "strategic" is a bait for the gullible. Abandon hope all ye who enter here...

(in reply to Rogue187)

Post #: 17

RE: What is the players role? - 2/9/2018 8:36:12 PM

MakeeLearn
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I see myself not as one person issuing orders but as the "Spirit of Command" that forms the attitudes and decisions of the side I'am playing.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/10/2018 4:18:15 AM

crsutton
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Pretty much happy with the way it is.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/10/2018 8:33:58 AM

RichardAckermann
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In this game, one is a divinity. You know the timeline. You know about enemy and own weapon effectiveness. You know about enemy forcenumbers and location. You know when new airframe will be fit for production years ahead. You know how europe will develop and what advantages it will bring you. You know your commanders skills beforehand. You know of a ship sinking even when your sub does sink and cannot report in the contact. You see ship names and images during combat, even if it is radar contact only.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/13/2018 1:06:53 PM

Yaab
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Yes, you do know the leaders skills, but you do not know how they translate into combat outcomes. LCU combat, for instance, is one big black box. So yes, your available data input is many times greater than they had in RL, but you can only guess how all this data affects combat situations.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/13/2018 3:14:30 PM

HansBolter
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Lot of discussion for what is a very simple answer:

The players role is to have fun!

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/13/2018 8:32:21 PM

modrow
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Clickworker.

Pretty much in the orginial sense. A non-professional trying to get things done on a map full of strange information

Just my view

Hartwig

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Post #: 23

RE: What is the players role? - 2/14/2018 6:05:56 PM

Chickenboy
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You are not your job, you're not how much money you have in the bank. You are not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You are not your f***ing khakis. You are the all singing, all dancing crap of the world.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/15/2018 1:49:39 AM

geofflambert
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When C-boy waxes poetic, I get all existentialist.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/15/2018 2:09:35 AM

Canoerebel
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My first thought: has Andre been nipping at the vermouth?

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/15/2018 2:51:43 AM

AW1Steve
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

My first thought: has Andre been nipping at the vermouth?

No I think he's doing a martini minus the vermouth. Probably minus the olive as well.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/15/2018 3:06:11 AM

Chickenboy
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You guys need to review your fine cinematic performances of the last 20 years. Tyler Durden is my hero.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/15/2018 8:16:25 AM

RichardAckermann
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I have had a change of heart. With all those balancing discussions, WITP AE clearly is a surfing simulation. I took it wrong for years.

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RE: What is the players role? - 2/15/2018 12:55:25 PM

AW1Steve
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

You guys need to review your fine cinematic performances of the last 20 years. Tyler Durden is my hero.

OK. My first thought was "who the .... is Tyler Durden ?" . Having never seen fight club , I found out what you were talking about. And came to the conclusion that maybe you really do need that time on a beach.

Just maybe not a "nude beach", where you meet other strange and unusual people.