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Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending

 
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Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/12/2018 7:38:38 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		I propose a change to the PBEM game so players can't view their opponents Diplomacy & Research spending. Knowing what your opponent spends greatly reduces available strategies impact and isn't realistic. If I am Allied the Axis players merely need to view the Diplomacy & Research graph and offset my moves, it makes no sense and takes away from the game. If the Axis player sees the French spent 50/100 on Diplomacy they know the diplomacy investment is towards Spain and negates the French move. etc etc




< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 2/12/2018 9:45:27 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/12/2018 9:48:36 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		But would it change anything, if you wouldn`t know?

Spending MPPs on diplo is inevitable anyway, if your opponent does, you`ll have to counter. The best way to do the inevitable is to be first; the target doesn`t really matter.

Haven`t said that, the stats provide too many informations for free, especially the number and kind of units of every nation.

< Message edited by Sugar -- 2/12/2018 10:00:31 PM >

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 2
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/12/2018 10:04:52 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		If it wouldn't change anything then I guess you are ok with it. Actually it changes a lot.

What if French/Brits spend 300 on USSR? It isn't typical the Axis spends $$ on USSR relations but would given the knowledge.

How is it realistic that one knows immediately exactly what the opponent has spent of R&D?







< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 2/12/2018 10:26:33 PM >

(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 3
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/12/2018 11:00:38 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: offline 		Especially if you make a push towards the USSR or USA as the allies, you're essentially exposing France will be weak before your chits have a chance to convert if your opponent pays attention to graphs. As a big user of diplo I wouldn't mind at least getting the benefit of scoring a hit before the jig is up.

Maybe if certain info would only be revealed at a delay or required to have a certain level of Spy tech to know...


(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 4
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/12/2018 11:51:10 PM   
Sugar

 

Posts: 926
Joined: 3/16/2017
Status: offline 		No, not realistic, that`s for sure.

But anyway, you won`t be 100% sure of the target, and you also wouldn`t be if an opponent spends 150 MPPs, unless he spends 750 in 5 steps, but even in that case you won`t know the target.

It`s as simple as that: spend 250 MPPs into Spain as Axis asap, another 150 italian asap, and react to your opponent the first time he achieves a hit at another target, right after achieving an own, thereby letting the air out completely, and independant of any Stats. At least I agree, there`s no need to provide any such information.


(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 5
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/13/2018 8:59:52 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		I'm glad you guys agree. Maybe a delay is a good idea. It is one of those issues that doesn't translate from AI to PBEM well.

It just seems to be a disconnect with the spirit of the game.


(in reply to Sugar)
Post #: 6
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/13/2018 10:59:48 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		On the other hand, if you think about it, keeping diplomatic ventures secret (particularly to neutral minors who are more than happy to play one off the other) isn't very realistic either.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 7
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/14/2018 12:01:32 AM   
Icier


Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline 		I reckon it should depend on whether you have invested on intelligence....nothing spent on intelligence, no access to the others.

_____________________________

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 8
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/14/2018 12:02:03 AM   
Philippeatbay


Posts: 855
Joined: 12/3/2014
Status: offline 		The way it works in real life is that if one country's embassy/government starts leaning on the host country, it's not very long before everyone else in the diplomatic community in that country figures out that something's up. You just have to pay attention to who talks to whom and for how long at diplomatic receptions and functions. Since that's what embassy types are paid to do (among other things), they make a point of going to all the parties and staying sober enough to keep track of what's going on. You won't know the details, but if Germany is trying to get in Japan's pants, the signs will be obvious. Think of it as social gossip as a form of espionage: a country's diplomatic community is a lot like a small village, and everyone tends to know everyone else's business at a gut level, if not in detail.

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 9
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/15/2018 9:50:25 PM   
ikrananka


Posts: 71
Joined: 6/19/2014
Status: offline 		While one could argue that diplomatic efforts could easily be transparent in the real world due to the way that the global diplomatic community works, I doubt that this argument could be extended to spending on research which would be more closely linked to intelligence and spying. For instance in my PBEM game against Taxman66 he immediately deduced in the very first turn that I cashed in research in two areas and spent them on another. I doubt that at the outset of war that kind of intelligence would have been available to either side.

In my opinion, the data and graphs for an opponent should either be completely turned off until the end of the game, or only partially revealed as more levels of Intelligence are gained.

< Message edited by ikrananka2 -- 2/15/2018 9:51:18 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Philippeatbay)
Post #: 10
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/15/2018 9:53:57 PM   
PvtBenjamin

 

Posts: 1066
Joined: 5/6/2017
Status: offline 		Thats why Taxman thinks not showing it is a bad idea. Unfortunately to many decisions are made in the game by input from players who's only interest is enabling their ability to win.

< Message edited by PvtBenjamin -- 2/15/2018 9:54:40 PM >

(in reply to ikrananka)
Post #: 11
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/15/2018 10:52:49 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		On the other hand there are many things in this (and other) games that would be nearly impossible to keep a secret but easily are.
For example, it takes almost zero spying/recon to learn that ships (and their type) are being built (and where), or that large numbers of men and equipment are moving into areas (not necessarily their exact compositions and exact locations), but enough to know of large formations gathering.

I wouldn't object (and even approve) of the Research investments being kept hidden if spying allowed for occasional information in what the opponent is researching (at least in regards to equipment based research as opposed to doctrine-Warfare based research).

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to PvtBenjamin)
Post #: 12
RE: Viewing Opponents Diplomacy & Research Spending - 2/15/2018 11:11:23 PM   
Taxman66


Posts: 1665
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Columbia, MD. USA
Status: offline 		It can always be suggested to the developers to add a game option to deactivate the Reports button. That should be a very simple coding addition.
A bit harder would be to add an option that only showed reports for your side.

_____________________________

"Part of the $10 million I spent on gambling, part on booze and part on women. The rest I spent foolishly." - George Raft

(in reply to Taxman66)
Post #: 13
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