Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:09:22 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov highway

3. Hasty attacked succeeded and I now bring the German 20-16 to the yellow circle. This will force the Soviet 20 defense unit to the west to retreat to the NW when attacked.




quote:

3. Hasty attacked succeeded and I now bring the German 20-16 to the yellow circle. This will force the Soviet 20 defense unit to the west to retreat to the NW when attacked.

I really like your detailed report and graphical representation.
One question regarding this though: Will the 20 def unit no retreat NW anyway, no matter whether there is a German unit in the yellow circle or not?

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 151
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:13:03 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway

4. I bring up my first airpower to the front both fighters and bombers. I turn 2 sets of fighters to day mode and a set of 2 bomber squadrons to day mode. All other squadrons are on night mode. You don't need to overdo the airpower imho. I also bring up two division for the attack on the 20 point Soviet stack and calculate this could go either way. But I have plenty of units for more attacks if needed. The unit will retreat to the rail NW for sure.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 152
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:15:34 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov highway

3. Hasty attacked succeeded and I now bring the German 20-16 to the yellow circle. This will force the Soviet 20 defense unit to the west to retreat to the NW when attacked.




quote:

3. Hasty attacked succeeded and I now bring the German 20-16 to the yellow circle. This will force the Soviet 20 defense unit to the west to retreat to the NW when attacked.

I really like your detailed report and graphical representation.
One question regarding this though: Will the 20 def unit no retreat NW anyway, no matter whether there is a German unit in the yellow circle or not?


Yes, it will 100% retreat to the NW because I moved that 20-16 (17-0 after move) German inf unit to the yellow circle. If you look at step 4 which I just posted you will see that 20-16 German unit in that hex. This 100% forces that Soviet 12=20 to the NW.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/15/2018 11:21:10 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 153
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:19:29 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway


5. Units retreated NW after a successful Deliberate attack by two Divisions, one a 90 exp.







Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/15/2018 11:20:25 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 154
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:24:18 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		As far as I know, moving the white centered 20-16 infantry unit to the yellow circled hexagon was not necessary to achieve the retreat direction you desired, it would do so anyway.
But my intuition regarding unit retreat paths might be just wrong.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 155
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:26:39 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway

6. I bring up the Airborne Division under Model for some hasty attacks. The 1st hasty attack is against the 3=2 Soviet Division. The division will 98%(I have seen rare cases in other games where it wont) of the time retreat to the railroad to the east. I have no doubt it will do so this time too. Ground Support is still turned on for this hasty attack.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 156
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:34:42 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

As far as I know, moving the white centered 20-16 infantry unit to the yellow circled hexagon was not necessary to achieve the retreat direction you desired, it would do so anyway.
But my intuition regarding unit retreat paths might be just wrong.


No you are correct. I just didn't want any doubt and placed the unit there. Normally a combat suffices but sometimes it does not. weird cases I have seen.

_____________________________


(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 157
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:37:58 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway

7. Attack successful and now I need a unit to displace the HQ's which could be for the units I'm hasty attacking next.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 158
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:39:47 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway

8. Bring up a nice shiny new SS Division & displace the HQ's

9 & 10 The airborne Division under Model hasty attacks the Soviet 5=9 Division in the swamp 1st then the 4=17 division in Pskov. BUT before I do that I turn off ground support. I know this is going to draw a ton of questions & I can't give you the answer but I know from experience to turn ground support off for hasty attacks like this. I leave it off for the hasty attack on the Pskov division too. All my test back in the day showed that attacks such as these had a higher % of success without air support when opposed by the opposite sides air and M60 is flying Interception missions. So ground support is turned off for the next two hasty attacks.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/15/2018 11:47:17 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 159
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/15/2018 11:51:46 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway

11. both attacks succeed and units retreat as planned. I now break down the SS division into regiments and attack with just ONE regiment the unit to the east (Soviet 2=1 Division) to finalize the opening of the Pskov Highway.






Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 160
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:01:20 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Opening of the Pskov Highway

12. The highway is now open and for the celebration, we receive the "GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING". I received a nice sum of fuel from the displacement but would have been nice if there was a larger sum of aircraft on the airbase. Oh well we thank you for the gift on the opening of the Pskov Highway.

****you can follow the pictures where the unit displaced and airfield bombed and my units moved. It displaced somewhere north after the last picture and I was bored of the toy and didn't follow the airbase any longer.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 12:02:49 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 161
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:09:37 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Soviet Mad Bombing.


The RED bombing icons are eye candy on the map and are a nice Morale booster for the Soviets but really the damage by Level bombers is like getting bitten by a mosquito. I just hope not to get bitten by one carrying something lethal. Nothing to worry about on the bombing front. Do continue since this actually gives me less to worry about than people think. The average was 20ish or less with a few higher in death or damage done.

****Units will be in covered terrain as much as possible for now on and/or good entrenchments.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 1:28:21 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 162
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:09:42 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

and the South Mad Bombing!






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 12:10:43 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 163
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:14:59 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

M60 is using Interdiction since I got hit with one. Will deal with that shortly but nothing to worry about yet.








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 12:18:11 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 164
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:19:11 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Railroad conversion for turn 5 in the North. Full steam ahead.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 165
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:26:59 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Finnish Final turn 5. Finns are lethal if all are activated by mistake on the Soviet part






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 12:28:31 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 166
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:32:45 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

North Final turn 5.

Not saying nothing besides I could not close the pocket :(




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 167
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:44:55 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

I see Zhukov in charge of the Western Front. Interesting.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 168
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:49:23 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5 Air loses

Almost all air loses have been Finns. I'm sure next turn is not going to be nice to me. Lets wait and watch.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 169
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:54:28 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5 Loses






Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 170
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 12:58:05 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

Oh, before I forget. I don't know why but these units withstood another attack. Instead of multiple possible further failed attacks and then getting violent on the cat again(kicking the cat) I decided to let them rot. I have had enough of them. (I go away cursing under breath, "freaking mother freaking SOB units")




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 1:04:05 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 171
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 1:11:49 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5 ending German OOB








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 1:13:29 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 172
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 1:18:11 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 5

All in all, not a bad turn. I will now put a couple turn delay into my AAR that way I can show all the fronts on what is being accomplished(not that I am accomplishing much). I'm sure M60 will have some surprises for me as I trek towards Leningrad but the way it looks he is hurting for units after the Finnish fiasco. I will wager he will never do that again, putting units on the Finnish border that is.

Stay tuned to see what happens on the way to Leningrad and the other fronts.

Thank you for reading.

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 173
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 9:50:45 AM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		I just realized why you chose your avatar. You like to play with your food before you eat it :)

That's a shocking breakthrough in the North. All hands to the pumps at Stavka HQ.
I think you've taken the game to a new level, shame you never played Michael T. That would have given you both something to think about :)

Can somebody explain to me why Psvov is not the expected retreat direction for the 12=20 stack? Is it because Pskov is adjacent to an enemy controlled hex and the hex to the NW isn't?

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 174
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 1:16:11 PM   
821Bobo


Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

Can somebody explain to me why Psvov is not the expected retreat direction for the 12=20 stack? Is it because Pskov is adjacent to an enemy controlled hex and the hex to the NW isn't?


Because there is already Ger division next to Pskov projecting ZOC.

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 175
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 1:24:26 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

I just realized why you chose your avatar. You like to play with your food before you eat it :)

That's a shocking breakthrough in the North. All hands to the pumps at Stavka HQ.
I think you've taken the game to a new level, shame you never played Michael T. That would have given you both something to think about :)

Can somebody explain to me why Psvov is not the expected retreat direction for the 12=20 stack? Is it because Pskov is adjacent to an enemy controlled hex and the hex to the NW isn't?


I love my panther my daughter drew for me. Now if I can just get the gif going today after I finish my turn on my Soviet game.

I don't know about taking the game to another level. I'm sure there are others that are far superior than I am in the game. I just wanted to lay out how I look at the battlefield & both the North Front and the Finnish front I just used the retreat priorities to maximize the effort put forth. If you know what to look for on retreat priorities and the placement of units at specific times on the battlefield you can gain a great deal as the Germans early in the game. Not to mention attack priorities too. Both of these go hand-in-hand.

Retreat priority is almost always to a rail hex. If you put a ZOC on a hex, from my experience, the unit will not retreat through that ZOC as a retreat priority unless it has no other choice. It will always take the route without a ZOC first. Thus the hex NW is 1st and foremost a rail hex and not in a ZOC which makes this hex preferred over Pskov hex. That is why it is imperative that when you set up a defense to know where the retreat priorities are. This then tells you which hexes to defend heavily if that makes sense.

_____________________________


(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 176
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 1:25:03 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo

quote:

Can somebody explain to me why Psvov is not the expected retreat direction for the 12=20 stack? Is it because Pskov is adjacent to an enemy controlled hex and the hex to the NW isn't?


Because there is already Ger division next to Pskov projecting ZOC.


Yup yup.

_____________________________


(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 177
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 3:08:12 PM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 2044
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

Because there is already Ger division next to Pskov projecting ZOC.

I knew that already Bobo, but post 155 and 157 seem to suggest that this was not necessary. That the stack would not retreat towards Pskov even if the city was not in enemy ZOC. I'm curious why that is. Would be very useful to know.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 178
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 3:28:25 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

quote:

Because there is already Ger division next to Pskov projecting ZOC.

I knew that already Bobo, but post 155 and 157 seem to suggest that this was not necessary. That the stack would not retreat towards Pskov even if the city was not in enemy ZOC. I'm curious why that is. Would be very useful to know.


If a unit was not placed into the hex next to Pskov there was a chance that the unit could retreat to Pskov or to the NW because of the extra factor of crossing the river to the NW on retreat. I will never take that chance and will always put a unit to exert a ZOC to force the retreat. So to answer the question is yes, without a unit next to Pskov the unit could have retreated to either spot (NW or Pskov) but the likelihood of NW was still greater given the combat next to Pskov but not a given because of retreating across a river. So the retreat could have been iffy at best without the ZOC going either way. The ZOC into Pskov locked it out as a retreat zone.

Hope this helps and I am not the best explainer of things :(. I'm sure one of the Genius bookworms we have on the forums that I love so much can put the book material to this :). I just know it because I have seen it so many times in my games and make mental notes of these types of items.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 2/16/2018 3:45:17 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 179
RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA ... - 2/16/2018 4:47:05 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

bookworms we have on the forums

I hope that setting up a library of WitE-ressources qualifies me as a bookworm.
When exactly the same question came up on a German wargaming forum, I tried to put my gut feeling into a list of priorities. After I had to edit the list multiple times because of new experiences in my games I gave up on making such a list. Things that play a role are ZOCs, rail lines, movement point costs, hex ownership in near hexes and the side the retreating unit is from and maybe some items on the list I have forgotten.
My feeling is still that the NW retreat would happen with or without the 20-16 inf, but HLYA is a very great deal more experienced than me so you should not value this too high.
In any case you set up a test scen to verify this.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 2/16/2018 4:48:03 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: VERNICHTUNGSKRIEG!!!!! (War of Extermination) HLYA (AXIS) vs M60 (Soviet) (M60 welcome) Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.079