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Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 12:59:56 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.

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Post #: 1
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 1:54:08 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Port bombing may be over the top a little (even the PH attack in game triples the number of ships hit and cuts the number of planes hit in half). Your ships weren't moving and that is a biggie. IRL high altitude precision bombing of ships underway was close to totally ineffective. Another biggie (IRL) is that your Zeros only carry 60 x 20mm per gun: IRL they found that their 7.7mm's were pretty ineffective against even the TBDs at Midway (that's why VT6 got off relatively lightly AND managed to press home their [ineffective] attack). Against B-17s the 7.7s might as well be spitballs.

But what are you doing with all those ships disbanded in a port reachable by 4E bombers. Time to retreat the fleet to a more secure base (presumably for repairs) out of range of the 4Es.

(in reply to kfmiller41)
Post #: 2
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 4:16:57 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, the fact of the matter in WWII is that the Japanese never based valuable surface assets within range of Allied heavy bombers. Now you know the reason why. As the Japanese player in the game you do have a lot more options and there are ways to protect key bases from the heavies. Obviously lots of flak, and later model fighters do better such at the Tojo and then Frank and George. But a good rule of thumb is that if you have carriers in a base and the Allies recon the base, then unless you got a powerful defensive force there, you had better move the carriers.

In the war, the zero was hopelessly ineffective vs heavy and to an extent medium bombers. One because of armaments and two because zero pilots were never trained in the group formation tactics that were needed to bring down big bombers. In reality the game mirrors this. Once your ships are at sea, the are very tough to hit. But in port...

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Post #: 3
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 4:33:53 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		89 bombers x 4 bombs = 356 bombs
89 bombers x 8 bombs = 712 bombs

18 hits

Sounds about right.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 4
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 5:17:09 AM   
kfmiller41


Posts: 1063
Joined: 3/25/2003
From: Saint Marys, Ga
Status: offline 		Good advice, but so you know I didn't know that base was within range of those bombers, this is the first game I have gotten this far.....

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Post #: 5
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 7:01:12 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Not just 4e, 2e can also cause considerable damage to any ship in a port. Learnt that long time ago when I had one CV badly damaged (later sunk by another attack) and one CVL sunk in Balikapapan sunk by few Hudsons. Only reason they were they in the first place was flooding damage fom CV combat and thought wrongly that it was out of range.

(in reply to kfmiller41)
Post #: 6
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 8:16:03 AM   
RichardAckermann

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 12/4/2015
Status: offline 		Woudn't the A6M2 be able to fire the cannons at long range, outside the bombers defensive gun range?
I am sure to remember the germans did so, and japan armed late fighters with cannons to try engage B-29s at long range.
Are there any historical combats between A6M2 and allied heavy bombers to be studies for this?

(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 7
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 12:48:10 PM   
LeeChard

 

Posts: 1099
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Early Zero models had cannons with a very low muzzle velocity. So it's range was short.
It also had a slow rate of fire. It took expert pilots to make good use of it but even an expert had to
get relatively close to make it effective. A dangerous thing to do with a B-17 or 24.

(in reply to RichardAckermann)
Post #: 8
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 1:35:27 PM   
RichardAckermann

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 12/4/2015
Status: offline 		I didn't expect that. Zero cannons have a range of 5 in all my stock scenarios. Gotta be overpowered, then.

(in reply to LeeChard)
Post #: 9
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 4:16:15 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Good advice, but so you know I didn't know that base was within range of those bombers, this is the first game I have gotten this far.....


You will soon know this stuff by heart.

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Post #: 10
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/10/2018 4:27:15 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Woudn't the A6M2 be able to fire the cannons at long range, outside the bombers defensive gun range?
I am sure to remember the germans did so, and japan armed late fighters with cannons to try engage B-29s at long range.
Are there any historical combats between A6M2 and allied heavy bombers to be studies for this?


It was a very poor weapon combination for shooting down bombers. You had a high velocity MGs with very little killing power mated with very low velocity 20mm cannon with only 20 rounds per gun. This made any kind of deflection shot very tough to do. To have any chance of a hit the zero had to close well within 50 cal. range and this was a pretty deadly prospect for a light fighter. Vs early bombers the only safe and effective attack was head on, but this was very hard to do for any pilot and the Allies soon beefed up the frontal guns of their bombers as a counter.

As I mentioned before Japanese pilots were not trained in group formation attacks vs bombers. Even with well equipped modern fighters this was an absolute must for bringing down heavies. Solo attack vs a well armed defensive box were not effective and usually fatal. There were two reasons for this lack. Japanese pilots had previously only fought slow light bombers prior and based their doctrine on the concept of plane to plane dog fighting. Regardless, Japanese fighters for the most part did not have radios. You just can't have coordinated formation attacks without functioning radios. It was a severe handicap.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to RichardAckermann)
Post #: 11
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/11/2018 8:11:07 AM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.


Strange. Truk is stuffed with heavy AA guns. Thirty Zeroes, flak from the disbanded ships in the port... The 4ES were lucky to hit anything. Did he recon heavily Truk prior to the air raid?

(in reply to kfmiller41)
Post #: 12
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/11/2018 11:11:50 AM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline 		A6Ms can be effective against 4-Es under certain conditions. Pilots above 80 exp. have a chance to make "head-on" attacks against 4-Es, knocking them out of formation and making them very easy to destroy. In order to achieve "head-on attacks," the altitude of your A6s must be equal to that of the 4-Es. There are other advantages to being at an altitude equal to the 4-Es. If your A6Ms are climbing into or diving into the B-17s, they frequently come under heavier fire, from the ball gunner and turret gunner, than if they are attacking from a level vector. To give you an example, my A6M2s just did battle with 40 B-17s, and I lost only 4 A6M2s in the battle, though I did have many damaged. The replay showed that the lost A6M2s were those that were climbing into the B-17s. Detection time is crucial here, so that your A6Ms can respond to the correct altitude. You want to be sure that you have your best available radar at the base where you expect the attack: tai-chi 13, I believe, in late 42. The Tai-Chi 1 and Tai-Chi 2 are not much more effective than sound detectors.

The A6M series is not ideal for 4-E defense, however, because of its low durability, as others have observed. 4-Es require a "combined arms" approach of high-durability, cannon-armed fighters (such as the Nick), quality radar, and heavy concetrations of flak with large numbers of searchlights for night-time raids.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 2/11/2018 11:14:48 AM >

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 13
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 2:56:02 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Op had too many ships in the base.
Also does not say anything about Zero interception except : 30 that is too little information.

Aurorus searclights do not matter, they are load cost sinks.

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 14
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 7:08:22 AM   
Barb


Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		Rule No.1: Never have ships disbanded in harbour, or planes on Stand By in range of 4E (15 hex for B-17E, 13hex for B-17F, 17 hex for B-24D/D1, 16 hex for B-24J - normal range. Add PB4Y and extended range for safety measure) - that is about 18-22 hex range. Once B-29 is in picture, readjust accordingly.
Rule No.2: Keep them up (high) - heavy AA, Radar, cannon armed-armored fighters in big numbers, detection.
Rule No.3: Keep them down (grounded) - destroy/damage them on the ground by whatever means are available. Every damaged 4E can take a lot of time to get back to fighting trim.

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Post #: 15
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 11:41:28 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		I have had a single ship hiding disbanded in some atoll in the Gilberts. Up came three B-24s from Funafuti, found it and sank it. Happened several times.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 1:45:46 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.


If you're looking for some help on settings drop in some screen shots of your fighter CAP settings, the combat report of the strikes, and some info on your pilot experience and skills. Too little here to go on.

That said, it's not out of the ordinary for massed 4Es to do a lot of damage on port strikes, as everyone has basically confirmed.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 2:14:01 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		Ships in port... like... fish in barrel.


Early war, the Nick is probably the best Japanese plane to combat Allied bombers.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 2/12/2018 5:22:52 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 18
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 3:07:11 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Making things worse for Zeros versus 4E bombers is that they are fairly slow relative to the bombers, particularly if climbing to intercept. That often puts them in a situation of making a slow (relative) approach from behind. As others have said, the early 20mm cannons were inaccurate until well into 50 cal range, and the 7.7's are fairly useless.

Mike

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(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 19
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 3:43:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


Aurorus searclights do not matter, they are load cost sinks.


I respectfully disagree. They do add something, flak most times will not fire at night with no radar or searchlights. Add searchlights, and they will fire even without radar present.

They are also damage soaks.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 20
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 6:48:00 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

in late 42. The Tai-Chi 1 and Tai-Chi 2 are not much more effective than sound detectors.


Don't know if its charisteristics are any better, but the Tai-Chi 3 is available Oct. '42.

quote:

and the 7.7's are fairly useless.


I've only had one B-17D shot down by 7.7's in all my games, and that was when a rather large bunch of Nate's caught a few B-17D's.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 21
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 6:49:09 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

I respectfully disagree. They do add something, flak most times will not fire at night with no radar or searchlights. Add searchlights, and they will fire even without radar present.


+1

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 22
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 8:00:54 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Explain how that is possible with searchlight specs.

Now it is possible that some mod changed the specs.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 23
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 8:14:38 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		Dili,

Why are they chanting your name in those beer commercials?

Puzzled

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Post #: 24
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/12/2018 9:34:26 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.


If you're looking for some help on settings drop in some screen shots of your fighter CAP settings, the combat report of the strikes, and some info on your pilot experience and skills. Too little here to go on.

That said, it's not out of the ordinary for massed 4Es to do a lot of damage on port strikes, as everyone has basically confirmed.


This uncanny accuracy during daylight is something that might be explained away, but when you see them coming in at night in 0% moonlight and getting multiple hits on pinpoint targets, while shooting down droves of night-fighters to boot without suffering much themselves, then you start wondering...

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 25
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/13/2018 2:15:16 AM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili


Aurorus searclights do not matter, they are load cost sinks.


I respectfully disagree. They do add something, flak most times will not fire at night with no radar or searchlights. Add searchlights, and they will fire even without radar present.

They are also damage soaks.


This has been my experience as well. Without searchlights, flak often does not fire at night. It may be that flak is set to base accuracy of 0 at night. Searchlights have an accuracy of 2 and lend their accuracy rating to flak in units that contain searchlights but do not have radar.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 2/13/2018 2:24:09 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 26
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/13/2018 3:59:06 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.


If you're looking for some help on settings drop in some screen shots of your fighter CAP settings, the combat report of the strikes, and some info on your pilot experience and skills. Too little here to go on.

That said, it's not out of the ordinary for massed 4Es to do a lot of damage on port strikes, as everyone has basically confirmed.


This uncanny accuracy during daylight is something that might be explained away, but when you see them coming in at night in 0% moonlight and getting multiple hits on pinpoint targets, while shooting down droves of night-fighters to boot without suffering much themselves, then you start wondering...


Thank You LST. I have stayed out of this thread due to my strong feeling on this subject. You, politely, hit the nail on the head.

Add to that the ability of 40-50 4EB to inflict 1,000+ Casualties on troops in Lvl-6 Forts and we're moving farther into the fantasy realms...


_____________________________



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(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 27
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/13/2018 9:47:39 AM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Dili,

Why are they chanting your name in those beer commercials?

Puzzled


what do you mean?



----

Searchlights are radars in game but they aren't even anti-aircraft radar.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 28
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/13/2018 10:58:13 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.


If you're looking for some help on settings drop in some screen shots of your fighter CAP settings, the combat report of the strikes, and some info on your pilot experience and skills. Too little here to go on.

That said, it's not out of the ordinary for massed 4Es to do a lot of damage on port strikes, as everyone has basically confirmed.


This uncanny accuracy during daylight is something that might be explained away, but when you see them coming in at night in 0% moonlight and getting multiple hits on pinpoint targets, while shooting down droves of night-fighters to boot without suffering much themselves, then you start wondering...


Thank You LST. I have stayed out of this thread due to my strong feeling on this subject. You, politely, hit the nail on the head.

Add to that the ability of 40-50 4EB to inflict 1,000+ Casualties on troops in Lvl-6 Forts and we're moving farther into the fantasy realms...


I held back, but wondered if someone else would add this in. If you know my games you know that I ask for (and inflict on myself playing the Allies) an HR for no more than 50 bombers o night strike against any one port/airfield. The DBB AA makes night strikes slightly less lethal, but not enough.

In the war the Brits tested and proved early on that hitting an airfield at night, even with the many landmarks and guides at night in Europe, was next to impossible. In the Pacific it was even harder. There are a few cases where it worked, but usually later in the war. Not to say the early 4Es especially didn't try it a lot, but they certainly didn't sink 70-90% of ships in port, and definitely didn't hit 50% of the aircraft on a busy base.

There is a great book on the difficulties (and amazing perseverance and achievements) of the 4Es that started it new PI and moved to OZ throughout the early part of the war, called Fortress Against the Sun by Gene Eric Salecker. A really good read. Also talks about the tactics of Japanese pilots trying to bring them down and how many they'd routinely hit with their defensive guns.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 29
RE: Question about 4E Bombing - 2/13/2018 1:01:38 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: kfmiller41

Am playing Japan in a PBEM and my opponent just bombed my base at truk using about 50 heavy bombers. Date was 29 Dec 42. 5 raids came in at between 14000 to 18000 feet and total planes for all raids were 89. He lost no planes to my 30 zeros. He scored 18 hits, put 8 carriers and 1 battleship out of commission for at least 3-6 months with major damage. While I congratulate him on doing that I also feel like this accuracy is so out of whack I can understand why so many Japanese players call it quits. I mean I want to be competitive but I have nothing to shoot down hordes of 4 engine bombers, even my 2 engine fighters cannot stop them.
Am I just a bad player or is this something that should be house ruled to limit the uncanny accuracy these things have? It is only December 42 and he is already clobbering my bases with these beasts.


If you're looking for some help on settings drop in some screen shots of your fighter CAP settings, the combat report of the strikes, and some info on your pilot experience and skills. Too little here to go on.

That said, it's not out of the ordinary for massed 4Es to do a lot of damage on port strikes, as everyone has basically confirmed.


This uncanny accuracy during daylight is something that might be explained away, but when you see them coming in at night in 0% moonlight and getting multiple hits on pinpoint targets, while shooting down droves of night-fighters to boot without suffering much themselves, then you start wondering...


Thank You LST. I have stayed out of this thread due to my strong feeling on this subject. You, politely, hit the nail on the head.

Add to that the ability of 40-50 4EB to inflict 1,000+ Casualties on troops in Lvl-6 Forts and we're moving farther into the fantasy realms...



If it happens in PBEM, then you and your partner could rengetiate the house-rules and ban 2E/4Es from flying Ground attack missions in combat hexes.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 30
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