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Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/15/2017 4:07:17 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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OK, in an AI game I don't think this is much of a problem, but in a PBEM I want everything I can get. Down AFB's!!!!

So this radar won't appear in the game as the editor hasn't an upgrade for the proper device. Its due date is 7/42 and I'm past that (9/42) and I can see the devices accumulating in the pools. IIRC it replaces the observer device in those Japanese AAF AS units of about Bn size. The only fix I can find that identifies this is:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064

Is that true?

OK, if that's so I have some other questions.

One, is this going to 'fowl up' my current AI game, because as I understand it the fix is incorporated in Andy Mac's AI script updates. So there are changes to the script, and things could maybe get lost? No?

Two, if I do this its now my understanding that I would have to ensure that any PBEM opponent would also have to have the same update. Is that correct?

Edit:The bold text above is incorrect. The radar replaces the sound devices.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 12/17/2017 5:47:51 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/17/2017 11:29:29 AM

inqistor

Posts: 1813
Joined: 5/12/2010
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I think all problems with radar upgrades were already fixed. If you see them in pools, that means units already took them, as Japan do not produce any device, until actually used for upgrade.

The fix is database devices problem, and only that exact file would repair this. AI have nothing to do with this. IIRC there are actually 3 different Ta Chi 13 radars, and they upgrade on different dates, for different units. I would need to take a closer look in database, to be sure.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 2

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/17/2017 5:07:10 PM

InfiniteMonkey

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
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Radar is an incredibly important factor in the outcome of both naval and air battles. It is therefore extremely important to understand when and where you get radar.

LCU Radars
The most basic detection used by Japanese forces are the Mark 1 eyeball and searchlights - which are basically big ass flashlights. :) These are modeled in game as search radars with the following device characteristics and never upgrade to anything else:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
715 Observer Squad Surface Radar 498 0 5 10 10 500 0 Dec-41 0 Japan
792 Searchlight (J) Surface Radar 470 15 30 0 1 0 2 Dec-41 0 Japan

315 land units in the game have "Observor Squad" (device 715) in their TOE:
� JAAF AF Bn's
� JAAF Base Force's
� Fort's
� JNAF AF Unit's

160 LCU's of various types have "Searchlight(J)" (device 792) in their TOE:

� JNAF AF Unit's
� AA Rgt's
� AA Bn's
� Fort's
� JNAF Base Force's

It is important to note that Searchlight (J) devices
� Have a Pen of 0
� Have a Range of 0
� Air Search Mode is unchecked

It is unclear if searchlights have any affect upon the game other than their load cost to transport the unit. Reliable sources say they are worthless in terms of in game effect other than adding to the load cost of a base unit.

For the JFB, all radar in LCU's upgrades from devices labeled "Sound Detectors (J)". However, there are actually 5 devices in the scenario editor with the name "Sound Detector (J)" and each upgrades differently (or not at all). The more difficult problem for managing these is actually that you cannot tell which LCU's have which "Sound Detector (J)" within the game. You have to look in the scenario editor to see.

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1460) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1460 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 88 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1461 Japan
1461 Ta-Chi 1 Radar Surface Radar 0 4 30 45 20 500 20 Mar-42 Jul-42 1462 Japan
1462 Ta-Chi 2 Radar Surface Radar 0 5 30 48 25 500 25 Jul-42 Oct-42 1463 Japan
1463 Ta-Chi 3 Radar Surface Radar 0 7 30 48 35 500 35 Oct-42 Dec-42 1464 Japan
1464 Ta-Chi 4 Radar Surface Radar 0 2 20 75 45 500 45 Jan-43 Dec-43 1465 Japan
1465 Ta-Chi 7 Radar Surface Radar 0 3 30 145 55 500 45 Jan-43 0 Japan

A series of IJA units will begin to get Radar in March of 1942. The production is limited and the range does not even double a sound detector's range, but those few extra minutes can have an impact upon your CAP's lethality against bomber strikes. How do you tell which LCU will upgrade to Ta-Chi series radars? Only IJA units equip the device 1460's that will upgrade to Ta-Chi 1/2/3/4/7 radars. And only specific "types" of units:
� AA Bn
� AA Rgt
� JAAF Base Force's

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1467) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1467 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 53 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1467 Japan
1468 Ta-Chi 13 Radar Surface Radar 0 10 40 70 50 500 50 Jul-42 1469 Japan
1469 Ta-Chi 14 Radar Surface Radar 0 2 40 100 50 500 50 Jun-45 Jun-45 0 Japan

Note that even though it appears that 1467 should upgrade to Ta-Chi 13 and 14 radars, they do not in fact ever upgrade unless you update the scenario data using the update files Scen 1 Full Campaign which can be download by clicking the Attachment (1) From the first post in http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064.

Only one type of unit equips this type:

� JAAF AF Bn's

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1470) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1470 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 25 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1471 Japan
1471 Ta-Chi 6 Radar Surface Radar 0 2 100 78 45 500 45 Mar-42 0 Japan

Another type of unit gets radars starting in March of 1942, but these units are of limited utility since they are all static and in the home islands. Since these radars can ONLY fo to units that are static, you probably just want to turn upgrades on for each of the following base units:
� Chofu JAAF Base Force
� Gifu JAAF Base Force
� Hamamatsu JAAF Base Force
� Haranomachi JAAF Base Force
� Kakogawa JAAF Base Force
� Kashiwa JAAF Base Force
� Kogetsu JAAF Base Force
� Masuda JAAF Base Force
� Mito JAAF Base Force
� Tachiarai JAAF Base Force
� Waifu JAAF Base Force
� Tokyo Bay Fort *** ALSO gets 1473 sound detectors. To avoid those going to this unit. You may want to turn off upgrades for this unit prior to 6/1/42.
� Okinawa Naval Base Force
� Sasebo Naval Base Force

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1473) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1473 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 47 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1474 Japan
1474 Type 2 Radar Surface Radar 0 3 30 70 30 500 30 Jun-42 Jan-44 1475 Japan
1475 Type 3 Radar Surface Radar 0 3 30 100 50 500 50 Oct-43 0 Japan

It will take until June of 42 for IJN base units to begin to receive radars. The "JNAF AF Unit" LCU's will get them starting in June. With a production of only 3 per month, you will never get enough of these to outfit every AF unit you have.

(in reply to inqistor)

Post #: 3

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/17/2017 5:54:45 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Note that even though it appears that 1467 should upgrade to Ta-Chi 13 and 14 radars, they do not in fact ever upgrade unless you update the scenario data using the update files Scen 1 Full Campaign which can be download by clicking the Attachment (1) From the first post in http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064.

Only one type of unit equips this type:

� JAAF AF Bn's

Yeah, that's basically what I've said above and I referenced the same link. My questions still stand as I asked them. The update files include modified AI scripts. Will these wreck my current AI game if I use them? If that's the case I'd just as well not have the radar vs the AI. Also, as asked above, would it make a difference in a PBEM game whether both players had these files downloaded or not? As in the future I intend to have the update loaded.

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Post #: 4

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/17/2017 6:01:52 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
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From: LI, NY
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quote:

The fix is database devices problem, and only that exact file would repair this. AI have nothing to do with this.

That 'database fix' is incorporated within Andy Mac's AI script updates. Since this modifies the AI scripts my concern is does my game get 'lost' if its script is changed? My guess is it may for a period, until the current actions play out and the next 'operation' is invoked, but I'd rather not guess. Especially with all the time I have invested in my current and hopefully last AI game.

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Post #: 5

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/17/2017 7:35:29 PM

InfiniteMonkey

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Joined: 9/16/2016
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No according to threads on the AI, the AI is locked in at the start of the AI game and changes to the file do not impact running games. See Post #15 by Alfred in this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4317059 and the thread he linsk there.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 6

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/18/2017 7:49:37 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

OK, I appreciate your continued efforts to help, but I'm afraid you're still missing my point. From Alfred's post:

quote:

The AI file which contains the script is stored with the scenario file. It is not stored in the saved file.

The script is stored with the scenario file, not the save file. Therefore if I modify the stored scenario file with Andy's new file and it alters my game script I could be in the middle of executing a portion of the script that has been altered. It seems to me that this will alter what assets have/may be called on in said script thereby confusing/screwing up the AI. At least until that portion of the script runs out and a new operation is executed.

At any rate I've decided to attempt it and if something goes wrong I'll simply fall back to a saved file.

Thanks again for your assistance.

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Post #: 7

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 1:05:15 AM

PaxMondo

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Mmmm, I think there is some interpretation error occurring. I know that Alfred is correct, but I also know that there are many AI files, one is chosen (randomly, although not at equal odds, lower number files are more likely to be chosen) at the scenario start and it cannot be changed. period.

So, not professing to know exactly how game data is stored, I do not think you have any risk in updating the AI file. I don't think the game will impacted at all though. However, please update this post in 6 months with the results of your test here. I would be interested to know if the AI does get changed or not.

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Post #: 8

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 3:01:49 AM

InfiniteMonkey

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Joined: 9/16/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, I appreciate your continued efforts to help, but I'm afraid you're still missing my point. From Alfred's post:

quote:

The AI file which contains the script is stored with the scenario file. It is not stored in the saved file.

The script is stored with the scenario file, not the save file. Therefore if I modify the stored scenario file with Andy's new file and it alters my game script I could be in the middle of executing a portion of the script that has been altered. It seems to me that this will alter what assets have/may be called on in said script thereby confusing/screwing up the AI. At least until that portion of the script runs out and a new operation is executed.

At any rate I've decided to attempt it and if something goes wrong I'll simply fall back to a saved file.

Thanks again for your assistance.

Yeah, I know. Alfred's language is unclear. From a technical perspective, locking in an AI file requires copying the scripts to the save file or risk the kind of problems you worry about. To truly "lock in" the scripts, they have to be part of the save. Saying "I will always use aei001-14.dat" does not "lock in" anything. If someone updates or deletes the file, then things go bad in AI land.

Keep in mind that this discussion was in the context of creating an AI hack that would write AI scripts based upon information obtained from tracker and the various text files a turn generates. My idea was to

1. Use the -a$$um3 command line option to generate the AI debug file.
2. Identify the scripts that are running using the debug file and the task force names in tracker.
3. Modify the expired / untriggered scripts based upon the current game situation.

I tried the following as a test:

1. Open Scenario 1 in scenario editor
2. Change an AI script name Script "attack Bonnis" became "attack GMClever" (gee, I'm Clever...)
3. Save to open scen slot
4. Start a game and run first two turns (first turn does to generate LandDebug_411208.txt )

"444. - Attack Bonins GMClever, NOTACTIVE, target , ds 450401, de 450501, prev 00, bt 0, wait 0, taav 162, tdav 0, side Japanese ***************"

5. Save game
6. Exit game
7. Edit script 445 to change name to "IMCLEVERER" and save scenario files again.
8. Start game
9. Open saved game
10. Ran turn
11. Looked at LandDebug_411209.txt

"445. - Attack Bonins, NOTACTIVE, target , ds 450701, de 450801, prev 00, bt 0, wait 0, taav 162, tdav 0, side Japanese ***************
"

Name of script did not change. Therefore, the new AI file did not have an impact upon the saved game, as Alfred states.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 9

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 3:54:20 AM

Dili

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Joined: 9/10/2004
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Searchlights are loadcost sinks. Have no other propose than making the unit heavier.

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Post #: 10

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 5:39:53 AM

BBfanboy

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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Well, changing the scripts would change the scenario, and the first 25 scenario slots are immutable so you will have created a new scenario and will be unable to treat it as the same game with a script change while in progress.

Higher numbered scenarios are not sacrosanct so you could continue to call it the same scenario number, bearing in mind that you might get confused with having two versions of the same scenario number. Having made the change to script, I presume the game would proceed until the next time it hit a trigger date in the script and do whatever was scripted, including if it was a change you made.

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(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)

Post #: 11

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 8:43:25 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

Yeah, I know. Alfred's language is unclear. From a technical perspective, locking in an AI file requires copying the scripts to the save file or risk the kind of problems you worry about. To truly "lock in" the scripts, they have to be part of the save. Saying "I will always use aei001-14.dat" does not "lock in" anything. If someone updates or deletes the file, then things go bad in AI land.

The outcome would not be quite as catastrophic.

Scripts provide the strategic blueprint for the computer opponent to follow. No script means there would be no coherent strategy employed and therefore the computer play would be much weaker. However the true AI would still operate and it would respond to local specifics, very much more so in a defensive context.

The Japanese computer opponent not having a script for scenario 1 would be catastrophic as there would be no territorial expansion. Not having one for a 9 August 1945 scenario limited to only fighting the activated human Soviets, not so much.

Alfred

(in reply to InfiniteMonkey)

Post #: 12

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 8:55:31 AM

Alfred

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Andy Mac clearly stated on 22 March 2010 that a continuing game will take no notice of any subsequent script alterations. Michaelm on 11 November 2010 and jwilkerson on 27 November 2010 touched briefly on the things which can and which can't be updated in an ongoing game. Basically one can update "master data" which does not change during the course of a game but not "master data" which does change. Whilst a script itself does not change, it is really comprised of many lists or modules which themselves contain "data" which can alter (specific LCUs destroyed for example).

Read the posts from me, wdolson and Symon in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3779881&mpage=1&key=script&#3780741

for more specific details and appropriate links.

Alfred

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 13

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 12:25:44 PM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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Yeah, this is the thread I remember as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

... Here's how it works:

You launch the game and pick a scenario and the engine consults the AI files associated with that scenario and picks one. Totally random and not at player discretion. The engine keeps the selected AI file in it's pocket and lets the player make any and all moves they wish. But once a player hits the "yes" button, everything, and I do mean Everything, is cast in perma-crete.

The engine generates a Savegame file that has the initial selected AI scripts cast in stone. It can neither be edited nor adjusted. What you see is what you get. AndyMac has a thread somewhere that says what some AI numbers do historically, and what some numbers are for the, uh, different people among us.

Scenarios and Scripts are NOT portions of the executable. Scenarios and Scripts are separate from one another. ...

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Pax

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Post #: 14

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/19/2017 3:43:36 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Yeah, this is the thread I remember as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

... Here's how it works:

You launch the game and pick a scenario and the engine consults the AI files associated with that scenario and picks one. Totally random and not at player discretion. The engine keeps the selected AI file in it's pocket and lets the player make any and all moves they wish. But once a player hits the "yes" button, everything, and I do mean Everything, is cast in perma-crete.

The engine generates a Savegame file that has the initial selected AI scripts cast in stone. It can neither be edited nor adjusted. What you see is what you get. AndyMac has a thread somewhere that says what some AI numbers do historically, and what some numbers are for the, uh, different people among us.

Scenarios and Scripts are NOT portions of the executable. Scenarios and Scripts are separate from one another. ...

OK, this tells me the script is copied into the savegame file so it cannot be changed once the game starts. My comments above presumed the AI would not copy the script but read it from the scenario files as it hit each trigger date. That is clearly not the case.

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Post #: 15

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/20/2017 2:26:42 AM

PaxMondo

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Correct.

In terms of AI script development it would be SO nice if there was a flag to set to change this. As it is, testing mid and late war scripts is REALLY tedious.

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Post #: 16

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/20/2017 3:11:30 PM

Alfred

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A close read of the thread I provided shows that Symon felt it necessary to chime in and correct me after I had said that I thought the script was kept with the saved file. Wdolson's posts indicated he couldn't remember if the script was kept in the saved file or not. I don't believe the exact mechanism is as straight forward as has been suggested.

In classical WITP the scripts were hard coded. For AE the devs basically just made the scripts (aka modules or lists) accessible via the editor. I've never found any dev commentary (other than in mid 2008 they decided to rip out the AI) that they did anything more substantial to the legacy code to totally remove any vestiges of hard coding.

Alfred

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Post #: 17

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/21/2017 1:38:24 AM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

A close read of the thread I provided shows that Symon felt it necessary to chime in and correct me after I had said that I thought the script was kept with the saved file.� Wdolson's posts indicated he couldn't remember if the script was kept in the saved file or not.� I don't believe the exact mechanism is as straight forward as has been suggested.

In classical WITP the scripts were hard coded.� For AE the devs basically just made the scripts (aka modules or lists) accessible via the editor.� I've never found any dev commentary (other than in mid 2008 they decided to rip out the AI) that they did anything more substantial to the legacy code to totally remove any vestiges of hard coding.

Alfred�

Agreed, my sense is also that which is why I placed my caveat about the exact save format: I don't know it. However, all the comments that Andy has ever made publically and the few private ones he has shared with me all lead me to believe however it is done, it cannot be changed once a game is started.

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Post #: 18

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 12/26/2017 7:17:22 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

However, please update this post in 6 months with the results of your test here. I would be interested to know if the AI does get changed or not.

Have decided to leave well enough alone. I can live without the radars, especially in an AI game. Will update after I've finished with current game.

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Post #: 19

RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/4/2018 11:26:37 PM

durnedwolf

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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

Radar is an incredibly important factor in the outcome of both naval and air battles. It is therefore extremely important to understand when and where you get radar.

LCU Radars
The most basic detection used by Japanese forces are the Mark 1 eyeball and searchlights - which are basically big ass flashlights. :) These are modeled in game as search radars with the following device characteristics and never upgrade to anything else:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
715 Observer Squad Surface Radar 498 0 5 10 10 500 0 Dec-41 0 Japan
792 Searchlight (J) Surface Radar 470 15 30 0 1 0 2 Dec-41 0 Japan

315 land units in the game have "Observor Squad" (device 715) in their TOE:
� JAAF AF Bn's
� JAAF Base Force's
� Fort's
� JNAF AF Unit's

160 LCU's of various types have "Searchlight(J)" (device 792) in their TOE:

� JNAF AF Unit's
� AA Rgt's
� AA Bn's
� Fort's
� JNAF Base Force's

It is important to note that Searchlight (J) devices
� Have a Pen of 0
� Have a Range of 0
� Air Search Mode is unchecked

It is unclear if searchlights have any affect upon the game other than their load cost to transport the unit. Reliable sources say they are worthless in terms of in game effect other than adding to the load cost of a base unit.

For the JFB, all radar in LCU's upgrades from devices labeled "Sound Detectors (J)". However, there are actually 5 devices in the scenario editor with the name "Sound Detector (J)" and each upgrades differently (or not at all). The more difficult problem for managing these is actually that you cannot tell which LCU's have which "Sound Detector (J)" within the game. You have to look in the scenario editor to see.

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1460) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1460 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 88 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1461 Japan
1461 Ta-Chi 1 Radar Surface Radar 0 4 30 45 20 500 20 Mar-42 Jul-42 1462 Japan
1462 Ta-Chi 2 Radar Surface Radar 0 5 30 48 25 500 25 Jul-42 Oct-42 1463 Japan
1463 Ta-Chi 3 Radar Surface Radar 0 7 30 48 35 500 35 Oct-42 Dec-42 1464 Japan
1464 Ta-Chi 4 Radar Surface Radar 0 2 20 75 45 500 45 Jan-43 Dec-43 1465 Japan
1465 Ta-Chi 7 Radar Surface Radar 0 3 30 145 55 500 45 Jan-43 0 Japan

A series of IJA units will begin to get Radar in March of 1942. The production is limited and the range does not even double a sound detector's range, but those few extra minutes can have an impact upon your CAP's lethality against bomber strikes. How do you tell which LCU will upgrade to Ta-Chi series radars? Only IJA units equip the device 1460's that will upgrade to Ta-Chi 1/2/3/4/7 radars. And only specific "types" of units:
� AA Bn
� AA Rgt
� JAAF Base Force's

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1467) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1467 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 53 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1467 Japan
1468 Ta-Chi 13 Radar Surface Radar 0 10 40 70 50 500 50 Jul-42 1469 Japan
1469 Ta-Chi 14 Radar Surface Radar 0 2 40 100 50 500 50 Jun-45 Jun-45 0 Japan

Note that even though it appears that 1467 should upgrade to Ta-Chi 13 and 14 radars, they do not in fact ever upgrade unless you update the scenario data using the update files Scen 1 Full Campaign which can be download by clicking the Attachment (1) From the first post in http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3198064.

Only one type of unit equips this type:

� JAAF AF Bn's

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1470) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1470 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 25 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1471 Japan
1471 Ta-Chi 6 Radar Surface Radar 0 2 100 78 45 500 45 Mar-42 0 Japan

Another type of unit gets radars starting in March of 1942, but these units are of limited utility since they are all static and in the home islands. Since these radars can ONLY fo to units that are static, you probably just want to turn upgrades on for each of the following base units:
� Chofu JAAF Base Force
� Gifu JAAF Base Force
� Hamamatsu JAAF Base Force
� Haranomachi JAAF Base Force
� Kakogawa JAAF Base Force
� Kashiwa JAAF Base Force
� Kogetsu JAAF Base Force
� Masuda JAAF Base Force
� Mito JAAF Base Force
� Tachiarai JAAF Base Force
� Waifu JAAF Base Force
� Tokyo Bay Fort *** ALSO gets 1473 sound detectors. To avoid those going to this unit. You may want to turn off upgrades for this unit prior to 6/1/42.
� Okinawa Naval Base Force
� Sasebo Naval Base Force

"Sound Detector(J)" (device 1473) upgrade and unit recognition:

ID Name Type Active Build Load Range Effect Pen Acc Avail End Upgrade Side
1473 Sound Detector (J) Surface Radar 47 10 20 25 10 500 10 Dec-41 1474 Japan
1474 Type 2 Radar Surface Radar 0 3 30 70 30 500 30 Jun-42 Jan-44 1475 Japan
1475 Type 3 Radar Surface Radar 0 3 30 100 50 500 50 Oct-43 0 Japan

It will take until June of 42 for IJN base units to begin to receive radars. The "JNAF AF Unit" LCU's will get them starting in June. With a production of only 3 per month, you will never get enough of these to outfit every AF unit you have.

Hi InfiniteMonkey - I'm doing some searching - in fact I just managed to find this post using the sight's search features, which are very-very crude... So I'm hoping that you or someone can tell me what the numbers mean in the fields listed as Acc, Effect, and Range. I was looking at the info posted on the Plane & Weapon Database\Electronics screen. An Observer Squad has a Range of 10k, Acc of 0, and an Effect of 10. I just don't understand what all of that means or how the game uses those numbers to help improve the DL or expected time that enemy AC will arrive. Do you by any chance know this info?

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RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/5/2018 7:47:52 AM

Hortlund

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If I have radar in my AA Rgts, they will help with cap-intercepts in the same hex, correct?

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RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/5/2018 1:46:37 PM

Barb

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Yup, every radar device in hex should help to detect incoming raid.

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RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/5/2018 4:42:21 PM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Yup, every radar device in hex should help to detect incoming raid.

From what Alfred said once, I get the impression that the detection improvement is not cumulative with more radars. More radars just raise the chances of detection and probably give more chances of longer range detection (which affects intercept time) but the detection level number gets the same boost from one radar as from several radars. At least that is how I understood it - D/L and detection distance are different calculations.

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RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/6/2018 6:49:33 AM

Barb

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Yup, but the raid is making roll against each radar device in hex in turn. Thus you get 1 radar with range 160, and 2 radars with range 40, you are making one Detection Roll each at 160,120,80 miles and three checks at 40 miles (+/- some modifiers). If you have 10 radars with 40 miles, you are making 10 rolls at 40 miles.

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RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/6/2018 10:58:24 AM

LargeSlowTarget

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There is no detection at 160 or 120 or 80 miles - in fact detection does not reach beyond the hex the radar is in. Radar with ranges beyond the 40 mile hex will simply get additional detection rolls at 40 miles. Michael says.

See recent thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4447170 which points to the FAQ

quote:

7.4.1.1 AIR UNITS �RADAR:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2251019

While radar can have a range in excess of the 40NM hex, it does not extend outside the hex.

Instead, if the radar has a range of more than 40NM, it gets a number of extra chances to detect the raid equal to the number of hexes it could have reached. (range of 120NM would get 3 chances to detect raid, while a 40NM radar only the one).

Radar detects Airplanes. The longer the range the sooner it does so. The higher the effect the more accurate the data and the better your CAP will perform. There really isn't much more to it.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 3/6/2018 11:05:21 AM >

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RE: Japanese Ta Chi 13 radar - 3/12/2018 7:31:05 PM

rustysi

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quote:

as Japan do not produce any device, until actually used for upgrade.

Just noticed this, and I'm here to say its not entirely true. I in fact do have the Ta Chi 13 radar device accumulating it the pools. In addition to that I have a 37mmAAA device doing the same, although I can find no unit that uses it. Both devices do have a monthly production rate in the proper column and maybe this has something to do with it. My thoughts on this are that they'll be used later in the game. IOW its produced at the monthly rate until said time as a unit will use it. In the case of the radar in my game that'll be never because its not in the data base to do so. As said I'll fix it after my current game.

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