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How do you manage defeat? (psychologically)

 
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How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/4/2018 10:35:34 PM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline 		Dear fellow gamers,

I have a problem with gaming in general, perhaps veterans can give some tips about how to manage this. Games for me are only fun if I'm winning!! If I'm losing, the game is not fun at all. In PBEM, I have to drag myself to play the next turn if I'm not doing well in the game. This causes delays, I'm sorry to say. It's ridiculous, but I cannot help it!! I play my turn in the end, of course (I hate quitting and find it despicable) but it's slower.

Another problem. If I'm losing in a certain game, I get anxious, and sometimes (I know this is absurd, but there you are) I wake up in the middle of the night worrying about some game!!

I'd be grateful for any advice on how to manage defeat, or simply not clearly winning while playing some game.

Cheers,
Post #: 1
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/4/2018 11:06:04 PM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		It's a game, not a cancer treatment. Losing a game won't kill you.

_____________________________

If the Earth was flat, cats would of knocked everything off of it long ago.

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 2
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/4/2018 11:07:34 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Well, I don't play much multiplayer, and when I do it is with someone I truly like, and take pleasure even if he is winning.

Single player I do not have the patience to try a scenario 10 times just to win. I will mod, use trainer, use Cheat Engine, whatever, to get through that scenario. Most of these games I avoid, as they are not historical based and artificially made difficult.

I am actually happy to lose to a decent AI, but have my limits. I will mod and cheat and experiment if it furthers my enjoyment of the game. There is enough stress in life, so no way am I bringing that into the gaming world. But yes, maybe people who are super-competitive and really take this stuff seriously, it could be frustrating. And there is nothing wrong with being competitive.

Take some of the Ageod games. They are hard enough even to understand how to play sometimes. So I take great pleasure in modding myself an advantage and seeing how things turn out. This is something a real historical-minded player would abhor. On the other hand, it is often not about winning, but how enjoyable the game is to play. If I'm playing Command Modern Naval Air Operations, I always play in "editor" mode and experiment. Winning the scenario is the last thing on my mind.

However, I admit to get frustrated with some consistently bad, or seemingly "unfair" internal dice rolls. In those instances, I am tempted to cheat through it when possible.

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 3
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/4/2018 11:23:01 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		Execute a few subordinates and have my aide-de-camp hold some of my phone calls.

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 4
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/4/2018 11:50:45 PM   
pkpowers

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 12/12/2000
From: midland,TX
Status: offline 		sorry, but you should just resign , as in chess ; I find players who play slower when losing are , as you say , "despicable" ; poor sportsmanship just dragging it on to the bitter end...tis just a game...

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 5
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 12:07:43 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		In order to overcome your fear of losing, you must lose as many games as possible (preferably to me).

(in reply to pkpowers)
Post #: 6
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 1:39:17 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		If you use your turns to try and implement different tactics. Use to full advantage the capabilities of your units, how to use smoke wisely. Learning these things while playing will make it more of a challenge to get better.

Playing Pbem since 2005 at least 30 a year. I had (have a hurdle) to overcome. I had (have)an ingrained tendency to move forward aggressively (little tactics used) with a general plan but had very general idea of units capabilities.
Slowly, I began to take notice how I had this tendency to be aggressive in battle(not smart in battle). I pissed myself off numerous times when I battled I couldn't let go of that tendency. It has taken me 13 years of constant loosing to slowly let go of aggressive blind attack in favor of better tactics.

When you begin to realize the game is not going in your favor resign yourself to it. Make a mental note to yourself to not make game about loss but (tell yourself) I'm going to pay attention to how to use tactics better for next game.
Ingrained, tendencies are hard change takes repeated losses to break it from my personal experience.

< Message edited by Zap -- 3/5/2018 2:26:21 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 7
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 8:53:34 AM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralFerraro

Dear fellow gamers,

I have a problem with gaming in general, perhaps veterans can give some tips about how to manage this. Games for me are only fun if I'm winning!! If I'm losing, the game is not fun at all. In PBEM, I have to drag myself to play the next turn if I'm not doing well in the game. This causes delays, I'm sorry to say. It's ridiculous, but I cannot help it!! I play my turn in the end, of course (I hate quitting and find it despicable) but it's slower.

Another problem. If I'm losing in a certain game, I get anxious, and sometimes (I know this is absurd, but there you are) I wake up in the middle of the night worrying about some game!!

I'd be grateful for any advice on how to manage defeat, or simply not clearly winning while playing some game.

Cheers,


Good question. Well we all have good times and bad times and not only learning from our mistakes. We all know it is just a game, but some take it too seriously and really going into rage when they lose. Seen enough of that on youtube. Just have to learn how to cope with your feelings and don't feel depressed. When something is bothering you, find something positive to do.

_____________________________


(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 8
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 9:48:20 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		Losing happens, well maybe for you men :) I always win :)

Actually, nothing annoys me more, than winning when I realize the AI just did something inexcusable dumb. It ruins the win. Sort of like playing a 6-year-old girl, hard to get excited about beating her.

And I sure hate winning when a guy merely let me win to "pity the girl player" you so don't want to do that to me.

There are some games where the AI opponent is simply unable to play competitively. Those aren't 'wins'. A win never exists when you couldn't really lose.

Some games are precisely like chess though. Battle Academy is a good example. If you lose, you lose. Just accept the loss and move on.

Some games, they take soo much invested time to play out. I refuse to set up The Longest Day board game, and then surrender the landing to the dice. Too much work to set that game up just to throw away the effort in 5 minutes. Not to mention the game is already forcing random chance on you, as the game beaches all happened by chance, to begin with. I went to great efforts to research the historical losses in games terms for the end of D-Day+1 so I could move past that one moment in the game. Now I don't mind rolling the dice for a simpler design effort like Fortress Europa.

I've played Risk at a dollar per army lost. Rather a fun way to gamble :)

If you can't handle losing, chances are you are a poor winner too.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to Rising-Sun)
Post #: 9
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 10:46:22 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralFerraro

Dear fellow gamers,

I have a problem with gaming in general, perhaps veterans can give some tips about how to manage this. Games for me are only fun if I'm winning!! If I'm losing, the game is not fun at all. In PBEM, I have to drag myself to play the next turn if I'm not doing well in the game. This causes delays, I'm sorry to say. It's ridiculous, but I cannot help it!! I play my turn in the end, of course (I hate quitting and find it despicable) but it's slower.

Another problem. If I'm losing in a certain game, I get anxious, and sometimes (I know this is absurd, but there you are) I wake up in the middle of the night worrying about some game!!

I'd be grateful for any advice on how to manage defeat, or simply not clearly winning while playing some game.

Cheers,


Early ending of a PBEM I think depends on the situation. If you have picked the side that has an early advantage - such as France in AGEOD's French and Indian Wars (WiA) or the axis in WiTE - then I really don't have much time for players who disappear after they have finished their period of dominance. At the least have a chat as to whether the situation is worth playing out.

A grim desperate defeat can be fun and very instructive. I lost a game of WiA but had one glorious summer when I completely out manouvered my opponent. Still lost but it was worth it.

Equally in losing you might find something interesting. In a game of the American Revolution (WiA again) as I was losing badly as the Americans I put together a desperate defense of Pittsburg. Next game I planned this as a backstop, built up supplies, reinforced the region and it gave me a solid base for a victory in another game.

But can agree, esp in WEGO games that you wake up plotting moves and responses. I still have fond memories of a 3 player Revolution Under Siege where everyone was pulling the most underhand tricks they could ... lost that one too.

_____________________________


(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 10
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 11:30:49 AM   
MrsWargamer


Posts: 1655
Joined: 6/18/2014
Status: offline 		I concur on those playing games where the opponent has all the initial fun in the opening of a game.

Play the Germans in the opening moves and do well, fine. Do poorly and quit, you will be playing the Allies next game, or you just burned a human opponent.

I won't spend my time as someone's willing punching bag. And I'm so not alive just to promote someone with a weak ego.

_____________________________

Wargame, 05% of the time.
Play with Barbies 05% of the time.
Play with Legos 10% of the time.
Build models 20% of the time
Shopping 60% of the time.
Exlains why I buy em more than I play em.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 11
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 12:06:59 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Whether you win or lose playing a good game, consider doing a quick AAR for yourself. Learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of your opponent. Sometimes it does boil down to a few very unlucky die rolls, but even in those cases consider why you got into those gambles rather than doing something else. Sometimes you need to understand rules better. And most times you need to take some risks because overly conservative play usually doesn't win, but again understand the difference between a risk and a gamble. But keep playing and have fun!

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
Post #: 12
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 1:36:52 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline 		Once I have determined I'm going to lose I turn the game into a lesson of learning. Take into account moves that caused me to lose and keep playing to see the end game results of the way to close a battle down to the last turn.

Resigning only shows defeatism. Continuing to play shows you're willing to learn from others. We all can't win all the time every time. Even the great Khasperov (sp) lost chess matches.

Now, for me what I can't stand is a gloating winner or a rub it in your face type. Those are just bad players in any game. One should never gloat over a victory and rub it in another's face but, congratulate the player on a game well played whether won or lost. That builds friendships and gaming character.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 13
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 1:48:53 PM   
Capitaine

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pkpowers

sorry, but you should just resign , as in chess ; I find players who play slower when losing are , as you say , "despicable" ; poor sportsmanship just dragging it on to the bitter end...tis just a game...

I agree with this. While premature surrender is poor sportsmanship, letting an obvious lost cause drag on till the bitter end is as well and is depressing. Someone who's winning and insists upon full completion is also a poor sport.

(in reply to pkpowers)
Post #: 14
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 1:58:02 PM   
pkpowers

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 12/12/2000
From: midland,TX
Status: offline 		I run into those "dragging the feet" losers in a lot of online chess tourneys. 8 moves a day when they are winning, 1 move per week in a losing battle...clock/time management is allowed in the rules, but poor ethics..

(in reply to Capitaine)
Post #: 15
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 2:44:47 PM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline 		You can not win all the time, there will always be stronger than you, that's life.
On the other hand, you can fight again and again, do not let go, fall and get up to fight again and again until you die if you have to.
And once in paradise or hell, get up and beat again and again ...

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 16
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 3:02:34 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Human vs human games are simply not made for you (nothing wrong with that) ergo make your opponent and yourself a favour and stay away from them.

Unless you can find a cure. If that is possible in the first place.

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 17
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 5:43:38 PM   
Kuokkanen

 

Posts: 3545
Joined: 4/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

And I sure hate winning when a guy merely let me win to "pity the girl player" you so don't want to do that to me.

If ever again a guy tells you something like that, just respond with him being a sore loser throwing off excuses. Most likely the case.

_____________________________

You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

MekWars

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
Post #: 18
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 7:53:22 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		Don't like to loose?

Don't loose

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to Kuokkanen)
Post #: 19
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/5/2018 8:49:58 PM   
E

 

Posts: 1247
Joined: 9/20/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralFerraro
I'd be grateful for any advice on how to manage defeat, or simply not clearly winning while playing some game.

Simply realize that wins or losses do not matter. Family matters. Games do not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
Don't like to loose?
Don't loose

Loose is a good thing, when wearing a noose. But, if he tightens up his game so that it is not loose, he will no longer lose, but he will win?

_____________________________

"Lose" is the opposite of "win." "Loose" is the opposite of "tight."

Friends Don't Let Friends Facebook.

Twitter is for... (wait for it!) ...Twits!

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 20
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 1:40:56 AM   
GeneralFerraro


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/4/2017
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the very interesting answers!! Although I got a bit of a scolding also, I think it's good to talk about this kind of issue. I feel much more confident now about not getting so absurdly obsessed with winning or losing.

(in reply to E)
Post #: 21
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 1:43:38 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralFerraro

Thank you all for the very interesting answers!! Although I got a bit of a scolding also, I think it's good to talk about this kind of issue. I feel much more confident now about not getting so absurdly obsessed with winning or losing.


Wanna play a game?

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 22
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 9:36:18 AM   
rico21


Posts: 2990
Joined: 3/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralFerraro

Thank you all for the very interesting answers!! Although I got a bit of a scolding also, I think it's good to talk about this kind of issue. I feel much more confident now about not getting so absurdly obsessed with winning or losing.


Wanna play a game?

In Hell or Paradise?

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
Post #: 23
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 10:54:16 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Just because you are losing now doesn't mean you will lose. I guess I'm too optimistic and always think I can recover so never really believe I'm losing until its over. Then I think "if only I'd done x/y/z, things would have been different". Winning players get over confident. I've seen plenty of games that looked lost turned around. You can also learn a lot by playing through a losing game.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to rico21)
Post #: 24
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 11:18:18 AM   
Jevhaddah


Posts: 626
Joined: 11/24/2005
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		In real life as in gaming, I learn from defeat and move on. Losing is part of life.

Cheers

Jev

_____________________________

I am really quite mad yoo know!

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Post #: 25
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 12:07:31 PM   
Capitaine

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Losing happens, well maybe for you men :) I always win :)

Actually, nothing annoys me more, than winning when I realize the AI just did something inexcusable dumb. It ruins the win. Sort of like playing a 6-year-old girl, hard to get excited about beating her.

And I sure hate winning when a guy merely let me win to "pity the girl player" you so don't want to do that to me.

There are some games where the AI opponent is simply unable to play competitively. Those aren't 'wins'. A win never exists when you couldn't really lose.

Some games are precisely like chess though. Battle Academy is a good example. If you lose, you lose. Just accept the loss and move on.

Some games, they take soo much invested time to play out. I refuse to set up The Longest Day board game, and then surrender the landing to the dice. Too much work to set that game up just to throw away the effort in 5 minutes. Not to mention the game is already forcing random chance on you, as the game beaches all happened by chance, to begin with. I went to great efforts to research the historical losses in games terms for the end of D-Day+1 so I could move past that one moment in the game. Now I don't mind rolling the dice for a simpler design effort like Fortress Europa.

I've played Risk at a dollar per army lost. Rather a fun way to gamble :)

If you can't handle losing, chances are you are a poor winner too.

MrsWargamer, I don't know your background, but I can't express enough how great it is to hear a woman say and do things exactly in the manner many of us men say and do with these games. Nearly all women I know who've even been aware of these games just do not or cannot fathom their allure in any way. You are quite the unicorn.

(in reply to MrsWargamer)
Post #: 26
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 12:15:16 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline 		in my games, i tend to cry alot, then again i loose in so many, im kind of use to it now

(in reply to Capitaine)
Post #: 27
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 7:34:18 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		OP, I understand where you are coming from, but I think for me it's a bit more complicated.
- Losing can be fun if the game is close, or if there is reason to believe there is chance of success in the future. Games like that I continue with.
- It is not fun at all when losing by a large margin and where there is no real grounds for hope. If the Allies thrash Japan in the spring of 1942, or Russia outfights Germany in 1941, then there seems little reason to continue playing a long campaign that can only end one way.

I've often thought wargames could do with some form of adjustment mechanism (when playing for fun rather than for competition). I've done this in real world games:
- forgetting the touch-move rule in Chess
- ignoring the foul line when bowling
- letting whoever buys the most beer stand closest to the darts board

and seen it in video games:
- course time limits that slowly increase each time a player fails
- adjusting AI skills to match the player
- more luck for players at the back of a race

So why can't wargames do the same? One previous Pacific War idea I had was that if for example Allies badly beat Japan in 1942, then lots of Allied scheduled reinforcements are removed to fight the Axis. In the long term it helps the Allies as it frees up more Allied troops in 1944, but it could keep the game more competitive in 1943.


(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 28
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/6/2018 7:50:00 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		"Lose" is the opposite of "win." "Loose" is the opposite of "tight."

I lose

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to Mobeer)
Post #: 29
RE: How do you manage defeat? (psychologically) - 3/7/2018 12:57:03 AM   
redcoat


Posts: 1035
Joined: 8/31/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

How do you manage defeat? (psychologically)






Attachment (1)

(in reply to GeneralFerraro)
Post #: 30
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